Highest minimum number of changes?

[43096]

Waterloo to Kings Cross - need to change at Bank or Euston (wrong branch)

Or, more sensibly, Oxford Circus.

 

[Gloster]

This is similar to another question I've thought of in the past which is whether there are any stations in the UK that are more than 2 changes from a London terminal - the length of these changes does not matter so an overnight in Inverness would be fine for example

Somewhere I read that in the days of the Big Four, the only station requiring three changes from London was Presteigne. I haven’t checked it in detail, but it looks plausible.

 

[Jonny]

Other stations between Barton-on-Humber and Habrough not inclusive; plus Hall I' Th'Wood (as above)

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 18 Nov 2022 ==


Waterloo to Kings Cross - need to change at Bank or Euston (wrong branch)

Leicester Square or Warren Street are the other two main two options, also Picadilly Circus or Green Park...

even Oxford Circus 'works' as a single change point.

 

[Techniquest]

Somewhere I read that in the days of the Big Four, the only station requiring three changes from London was Presteigne. I haven’t checked it in detail, but it looks plausible.

I haven't looked into the query myself, but Presteigne to London would indeed be 3 changes at Titley Junction (that station is still around and has a small preservation operation going), Leominster and either Hereford or Newport. There's actually quite a bit of the old railway in that part of the world still around, although in Presteigne I'm sure the site was built over with a secondary school.

I can't think of any good suggestions for the thread, at least not yet!

 

[PGAT]

Shanklin to Blaenau Ffestiniog requires at least 7 changes which include a replacement bus at Ryde Esplanade, a ferry at Ryde Pier Head and the Underground from Waterloo to Euston

 

[mailbyrail]

This is similar to another question I've thought of in the past which is whether there are any stations in the UK that are more than 2 changes from a London terminal - the length of these changes does not matter so an overnight in Inverness would be fine for example

Ince and Elton must be another

 

[pdq]

Trivia: Stations that are at least two or more changes away from London

I visited the Barton on Humber line earlier this week and it occurred to me that you need to make two changes to get from stations on that line to London. How many places are there in the UK where this is the case? Stations on the national network where two or more changes of train are required...

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[mangyiscute]

Waterloo to Kings Cross - need to change at Bank or Euston (wrong branch)

Arguably if you got on a northbound northern line from waterloo theres a good chance that if you stay on the same train it'll eventually get to Kings Cross - although I guess this raises the question of whether staying on the same train when it begins a new journey counts as a change which i expect most people would say as a yes

 

[miklcct]

i expect most people would say as a yes

I say no to this question. In my records staying on the same train / tram / bus while it starts a new journey doesn't count as a change. However it doesn't apply here as it's not a known fact that a northbound Charing Cross train will become a southbound Bank train at the terminus, in contrast to e.g. Sutton loop trains where the through-running is well publicised.

 

[yorkie]

Marlow to Barton requires 6 changes, departing in the morning peak:

08:06 - 13:50
Marlow to Barton-on-Humber

6 changes - Bourne End, Maidenhead, London Paddington, London Kings Cross, Doncaster, Grimsby Town
5hrs 44mins

 

[scrapy]

This is similar to another question I've thought of in the past which is whether there are any stations in the UK that are more than 2 changes from a London terminal - the length of these changes does not matter so an overnight in Inverness would be fine for example

Ince and Elton must be another

Ince and Elton is 1 change from London (change at Warrington BQ)

 

[D6975]

Shanklin to Blaenau Ffestiniog requires at least 7 changes which include a replacement bus at Ryde Esplanade, a ferry at Ryde Pier Head and the Underground from Waterloo to Euston

Marlow to Barton requires 6 changes,

Deliberately taking a non-optimum route or non-optimum start time doesn't count I suspect. Going via Newport reduces the number of changes for the first one to 5 and if you ignore temporary arrangements reduces to just 4, Ryde Pier Head, Pompey Harbour, Newport and Llandudno Jn. Marlow to Barton on Humber is another one, can be done in 4 if you go via Reading rather than London. (Maidenhead, Reading, Stockport and Grimsby)

 

[yorkie]

Deliberately taking a non-optimum route or non-optimum start time doesn't count I suspect. Going via Newport reduces the number of changes for the first one to 5 and if you ignore temporary arrangements reduces to just 4, Ryde Pier Head, Pompey Harbour, Newport and Llandudno Jn. Marlow to Barton on Humber is another one, can be done in 4 if you go via Reading rather than London. (Maidenhead, Reading, Stockport and Grimsby)

What itinerary do you have in mind? Would it get you to Barton at the same time?

 

[D6975]

Time is irrelevant, it's the minimum no of changes that's asked for. As I said, deliberately choosing a bad start time doesn't meet the criteria, it can be done in 4.

 

[yorkie]

Well it depends on the question; for a customer actually wanting to make that journey in the morning, and arrive at a sensible time, a journey by train requires 6 changes.

However you are right that if a customer is really desperate to minimise changes, they could make a journey that is two and a quarter hours longer, and arrive much later as a result. They would also need to purchase a combination of tickets for that journey, as it's not a permitted route. Whether anyone would actually do this is highly questionable.

 

[InkyScrolls]

From the original question:

"Which pair(s) of stations have the highest minimum number of changes required to travel between them? Excluding Northern Ireland and heritage railways, and assuming I don't mind how long the journey takes."

 

[Class800]

From the original question:

"Which pair(s) of stations have the highest minimum number of changes required to travel between them? Excluding Northern Ireland and heritage railways, and assuming I don't mind how long the journey takes."

But it could be inferred we are referring to using a permitted route - as it doesn't say splitting tickets.

 

[InkyScrolls]

Allow me to clarify: I don't mind how long it takes or how many tickets I need, only the number of times I am physically required to change trains.

 

[mangyiscute]

I say no to this question. In my records staying on the same train / tram / bus while it starts a new journey doesn't count as a change. However it doesn't apply here as it's not a known fact that a northbound Charing Cross train will become a southbound Bank train at the terminus, in contrast to e.g. Sutton loop trains where the through-running is well publicised.

But if you stay on that train for long enough the chances are it would eventually go via Bank - unless the services are segregated which i have no idea about

 

[zwk500]

But if you stay on that train for long enough the chances are it would eventually go via Bank - unless the services are segregated which i have no idea about

If you stay on the train to one end you get told 'all change please', therefore I'd count staying on a train as it terminates and forms another service a change. Otherwise people will start looking at unit diagramming and working out very mad cases you can do with only 1 'change'

 

[mangyiscute]

If you stay on the train to one end you get told 'all change please', therefore I'd count staying on a train as it terminates and forms another service a change. Otherwise people will start looking at unit diagramming and working out very mad cases you can do with only 1 'change'

yeah like say if (and I'm pretty sure it isn't the case) the Barton-upon-Humber train is formed from another passenger train that has come from say Lincoln, then you could get to Barton with one change and one 'change' where you do not have to change physical train but you are on a different service - is that a change?

 

[miklcct]

yeah like say if (and I'm pretty sure it isn't the case) the Barton-upon-Humber train is formed from another passenger train that has come from say Lincoln, then you could get to Barton with one change and one 'change' where you do not have to change physical train but you are on a different service - is that a change?

Don't you consider taking a Thameslink train from Mitcham Junction to Wimbledon a direct train? It's the same physical train but on a different service.

 

[zwk500]

Don't you consider taking a Thameslink train from Mitcham Junction to Wimbledon a direct train? It's the same physical train but on a different service.

Loop services with split headcodes are different to a train terminating and then forming a different service. I personally would consider the Sutton Loop as a through train, although there's no journey where changing on this service would relevant to the OP's question.

 

[PGAT]

For all practical travel purposes, it is a direct train

 

[miklcct]

Loop services with split headcodes are different to a train terminating and then forming a different service.

How are they different, in operation terms, compared to, for example, the last Lymington branch train going back to Brockenhurst on a weekday then forming a stopping service to Poole, such that Lymington - Christchurch passengers will stay through on the same train?

 

[zwk500]

How are they different, in operation terms, compared to, for example, the last Lymington branch train going back to Brockenhurst on a weekday then forming a stopping service to Poole, such that Lymington - Christchurch passengers will stay through on the same train?

Advertising, timekeeping and the length of layover. If the Lymington train reverses straight away on it's way to Poole then arguably it's similar. But if it sits there for 10 minutes and is advertised as a separate service then it's a change, even if you are allowed to sit on the train throughout.

 

[miklcct]

Advertising, timekeeping and the length of layover. If the Lymington train reverses straight away on it's way to Poole then arguably it's similar. But if it sits there for 10 minutes and is advertised as a separate service then it's a change, even if you are allowed to sit on the train throughout.

That train sits at Brockenhurst for nearly half an hour for a fast train to pass.

However, even advertised direct services do the same, such as the Winchester - Bournemouth stopper.

 

[etr221]

When I encountered this qustion a good few years ago, for a British Rail ONLY journey (no Underground - and I think no walking between stations either) the answer was I think 7: from any station on the Southminster branch, to a particular station (Swale?) on the Sheerness branch, which did not have a service from beyond Sittingbourne. A surprisingly short distance by crow...
I think changes were Wickford, Stratford, Highbury & I., Richmond, Clapham Junction, Victoria, Sittingbourne.
This was before electrification of the Southminster branch and the North London Line to Stratford - both of which brought through trains, and removed one change.

 

[Basil Jet]

But if you stay on that train for long enough the chances are it would eventually go via Bank - unless the services are segregated which i have no idea about

If you stay on any tube train long enough it will end up on the Isle Of Wight.

 

[zwk500]

If you stay on any tube train long enough it will end up on the Isle Of Wight.

Bravo!