How much does a wiring team cost, and how quick can you create one from scratch?

[Meerkat]

Obviously I only expect a VERY ballpark number.
I was just pondering what kind of numbers we are talking about if the UKG/Treasury said
”We accept rolling electrification, we accept your list of priorities, and rather than fund individual projects we will fund the equivalent of X wiring teams (design, infrastructure, wiring, the lot) for ten years and it’s up to you Network Rail to get the most out of them, and keep them working”.
Would Network Rail create its own in such a situation or carry on using contractors?

The second part is based around a hypothetical that the number of teams the government was willing to fund was more than currently exist (at a sensible price). Could they create an “electrification academy” like the tunnelling one in East London and increase the supply in a couple of years? I am guessing that design is the tricky one for that - would that be a postgrad “apprenticeship” type deal?

 

[zwk500]

Would Network Rail create its own in such a situation or carry on using contractors?

Would depend entirely on the amount of funding, how long it was secured for, and the cost of the contractors vs in-house.

The second part is based around a hypothetical that the number of teams the government was willing to fund was more than currently exist (at a sensible price). Could they create an “electrification academy” like the tunnelling one in East London and increase the supply in a couple of years? I am guessing that design is the tricky one for that - would that be a postgrad “apprenticeship” type deal?

Yes, in theory. Might need to be more than just a couple of years though.

 

[Bald Rick]

Network Rail has its own wiring team.

As it happens the cost of wiring teams is a tiny fraction of the cost of electrification though. You also need bridge replacement teams, station teams, heavy civils teams, signalling teams, foundation teams, track teams, utilities teams, power and distribution teams, design teams, community relations teams, and so on.

 

[Meerkat]

Network Rail has its own wiring team

Just one?

As it happens the cost of wiring teams is a tiny fraction of the cost of electrification though

That’s why I added….

fund the equivalent of X wiring teams (design, infrastructure, wiring, the lot)

 

[507020]

Just one?

I assume so, in the same way as there is only one “railway” in Great Britain.

 

[Meerkat]

I assume so, in the same way as there is only one “railway” in Great Britain.

Not sure what you mean. I am thinking in terms of how many projects at once.

 

[Bald Rick]

Just one?

It depends what you call a ‘team’.

 

[Meerkat]

It depends what you call a ‘team’.

I guess I mean the annual cost of one rolling project.
ie you could have one project rolling through GWR schemes, one rolling through Midland Main Line, one doing freight etc etc.
I‘m only asking in terms of politician scale amounts, round hundreds of millions maybe.

 

[Bald Rick]

I guess I mean the annual cost of one rolling project.
ie you could have one project rolling through GWR schemes, one rolling through Midland Main Line, one doing freight etc etc.
I‘m only asking in terms of politician scale amounts, round hundreds of millions maybe.

Well, it depends on various things. How much signalling / civils / station / track works need doing. And the long lead item in all of this is power supply. 3 years absolute minimum, often 5+.

The thing is that all the non-electrification works - which can make up more than half the cost of an electrification project - are usually delivered by the teams that deliver that type of work normally.

 

[Meerkat]

Well, it depends on various things. How much signalling / civils / station / track works need doing. And the long lead item in all of this is power supply. 3 years absolute minimum, often 5+.

The thing is that all the non-electrification works - which can make up more than half the cost of an electrification project - are usually delivered by the teams that deliver that type of work normally.

So what do you tell the minister to ask from the Treasury?
we keep hearing ‘need rolling electrification programme to keep the teams together’

 

[Bald Rick]

So what do you tell the minister to ask from the Treasury?
we keep hearing ‘need rolling electrification programme to keep the teams together’

The treasury will never buy a rolling electrification programme.

You ask for projects on a case by case basis. Starting with the MML. After a few (and it’s not far away) the Network benefits of electrification start to come through, particularly for Cross Country and freight.

Incidentally, you never “tell” the minister to ask for anything. You offer him (or her) advice, and allow him (or her) to choose.

 

[XAM2175]

So what do you tell the minister to ask from the Treasury?
we keep hearing ‘need rolling electrification programme to keep the teams together’

The closest you'll probably come to this is the approach currently used north of the border; Transport Scotland give Network Rail an overall budget and a list of projects and their priorities and then tell them to crack on with as much as they can.

 

[snowball]

The closest you'll probably come to this is the approach currently used north of the border; Transport Scotland give Network Rail an overall budget and a list of projects and their priorities and then tell them to crack on with as much as they can.

I would love to think the UK government would follow Scotland's example here, but I don't think it's likely, at least not so long as the present government is in power.