How could usage at Corby be improved?

[backontrack]

On another thread, somebody mentioned how Corby gets relatively low usage (most recently 0.297 million) for its population (69,500), being some way behind Harlington up the line which registers significantly higher in the usage statistics despite having a tiny fraction of the population of Corby (sure, it's a railhead for Toddington and Barton-le-Clay, but Corby is still much larger).

Corby itself has no services to its nearest large cities, Leicester and Peterborough; destination-wise, it's London via Kettering or, occasionally, Oakham and Melton Mowbray (and you can return to it from Derby, though to get there you have to change at Kettering).

Is there any way that service provision at Corby could be improved in order to boost usage by serving a wider range of locales?

 

[Dr Hoo]

Given the railway geography it is very hard to imagine how reasonably fast and frequent services could be provided to anywhere other than via Kettering.
Ever since the line re-opened connections at Kettering have been either poor or subject to drastic change owing to wider timetable developments.
During re-doubling and electrification the line has been subject to some major blockades. Even within Corby the road layout inhibits easy access to the station from some directions. The very lengthy closure of the bridge just north of the station for rebuilding to electrification clearances made things even worse. The station car park is not huge and already sometimes full with few local alternatives.
I have no doubt that Corby still has great potential, especially when it gets a half-hourly electric service to London, but it will always struggle to do as well as some other places with more benign railway and urban geography.

 

[Peter Kelford]

They could upgrade the junction at Manton to be a triangle, thus creating a way for trains to get to Peterborough.

 

[DPWH]

My thoughts, which might be inaccurate, are related to demographics. The stereotype I have of Corby people is that they aren't the sort of people who commute into London to go and work in the city, i.e. they're not what the late Baroness Thatcher would have called "our kind of people".

 

[backontrack]

They could upgrade the junction at Manton to be a triangle, thus creating a way for trains to get to Peterborough.

That's a good thought, and I wonder if it could be paired well with Varsity Rail, if Bedford-Kettering isn't too much of a bottleneck.

My thoughts, which might be inaccurate, are related to demographics. The stereotype I have of Corby people is that they aren't the sort of people who commute into London to go and work in the city, i.e. they're not what the late Baroness Thatcher would have called "our kind of people".

I think a Corby-Leicester flow would be a good thing to have. If there's space, then I think a Corby via Oakham extension could be tagged onto any reopened Burton-Leicester line service.

 

[VT 390]

Could a new local service operate to/from Leicester via Oakham? This would mean that Corby could get a direct service to somewhere else where better connections to other places could be made as well as giving Oakham and Melton Mowbray a better service than the hourly Cross Country service, this service could even run as an extension of the existing Cross Country service that terminates at Leicester so connections could be made to the WCML at Nuneaton and to many destinations at Birmingham.

 

[edwin_m]

On another thread, somebody mentioned how Corby gets relatively low usage (most recently 0.297 million) for its population (69,500), being some way behind Harlington up the line which registers significantly higher in the usage statistics despite having a tiny fraction of the population of Corby (sure, it's a railhead for Toddington and Barton-le-Clay, but Corby is still much larger).

Corby itself has no services to its nearest large cities, Leicester and Peterborough; destination-wise, it's London via Kettering or, occasionally, Oakham and Melton Mowbray (and you can return to it from Derby, though to get there you have to change at Kettering).

Is there any way that service provision at Corby could be improved in order to boost usage by serving a wider range of locales?

Harlington is essentially a London commuter station - getting to anywhere north of Bedford is very difficult now with the interim MML timetable and won't be too easy even when Corby electrification is complete. The amount of commuting into Leicester or Peterborough from any direction is far less than into London, therefore connecting Corby to Leicester or Peterborough won't make much difference to its passenger numbers. It costs nothing to provide a link such as Market Harborough to Leicester because the train stops anyway for the London market, but if it needs extra train mileage then the costs go up significantly, and even more so if it needs extra infrastructure.

The intention for Corby seems to have been to regenerate a former single-industry town based on it having cheap housing and a good service to London. My perception is that this hasn't really taken off yet. Maybe it will in future, particularly if economic growth resumes at pre-2008 rates and London continues to dominate it.

 

[Aictos]

Well with the issues with platform capacity at Bedford being at a premium, could they extend the Gatwick Airport to Bedford services up to Corby to turnaround there instead and use any proposed paths for those EMU services to Corby from St Pancras for Sheffield/Nottingham instead.

 

[adrock1976]

Well with the issues with platform capacity at Bedford being at a premium, could they extend the Gatwick Airport to Bedford services up to Corby to turnaround there instead and use any proposed paths for those EMU services to Corby from St Pancras for Sheffield/Nottingham instead.

Although seems reasonable on paper, in practice I believe the locals of Kettering and Wellingborough may be upset with Class 700s rather than a traditional Intercity train, being as the fares to and from London reflect traditional Intercity prices.

The Class 700s are designed for local all stations or regional limited stop services that have large passenger volumes, which means that there is no Intercity standards onboard such as a complementary cup of tea in First Class. Also, there are no tables to be able to do some work either.

 

[Aictos]

Although seems reasonable on paper, in practice I believe the locals of Kettering and Wellingborough may be upset with Class 700s rather than a traditional Intercity train, being as the fares to and from London reflect traditional Intercity prices.

The Class 700s are designed for local all stations or regional limited stop services that have large passenger volumes, which means that there is no Intercity standards onboard such as a complementary cup of tea in First Class. Also, there are no tables to be able to do some work either.

Kettering and Wellingborough still would have IC trains in the form of the Nottingham’s though, just until Bedford gets remodelled with a better layout we have to think of all options.

 

[londonteacher]

To be honest I think using Class 700s would be great for this service. Yes it may not be InterCity standards but the journey is not necessarily that long so it does not matter so much. InterCity standards on this line will most likely go when/if new rolling stock is ordered. More destinations such as Kent and the south coast with one change at either London Bridge or Blackfriars!

Although seems reasonable on paper, in practice I believe the locals of Kettering and Wellingborough may be upset with Class 700s rather than a traditional Intercity train, being as the fares to and from London reflect traditional Intercity prices.

The Class 700s are designed for local all stations or regional limited stop services that have large passenger volumes, which means that there is no Intercity standards onboard such as a complementary cup of tea in First Class. Also, there are no tables to be able to do some work either.

 

[Peter Kelford]

To be honest I think using Class 700s would be great for this service. Yes it may not be InterCity standards but the journey is not necessarily that long so it does not matter so much. InterCity standards on this line will most likely go when/if new rolling stock is ordered. More destinations such as Kent and the south coast with one change at either London Bridge or Blackfriars!

Maybe a cascade of rolling stock from GWML and ECML services may be in order?

 

[Bletchleyite]

I think regeneration is what is needed, really - Corby isn't a particularly nice place, and the way to boost usage is going to be to have more people living there who want to use it for commuting etc, and commuters tend not to be in low-wage jobs due to the price of the ticket.

 

[edwin_m]

Well with the issues with platform capacity at Bedford being at a premium, could they extend the Gatwick Airport to Bedford services up to Corby to turnaround there instead and use any proposed paths for those EMU services to Corby from St Pancras for Sheffield/Nottingham instead.

I don't think there is capacity for extra paths on the double track north of Kettering. That section of MML only really needs one extra path, so there are two genuine semis and three geninune fasts instead of dropping a Market Harborough stop into the Nottingham fast. Even that need is a bit marginal and disappears if HS2 Phase 2 happens as there will no longer be a need for Sheffield fasts via MML.

To be honest I think using Class 700s would be great for this service. Yes it may not be InterCity standards but the journey is not necessarily that long so it does not matter so much. InterCity standards on this line will most likely go when/if new rolling stock is ordered. More destinations such as Kent and the south coast with one change at either London Bridge or Blackfriars!

Corby is about 80 miles from St Pancras and 30 from Bedford. Major towns a similar distances out on other routes have either an InterCity option or at least an outer-suburban unit with 2+2 seating and some tables. I'd expect Corby to have an outer-suburban unit which also provides a more comfortable option for Bedford and other intermdiate stops, possibly with a premium London fare enforced by the separate barrier line at St Pancras.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Corby is about 80 miles from St Pancras and 30 from Bedford. Major towns a similar distances out on other routes have either an InterCity option or at least an outer-suburban unit with 2+2 seating and some tables. I'd expect Corby to have an outer-suburban unit which also provides a more comfortable option for Bedford and other intermdiate stops, possibly with a premium London fare enforced by the separate barrier line at St Pancras.

A premium fare is not going to be the way to attract people from a very poor town to use the train, is it? What is needed is something like the LNR Trent Valley service - basic (but comfortable) EMUs, very attractive fares. Class 350/1s would be ideal though none will be spare, the ex Stansted 379s would probably be spot on as well.

 

[Western Lord]

Given that, historically, a large proportion of Corby's population came from Scotland, maybe the trains are running in the wrong direction!

 

[Ianno87]

I don't think there is capacity for extra paths on the double track north of Kettering. That section of MML only really needs one extra path, so there are two genuine semis and three geninune fasts instead of dropping a Market Harborough stop into the Nottingham fast. Even that need is a bit marginal and disappears if HS2 Phase 2 happens as there will no longer be a need for Sheffield fasts via MML.


Corby is about 80 miles from St Pancras and 30 from Bedford. Major towns a similar distances out on other routes have either an InterCity option or at least an outer-suburban unit with 2+2 seating and some tables. I'd expect Corby to have an outer-suburban unit which also provides a more comfortable option for Bedford and other intermdiate stops, possibly with a premium London fare enforced by the separate barrier line at St Pancras.

A premium fare is not going to be the way to attract people from a very poor town to use the train, is it? What is needed is something like the LNR Trent Valley service - basic (but comfortable) EMUs, very attractive fares. Class 350/1s would be ideal though none will be spare, the ex Stansted 379s would probably be spot on as well.

That section of the MML (from Wellingborough/Kettering) already pays a relative price premium for the distance to London due to getting 'InterCity' quality service. Doesn't sit well with stimulating usage of Corby!

 

[edwin_m]

A premium fare is not going to be the way to attract people from a very poor town to use the train, is it? What is needed is something like the LNR Trent Valley service - basic (but comfortable) EMUs, very attractive fares. Class 350/1s would be ideal though none will be spare, the ex Stansted 379s would probably be spot on as well.

I was thinking the premium fare would only be between London and all stops out to Bedford, where a Thameslink alternative is available. This already exists at Luton Airport Parkway. For Wellingborough and Kettering I would suggest only one set of fares, or perhaps even a lower fare only valid on the Corby trains.

 

[backontrack]

That section of the MML (from Wellingborough/Kettering) already pays a relative price premium for the distance to London due to getting 'InterCity' quality service. Doesn't sit well with stimulating usage of Corby!

I think a London-Corby-Leicester service might be the best way to go, if it's possible.

 

[LLivery]

The social figures from the North Northants councils are dire. I remember reading they have the worst social mobility rate in England. I was stunned. If the authorities and the likes of Peter Bone et al., really want to help the locals they'd stop blaming the EU for everything, stop bankrupting the county council and actually do something useful.

Although seems reasonable on paper, in practice I believe the locals of Kettering and Wellingborough may be upset with Class 700s rather than a traditional Intercity train, being as the fares to and from London reflect traditional Intercity prices.

The Class 700s are designed for local all stations or regional limited stop services that have large passenger volumes, which means that there is no Intercity standards onboard such as a complementary cup of tea in First Class. Also, there are no tables to be able to do some work either.

As someone who was born in the area and have family in one of these towns, I really couldn't care less if it was an InterCity or an outer suburban unit, as long as it has enough seats and doesn't add a load of minutes to the journey time. With the population growth and attempt to get far more people commuting from Wellingborough and Kettering into London and inevitably other cities, any operator/gov should really be looking at a fare reduction. I remember comparing Wellingborough to London with Northampton some years back and it felt criminal.

I think a London-Corby-Leicester service might be the best way to go, if it's possible.

Just an hourly extension of the planned half hourly could well be popular. Towards Leicester, try to time it for a connection time for a Stansted service from Oakham.

 

[backontrack]

The social figures from the North Northants councils are dire. I remember reading they have the worst social mobility rate in England. I was stunned. If the authorities and the likes of Peter Bone et al., really want to help the locals they'd stop blaming the EU for everything, stop bankrupting the county council and actually do something useful.

Preach!

With the population growth and attempt to get far more people commuting from Wellingborough and Kettering into London and inevitably other cities, any operator/gov should really be looking at a fare reduction...

...especially as those stations also serve towns like Rushden, Raunds, Irthlingborough, Irchester, Thrapston and Higham Ferrers.

Just an hourly extension of the planned half hourly could well be popular. Towards Leicester, try to time it for a connection time for a Stansted service from Oakham.

I think so - that's what I'd try to do.

 

[LLivery]

Preach!


...especially as those stations also serve towns like Rushden, Raunds, Irthlingborough, Irchester, Thrapston and Higham Ferrers.


I think so - that's what I'd try to do.

Indeed, the poor connections to these towns to the stations say it all. Rushden alone has a bigger population than Market Harborough. Wellingborough should be a big railhead - Corby had a rail-bus-link for years, just rerouting the bus routes through the station would make sense.

 

[700007]

Corby's usage could be improved by a number of things:

A) ramp up the services to 2tph to London - already announced by DfT in the new EMR franchise

B) introduce a new local service 1tph from Kettering / Corby to Melton Mowbray

C) introduce a megabus+ sort of scheme from Corby

D) introduce earlier and later trains particularly on Sundays

 

[hooverboy]

On another thread, somebody mentioned how Corby gets relatively low usage (most recently 0.297 million) for its population (69,500), being some way behind Harlington up the line which registers significantly higher in the usage statistics despite having a tiny fraction of the population of Corby (sure, it's a railhead for Toddington and Barton-le-Clay, but Corby is still much larger).

Corby itself has no services to its nearest large cities, Leicester and Peterborough; destination-wise, it's London via Kettering or, occasionally, Oakham and Melton Mowbray (and you can return to it from Derby, though to get there you have to change at Kettering).

Is there any way that service provision at Corby could be improved in order to boost usage by serving a wider range of locales?

simple solution would be a connecting service to peterborough.That would at least provide a quick-ish link between MML and ECML
even if they could only path a 1tph sprinter kettering-peterborough via corby/oakhamI bet it would get used.no real need for anything more as there is already the cross country service via leicester(which is usually full)

as for local footfall ,the bus links between the station and corby town centre could do with improvement for sure.

 

[Aictos]

simple solution would be a connecting service to peterborough.That would at least provide a quick-ish link between MML and ECML
even if they could only path a 1tph sprinter kettering-peterborough via corby/oakhamI bet it would get used.no real need for anything more as there is already the cross country service via leicester(which is usually full)

as for local footfall ,the bus links between the station and corby town centre could do with improvement for sure.

While I agree for the need to expand capacity between Leicester and Peterborough, I do feel that IF the option is taken to offer a shuttle between Kettering and Corby that any such service ought to terminate at Leicester bearing in mind current infrastructure limitations and sharing the platform with the XC Birmingham to Leicester service so same platform connections, yes I know this can be done at Oakham, Melton Mowbray etc but Leicester offers much more in facilities.

Equally the incoming franchise holder could decide to take a leaf out of South Eastern's book on how they operate HS1 with their St Pancras to St Pancras via Dover services and decide to extend the St Pancras Int to Corby services to St Pancras Int but via Leicester using Bi Modes so no need for a EMU fleet.

The service could call at:

St Pancras International - Luton - Bedford - Wellingborough - Kettering - Market Harborough -
Leicester - Melton Mowbray - Oakham - Corby - Kettering - Wellingborough - Bedford - Luton -
St Pancras International

Which would mean that 1tph to both Nottingham and Sheffield could run non stop between St Pancras Int and Leicester resulting in shorter journey times.

 

[Gathursty]

The service could call at:

St Pancras International - Luton - Bedford - Wellingborough - Kettering - Market Harborough -
Leicester - Melton Mowbray - Oakham - Corby - Kettering - Wellingborough - Bedford - Luton -
St Pancras International

Which would mean that 1tph to both Nottingham and Sheffield could run non stop between St Pancras Int and Leicester resulting in shorter journey times.

I think you have a brilliant solution here!

 

[TheBigD]

They could upgrade the junction at Manton to be a triangle, thus creating a way for trains to get to Peterborough.

Back in the early 1990s Regional Railways proposed a Peterborough to Swindon service via Oxford, Bedford and Corby. At least 1 (there may have been a 2nd) publicity train was run along the route using a cl155 sprinter. There was rumours at the time that if it went ahead a new curve at Manton would have been built. Sadly the proposed service never ran and the Oxford - Bletchley route was mothballed.

 

[TheBigD]

I think regeneration is what is needed, really - Corby isn't a particularly nice place, and the way to boost usage is going to be to have more people living there who want to use it for commuting etc, and commuters tend not to be in low-wage jobs due to the price of the ticket.

There is an awful lot of new houses being built around Corby. Most of the old ironstone quarries are being built upon. Weldon Lakes, Priors Hall Park, Little Stanion are all new housing developments and more are in the pipeline. The former Deenthorpe airfield is also earmarked for housing. Corby has recently seen a new dual carriage way to replace/compliment the old A43. Having a half hourly 70 minute journey to London will see Corby grow even more.

Whilst the Corby of the 1970s/80s/90s wasn't a great place there is now a lot of investment going in to Corby.

 

[TheBigD]

Given that, historically, a large proportion of Corby's population came from Scotland, maybe the trains are running in the wrong direction!

For the first few month of opening Corby was only served by 1 train, up to London in the morning and back from London in the evening until more services were added once EMT received the ex Hull Trains 222s.

During this time ticket sales for journeys from Peterborough to Scotland were said to have been higher than to London.

 

[4-SUB 4732]

Better car parking and Corby acting as the Railhead for Stamford could do the trick; as well as improved local bus services to bring people to the station from the wider town and villages.

With frequency will come a natural increase in passenger traffic; and people have mentioned a form of service from Corby to Leicester. As the crow flies, it appears it would be quicker to have a ‘fast’ bus from the town to Market Harborough and thence people can go into Leicester. The only logical application would be a future East West route, perhaps, from Bletchley (etc) to Bedford, Wellingborough, Corby and over the top to Leicester.