Highest minimum number of changes?

[InkyScrolls]

Which pair(s) of stations have the highest minimum number of changes required to travel between them? Excluding Northern Ireland and heritage railways, and assuming I don't mind how long the journey takes.

E.g. Baildon to Stranraer requires a minimum of three changes, at Shipley, Carlisle and Kilmarnock.

 

[bib]

Well to increase the bidding, Felixtowe to Barmouth appears to be 5 trains + tube according to the trainline journey planner, with options for heritage rail extensions at other points on the Cambrian line.

 

[InkyScrolls]

Is that the minimum, though? Trainline shows five or six changes for the example I gave, but it is doable in four.

Edit: Five does seem to be the minimum - changes at Ipswich, Norwich, Manchester (Piccadilly), Shrewsbury and Dovey Jct., with no Tube segment.

 

[Magdalia]

With some semblance of a normal train service Felixstowe to Barmouth can be done with 4 changes at Ipswich, Peterborough, Birmingham and Machynlleth.

Is this not showing in train planners because Peterborough-Leicester is currently closed following the bridge bash?

I think there are lots of examples from Felixstowe, or similar, that require 4 changes.

But is it possible to do Felixstowe-Stranraer with only 4 changes?

 

[greatkingrat]

But is it possible to do Felixstowe-Stranraer with only 4 changes?

Yes, if you catch the 1 direct train a day from Peterborough to Glasgow Central.

In fact you can do Stranraer to Felixstowe in 3 changes, although it requires a 21 hour wait in Glasgow for the direct train to Peterborough!

 

[Class800]

Looe to Thurso?

Absolute minimum seems to be change at Liskeard, Edinburgh and Inverness - but it would usually need Plymouth too. Might be some similar journeys that need 4 or 5. Also depends what we count for Underground journeys on something like Rowlands Castle to Kyle of Lochalsh.

 

[Starmill]

With some semblance of a normal train service Felixstowe to Barmouth can be done with 4 changes at Ipswich, Peterborough, Birmingham and Machynlleth.

In fact three is very doable, all of those without Machynlleth.

 

[InkyScrolls]

In fact three is very doable, all of those without Machynlleth.

No through trains Birmingham to Pwllheli at the moment.

 

[Jonny]

It depends if you exclude the Caledonian Sleeper for destinations on the far north and Kyle lines, without it you're looking at 4 changes not counting changes on the London Underground, (e.g. Soutlend Victoria -> London Liverpool Street -> London King's Cross -> Edinburgh -> Inverness -> Ardgay/Garve and beyond) because the LNER "Highland Chieftain" service arrives after the last train to/beyond Ardgay/Garve has left and the closest in rail geography terms is Dingwall and Tain.

 

[Class800]

It depends if you exclude the Caledonian Sleeper for destinations on the far north and Kyle lines, without it you're looking at 4 changes not counting changes on the London Underground, (e.g. Soutlend Victoria -> London Liverpool Street -> London King's Cross -> Edinburgh -> Inverness -> Ardgay/Garve and beyond) because the LNER "Highland Chieftain" service arrives after the last train to/beyond Ardgay/Garve has left and the closest in rail geography terms is Dingwall and Tain.

But probably should count the changes on the Underground if they are part of the journey?

 

[Jonny]

But probably should count the changes on the Underground if they are part of the journey?

National Rail Enquiries doesn't count them unfortunately.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

No through trains Birmingham to Pwllheli at the moment.

That's due to engineering work, not a permanent truncation...

 

[Jonny]

If I really wanted to contrive one (That would mean not looking at walking across from St Pancras (Thameslink) to London King's Cross), I could replace the first part by using Clapham Hish Street (LO) -> Clapham Junction -> London Waterloo -> (multiple possible change points on LU) -> London King's Cross. That would bring up to six, but even then you can 'bend the rules' for King's Cross St Pancras as creating a single station complex.

 

[Class800]

National Rail Enquiries doesn't count them unfortunately.

So it's a data error that needs manual calculation for how many changes on the overall journey?

 

[The exile]

Can Stourbridge Town to Pilning be done in less than 4?

 

[Starmill]

No through trains Birmingham to Pwllheli at the moment.

No, but the post said when a "normal train service" was running. They're in the upcoming WTT.

 

[30907]

IIRC It was 5 from Island Line stations last time this was asked.

 

[Class800]

IIRC It was 5 from Island Line stations last time this was asked.

Including a ferry?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 18 Nov 2022 ==

Also see https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/most-changes-for-one-journey.36168/

This thread says 6 are needed for
Tain - Hutton Cranswick
Tain - Hove
Tain - Looe
But the journey can't be completed in a day!

One that can be completed in a day for which 6 changes are claimed is
Sheerness on Sea to Stourbridge Town

OK, I'll try to work that one out independently.

Change at Sittingbourne, London Victoria, London Euston, Birmingham New Street, Stourbridge Junction

I make it 5 changes? Still a lot

 

[NSE]

Including a ferry?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 18 Nov 2022 ==

Also see https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/most-changes-for-one-journey.36168/

This thread says 6 are needed for
Tain - Hutton Cranswick
Tain - Hove
Tain - Looe
But the journey can't be completed in a day!

One that can be completed in a day for which 6 changes are claimed is
Sheerness on Sea to Stourbridge Town

OK, I'll try to work that one out independently.

Change at Sittingbourne, London Victoria, London Euston, Birmingham New Street, Stourbridge Junction

I make it 5 changes? Still a lot

Shame the peak direct Victoria/Sheerness services aren’t running anymore. That must be one of the highest for a journey that can be done throughout the day without waiting for once a day services etc.

 

[zwk500]

One that can be completed in a day for which 6 changes are claimed is
Sheerness on Sea to Stourbridge Town

OK, I'll try to work that one out independently.

Change at Sittingbourne, London Victoria, London Euston, Birmingham New Street, Stourbridge Junction

I make it 5 changes? Still a lot

I don't think there's any direct trains from New Street to Stourbridge, certainly not during the day. You'd need another change for the walk/tram to Moor Street.

Minimum I can see this route is: Sittingbourne, Victoria, (Oxford Circus)*, Marylebone, Stourbridge Junction. 4/5 changes

* - Depending on how the underground and walking connections are defined, this may not count as a 'change'. You can either do Victoria Line-Bakerloo Line to Marylebone tube, or Circle Line from Victoria to Baker Street and then walk the 400m to Marylebone, which is a similar distance to 'official' OSIs, IIRC.

 

[Class800]

Sheerness to Reston is 4 - Sittingbourne, St Pancras, Kings Cross (walking change!), Newcastle.

Also 4 for Sheerness to Wick - Sittingbourne, Victoria, Euston, Inverness - it's 5 changes without Sleeper

 

[zwk500]

Also 4 for Sheerness to Wick - Sittingbourne, Victoria, Euston, Inverness - it's 5 changes without Sleeper

You can also get the Inverness day train from King's Cross to avoid the sleeper, but not sure if you get to Inverness in time for the last Wick though so it may be an overnight. stay in Inverness

 

[mangyiscute]

This is similar to another question I've thought of in the past which is whether there are any stations in the UK that are more than 2 changes from a London terminal - the length of these changes does not matter so an overnight in Inverness would be fine for example

 

[Class800]

This is similar to another question I've thought of in the past which is whether there are any stations in the UK that are more than 2 changes from a London terminal - the length of these changes does not matter so an overnight in Inverness would be fine for example

Hard enough to find a station more than 1 change away from London. There are some, but not aware of any more than 2 away. Hall i' th' Wood is 2 changes (Bolton and Manchester Piccadilly). Stations on the Barton-on-Humber branch need 2 changes, e.g. Habrough and Doncaster.

Due to the Highland Chieftain, even Kyle of Lochalsh and Wick can be reached from Kings Cross with a singular change at Inverness, but necessitating an overnight BoJ. Sleeper is another option from Euston.

 

[Shimbleshanks]

Shanklin-Thurso is coming up with a minimum 7 changes, though it does include a rail replacement bus for Ryde esplanade to Ryde Pier Head. In normal times it would be 6.

 

[Llandudno]

Looe - Fazakerley = 5 changes

 

[Tetchytyke]

This is similar to another question I've thought of in the past which is whether there are any stations in the UK that are more than 2 changes from a London terminal

I can think of a few that are two changes- Hawarden Bridge, Barton-on-Humber- but struggling to think of any that are more.

 

[zwk500]

Shanklin-Thurso is coming up with a minimum 7 changes, though it does include a rail replacement bus for Ryde esplanade to Ryde Pier Head. In normal times it would be 6.

I make it 5 changes if you use the Highland Chieftan: Ryde Pier Head, Portsmouth Harbour, Waterloo, King's Cross, Inverness.

 

[Class800]

I can think of a few that are two changes- Hawarden Bridge, Barton-on-Humber- but struggling to think of any that are more.

Other stations between Barton-on-Humber and Habrough not inclusive; plus Hall I' Th'Wood (as above)

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 18 Nov 2022 ==

I make it 5 changes if you use the Highland Chieftan: Ryde Pier Head, Portsmouth Harbour, Waterloo, King's Cross, Inverness.

Waterloo to Kings Cross - need to change at Bank or Euston (wrong branch)

 

[D6975]

Shanklin-Thurso is coming up with a minimum 7 changes, though it does include a rail replacement bus for Ryde esplanade to Ryde Pier Head. In normal times it would be 6.

You need to work it out for yourself, not use a journey planner.
Journey planners come up with the most sensible, easy journeys and will avoid itineraries with lengthy waits or unusual routes that may use fewer changes.