HS2 construction updates

[Ianno87]

Not without knocking down a tranche of properties in Wells House Road (and a new bridge) for the approach tracks
Time to let this go - a Chiltern line platform at Old Oak just isn't going to happen no matter how hard we might wish for it. (Though that's a statement that may not age well!)
I'd guess it's just possible they could squeeze in a platform on the site of the old "halt" to the south of Wells House Road triangle but that's about it.

Worth noting as well, as much as we love trains and track on here, there are other valuable uses of inner London land.

Which also benefit the railway in bringing more passengers in. Especially where there is capacity to receive those passengers, such as a major interchange station right next door.

 

[swt_passenger]

Network Rail seem to be suggesting that a station at Old Oak Common (for non HS2 services) might not even happen.

I’m also interested to know what the source for that is.

 

[Mintona]

I’m also interested to know what the source for that is.

I saw it on Twitter this morning but after some searching I’m struggling to find it now, so it’s possible the author has deleted and/or I got the wrong end of the stick. Apologies.

 

[Roast Veg]

I'd be particularly surprised if the best connection between HS2 and Heathrow didn't come to pass.

 

[Yindee8191]

I’m also interested to know what the source for that is.

I believe that refers to this article https://www.newcivilengineer.com/la...eal-but-warns-it-may-never-happen-29-09-2021/

Network Rail has put contractors on notice for a £200M project at Old Oak Common station – but admitted it may not ever happen.
The infrastructure operator published an official notice saying the rail systems design and build package at the West London High Speed 2 hub would be put to market in November.

But it added that the works “may not be instructed at all” and stressed that supplier participation in procurement events was “undertaken at their own risk”.

Not sure if it was cleared up as just part of regular contract-speak or if there’s a genuine threat to the GWML station.

 

[swt_passenger]

I believe that refers to this article https://www.newcivilengineer.com/la...eal-but-warns-it-may-never-happen-29-09-2021/

Not sure if it was cleared up as just part of regular contract-speak or if there’s a genuine threat to the GWML station.

Thanks for finding it for us - whatever it really means!

 

[Ianno87]

Not sure if it was cleared up as just part of regular contract-speak or if there’s a genuine threat to the GWML station.

I'm hoping contract-speak and nothing more. The GWML station would be a very bizarre thing to delete at such a late stage, given the proportion of HS2 passengers expected to change onto Crossrail.

 

[barbette165]

It's just contract speak, I often see similar statements in tenders I work on (in the telecoms field). It's just avoiding giving any commitment that one of the submissions will be accepted.

 

[Yindee8191]

It's just contract speak, I often see similar statements in tenders I work on (in the telecoms field). It's just avoiding giving any commitment that one of the submissions will be accepted.

That’s good to hear. It did seem like an incredibly stupid idea to get rid of the GWML station, especially considering the initial opening is just going to be OOC - Birmingham.

 

[Ianno87]

For starters, if it's NR procuring it, that will in itself be dependent on DfT releasing the funds, so NR need a "get out" if this doesn't happen.

 

[mr_jrt]

But there has to be a limit on ‘passive provision’ based on opportunity cost vs likelihood of future benefit. You could passively* provide for all sorts of things, but if the cost of doing so is significant now, and the benefit is relatively small, in the future, and uncertain, then a decision needs to be made.

*passive provision is often a misnomer. In its truest sense passive provision means not doing anything that might in future hinder future development, so long as it doesn’t cost anything extra. In this case, it would almost certainly have to be ‘active’ provision, ie something would have to be done to allow for it in future.

Oh, absolutely. In this specific example, laying out the open area between the GWML and HS2 so that you could fit a pair of platforms and the approach lines would fall into that remit in my mind, though. You're not actively building a pair of suspiciously platform-shaped raised areas and some shelters that look suspiciously like canopies, you're just not plonking anything more substantial than a flowerbed or a path in the way of where they would have to go.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

"Florence" has completed the first mile of the Chiltern tunnels.
#chilterntunnel - Twitter Search / Twitter

The first enormous 2,000 tonne tunnelling machine passed the one mile mark this week during the construction of the first tunnels for HS2 - Britain’s new high speed rail link between London, Birmingham and the north.

The regular progress report on TBM positions hasn't been updated since September 3, but Florence must be past the 1 mile mark (1609m).
The Twitter link contains photos and a video fly-through of the completed section.

Edit: The TBM positions were updated today (Oct 1).
Florence is at 1641m, Cecilia 1010m.
In Your Area Map | High Speed 2 (hs2.org.uk)

 

[yorkie]

Can we keep this thread dedicated to HS2 construction updates please; I've just had to move some posts to the Speculative Ideas section.

Also if anyone is making reference to any external source or has any news to post here, we ask that a link to, and quote from, a relevant source be provided please.

Thanks

 

[Ethan1852]

Current TBM Status As of 1st October 2021

TBM Name	Tunnelling Status	Launch date*^1	Distance Tunnelled*^2	Distance Remaining*^2	Days Since Launch
Florence	Tunnelling	13 May 2021	1641 Meters	14.35 Km	142 Days
Cecilia	Tunnelling	1 July 2021	1010 Meters	14.99 Km	93 Days

*^1 Might not be 100% correct. Based on HS2 Press releases.
*^2 Information from https://www.hs2.org.uk/in-your-area/map/#16/51.6130/-0.5241/filter=hs2-stations,hs2-network. Correct as of 1st October 2021.

 

[Jozhua]

Heard the Colne Valley Viaduct is under construction! Nice to see the project picking up the pace.

I hope they sort out what they are going to do with the Euston platforms - In that they should stick with 18 been as they are spending £100bn anyway... saves knocking stuff down to add it back in the future.

Integrated rail plan should help establish what is going to happen with the Eastern leg as well. I will be disappointed if they go for the Western/NPR solution, because it will be another poor deal for the East Midlands - but the region I'm sure is used to being overlooked anyway... No doubt the local NIMBYs will be happy though!

Current TBM Status As of 1st October 2021

TBM Name	Tunnelling Status	Launch date*^1	Distance Tunnelled*^2	Distance Remaining*^2	Days Since Launch
Florence	Tunnelling	13 May 2021	1641 Meters	14.35 Km	142 Days
Cecilia	Tunnelling	1 July 2021	1010 Meters	14.99 Km	93 Days

*^1 Might not be 100% correct. Based on HS2 Press releases.
*^2 Information from https://www.hs2.org.uk/in-your-area/map/#16/51.6130/-0.5241/filter=hs2-stations,hs2-network. Correct as of 1st October 2021.

How long will the boring take? I've heard three years. Will they be on track at this speed? Seems like they may end up averaging a higher speed as they progress further on.

 

[stuu]

The tunnel boring is going to take about three years. The estimate was based on averaging 15m per day, they start slowly and speed up. They are doing pretty much that rate now

 

[edwin_m]

I hope they sort out what they are going to do with the Euston platforms - In that they should stick with 18 been as they are spending £100bn anyway... saves knocking stuff down to add it back in the future.

The plan is for 11 platforms, maybe reduced to 10, to handle 18 trains per hour. Nobody has proposed 18 platforms as far as I'm aware.

 

[Jozhua]

The plan is for 11 platforms, maybe reduced to 10, to handle 18 trains per hour. Nobody has proposed 18 platforms as far as I'm aware.

My mistake! Well they should stick with 11

The tunnel boring is going to take about three years. The estimate was based on averaging 15m per day, they start slowly and speed up. They are doing pretty much that rate now

Cheers - yeah that makes sense! I guess it will slightly change depending on ground conditions as encountered as well.

 

[hwl]

My mistake! Well they should stick with 11


Cheers - yeah that makes sense! I guess it will slightly change depending on ground conditions as encountered as well.

While they have said 3 years it should be less in reality. The start is always slow especially when launching a pair but the new TBM are (some of?) the first to have a new concrete tunnel segment handling system that is quicker/safer/more productive than the older more manual way of doing things which should make the progress rate faster as the stopped period while the assemble a new ring and aren't pushing forward is quicker, the more public timing estimates are based on conservative productivity improvements. The steady state progress rate is already on track for completion in faster than 3 years. The segment manufacture rate could well end up being the limiting factor.
In terms of extraction they use a slurry system where the material is piped out rather than a mix of conveyors or narrow gauge railway so the logistic challenges won't be as large as some previous schemes.

 

[Bald Rick]

The segment manufacture rate could well end up being the limiting factor.

I suspect it will be segment delivery to the business end when the tunnel is approaching completion. Getting them 8-10 miles through the tunnel will take rather longer than it does now!

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

The tunnel boring is going to take about three years. The estimate was based on averaging 15m per day, they start slowly and speed up. They are doing pretty much that rate now

TBM progress in September was less than previously posted, at 13.25 and 10.71 metres per day (28 days).
This could be for any number of reasons, from ground conditions to production delays to staff shortages.
The Channel Tunnel TBMs stopped now and again for a week or so for TBM repairs and upgrades, so it's not a uniform pattern.
The next main critical construction point is the start of the 13km Northolt drives for the next pair of TBMs from Old Oak.
The aim is for all the TBMs to finish boring around the same time in 2024.

 

[jfowkes]

I suspect it will be segment delivery to the business end when the tunnel is approaching completion. Getting them 8-10 miles through the tunnel will take rather longer than it does now!

It's never been clear to me how the segments are delivered to the machine and how they're handled when they get there. All the videos and pictures I've seen show the machine is a really tight packed space that doesn't seem big enough to store/manoeuvre many more than a few tunnel segments. I guess it must be a "just in time" kind of thing in terms of delivery to the machine.

 

[hwl]

I suspect it will be segment delivery to the business end when the tunnel is approaching completion. Getting them 8-10 miles through the tunnel will take rather longer than it does now!

Agreed that it gets worse the longer it gets but they aren't trying to transport spoil back in the other direction too on wheel vehicles.

For 15m per day pace that requires 3.75 deliveries from the tunnel service vehicle (1 ring worth of segments at time) so @ 6 hours per return trip (1 vehicle per tunnel) shouldn't be pushing it, even allowing a very generous for 1 hour loading or unloading at each end still only needs the vehicles to move at brisk walking pace at the far end of the tunnel.

 

[Bald Rick]

It's never been clear to me how the segments are delivered to the machine and how they're handled when they get there. All the videos and pictures I've seen show the machine is a really tight packed space that doesn't seem big enough to store/manoeuvre many more than a few tunnel segments. I guess it must be a "just in time" kind of thing in terms of delivery to the machine.

A complete ring is transported from the segment storage compound near the tunnel mouth to the head of the TBM on a ‘Multi Service Vehicle’. This is a purpose built, double ended* vehicle that holds segments, but can also transport the tunnellers, and the other equipment to and from the TBM (takes in pipesork to extend the slurry system, ducting for air, cabling for power, spare parts, and of course all the non-tunnelling waste generated.

*double ended in that it can be driven from either end; no room to turn in the tunnel of course.

I don’t know what the speed limit for these vehicles in the tunnel is, but if it is, say, 20mph it will be taking half an hour to get each way when the tunnel is nearly finished.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 10 Oct 2021 ==

For 15m per day pace that requires 3.75 deliveries from the tunnel service vehicle (1 ring worth of segments at time) so @ 6 hours per return trip (1 vehicle per tunnel) shouldn't be pushing it, even allowing a very generous for 1 hour loading or unloading at each end still only needs the vehicles to move at brisk walking pace at the far end of the tunnel.

I thought each ring was 2m worth of tunnel (7 segments, 28 m circumference of tunnel, 4mx2m in size).

7.5 deliveries a day, but I agree 3 hours should be enough. But that extra hour or so for the transport will make it tighter.

 

[swt_passenger]

It's never been clear to me how the segments are delivered to the machine and how they're handled when they get there. All the videos and pictures I've seen show the machine is a really tight packed space that doesn't seem big enough to store/manoeuvre many more than a few tunnel segments. I guess it must be a "just in time" kind of thing in terms of delivery to the machine.

I think the animations in this video give a reasonable idea. There’s effectively a slot through the rear section of the TBM “tail” that the segments can pass through, (on the multi service vehicle @Bald Rick mentioned), then they’re rotated 90° and passed forward underneath the front part of the TBM, until they get to the erector.

 

[Yindee8191]

TBM progress in September was less than previously posted, at 13.25 and 10.71 metres per day (28 days).
This could be for any number of reasons, from ground conditions to production delays to staff shortages.
The Channel Tunnel TBMs stopped now and again for a week or so for TBM repairs and upgrades, so it's not a uniform pattern.
The next main critical construction point is the start of the 13km Northolt drives for the next pair of TBMs from Old Oak.
The aim is for all the TBMs to finish boring around the same time in 2024.

Do you (or anyone else for that matter) happen to know when the Northolt TBMs are expected to launch?

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Do you (or anyone else for that matter) happen to know when the Northolt TBMs are expected to launch?

I think I've seen reference to "early in the new year", but not really sure.
It all depends on progress with the Old Oak site down to the tunnel level, and I've got no feel for that.
It's not that long since the station construction work started.
The Euston tunnels will also be bored from there, but they are shorter and are not critical to Phase 1 completion.

 

[RPM]

TBM progress in September was less than previously posted, at 13.25 and 10.71 metres per day (28 days).
This could be for any number of reasons, from ground conditions to production delays to staff shortages.
The Channel Tunnel TBMs stopped now and again for a week or so for TBM repairs and upgrades, so it's not a uniform pattern.
The next main critical construction point is the start of the 13km Northolt drives for the next pair of TBMs from Old Oak.
The aim is for all the TBMs to finish boring around the same time in 2024.

I thought the Northolt tunnels were being bored in the southbound direction from West Ruislip?

 

[hwl]

I thought each ring was 2m worth of tunnel (7 segments, 28 m circumference of tunnel, 4mx2m in size).

7.5 deliveries a day, but I agree 3 hours should be enough. But that extra hour or so for the transport will make it tighter.

Oops they are 2m (mental arithmetic minus coffee never a good idea). The cargo MSVs have two trailer segments one set up for segments and the other for grout and other supplies. They can/could have a third trailer segment added.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 10 Oct 2021 ==

Do you (or anyone else for that matter) happen to know when the Northolt TBMs are expected to launch?

Delivery of the segments from the factory on the Isle of Grain to West Ruislip is due to start in January which suggests Feb or March tunnelling start.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

I thought the Northolt tunnels were being bored in the southbound direction from West Ruislip?

Yes I got the direction wrong.
The state of the Old Oak site is not critical then.