It did occur to me a few times to try and work put if extending one ( each ) peak Exmouth-Paignton to/from Kingswear was practical. Morning might be more awkward, but maybe that service could pick up a staff for the entire line with it set up the evening before. If the ferry at Kingswear doesn't start early then it's a bit pointless though.
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Heritage Railways providing a public service
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The first suitable ferry from Dartmouth is the lower vehicle ferry at 07:10, Mon-Sat, which suggests an earliest practical rail departure around 07:30 which could plausibly get to Exeter before 09:00. The railway company passenger ferry starts at 07:30. The upper vehicle ferry starts a little earlier at 06:30, and can also be used as a foot passenger, but is a long walk from the station at the Kingswear side. Service finishes around 23:00 on all routes. Run by different operators, fares for a single passenger journey are the same on each crossing I think, but returns and multi-trip fares aren't inter-available, and inclusive railway tickets can't be used on either of the local authority run car ferries.
It's an unusual line for the 'heritage' sector in having centrally controlled mainline style TCB signalling with colour light signals, full track circuiting and electric point machines, so only needs one signaller on duty at Britannia Crossing in order to run trains. The NR-owned Sands Lane crossing at Paignton is operated by traincrew and has dual control units, one for mainline crews going to and from Goodrington sidings and one for the steam railway staff. 'Passive provision' for a fully signalled connection between the two networks was made in the 1990s relay interlocking and control panel, but has never been followed through on the Network Rail side, hence the NR end of the crossover points still need to be clipped and padlocked and the driver verbally instructed for each movement, limited to infrequent excursions currently. Regular daily movements would certainly require something more secure than that.
Through ferry tickets for a GW service could presumably be organised at least. The network connection sounds just the wrong side of awkward for an extended trial period though
Bear in mind that for Exeter bus and train via Totnes can be done in 90min or so according to Traveline (without any apparent service coordination). That leaves Dartmouth to Torbay as your marketThrough ferry tickets for a GW service could presumably be organised at least. The network connection sounds just the wrong side of awkward for an extended trial period though
It really depends on which heritage railway you are considering the structure and ownership of the line differs widely across the heritage scene. For example my own railway K &ESR bought the whole line from Tenterden to Bodiam directly from BR with a 25 year mortgage, the resulting light railway transfer order meant that ownership of the land and the statutory authority associated with it passed to the preservation company. The West Somerset land is actually owned by the local authority and the PLC operate as a lessee of the assets. The Wensleydale operates as a lessee of network Rail who still own the freehold of the land.
The taking back of any line in to the national network would probably involve Network Rail applying for a transport and works order which if anybody challenged it would result in a public inquiry. It would then be up to network rail to prove that the benefits of the public transport outwieghed the benefits of the heritage railway.
Realistically in the scenario that existed even before the pandemic whereas the railway industry as a whole required a massive subsidy exactly how likely is it that any Government is likely to want to take on lines which if added to the national network would be absolute basket cases financially?
Bear in mind that for Exeter bus and train via Totnes can be done in 90min or so according to Traveline (without any apparent service coordination). That leaves Dartmouth to Torbay as your market
The first 92 to Totnes seems to leave at 07:45 & takes 45 mins or so - so there might actually be some pickup there for a direct morning train. Kingswear - Paignton on the bus is about 20 mins, so that would probably be the competition ( allowing for the "get on & not have to change" factor ). I mean let's be clear, driving is far quicker but Exeter rush-hour is a nightmare, and if there was enough traffic from Dartmouth for a full service the line would still be in NR hands. This is about the most edge case I can think of ( maybe the NYMR is even more, I have no idea about where the locals want to go up there ).
0610 according to Traveline, then nothing to 0925 (!).
It would require that 0745 departure to make a halfway possible commute.
In practice people would I suspect drive to Totnes - or not do the commute!
There is a tolerable service Kingswear-Brixham, but that to Paignton seems to be off-peak only.
DJ_K666
Member
I'd just ra
To me it'd be a bit like being seen in one of those old Czech Skodas back in the 90s, before they became rebadged Volkswagens.
THat said mk1s were superior to what came before them and were less safe than the mk2, which in turn was less safe than a mk3 and do on. Now we have the mk5 on TPE or the Callie, although I have yet to sample the delights of those.
Like I said somewhere before the ideal coach to me would be a new build that has up to date safety features and is completely crashworthy but looks indistinguishable from a mk1.
I'd rather not be in a BMW full stop. Safety aside I don;t want people looking at me and going [Censored]
To me it'd be a bit like being seen in one of those old Czech Skodas back in the 90s, before they became rebadged Volkswagens.
THat said mk1s were superior to what came before them and were less safe than the mk2, which in turn was less safe than a mk3 and do on. Now we have the mk5 on TPE or the Callie, although I have yet to sample the delights of those.
Like I said somewhere before the ideal coach to me would be a new build that has up to date safety features and is completely crashworthy but looks indistinguishable from a mk1.
There's early and late ferries, so that isn't an issue. I guess manning the signal box could be a challenge
John Luxton
Established Member
Some lines offer local residents cards for those with an address close to their stations. With a discount that can make the heritage line a more cost effective second means of transport particularly if there are gaps in the bus timetable.
Paul Hitchcock
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Wishful thought I fear. Similar thoughts have been put about since the beginning of railway preservation.
John Luxton
Established Member
well is it?
I companies would not issue these local residents cards if there was not some evidence of use.
Back in the 90s and possibly into the early naughties I recall on visits to the Ffestiniog an elderly chap who used to board the train at Penrhyn and go up to Blaenau and do his shopping. Penrhyn station is a lot more convenient than having to walk about half a mile down hill to the main road for the bus! I imagine dotted around the country there are people who use their local heritage line as another transport option.
When I was at Talyllyn a few weeks ago there were a good few getting on and off at intermediate stations which suggests more than just there and back tourist passengers.
John
Paul Hitchcock
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Yes it is with bells on. Call them leisure railways, preserved railways or what you will, they cannot afford to offer a fifty two weeks a year service for tiny numbers of people. Out of peak periods are when maintenance is done.
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Bertie the bus
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They might. Issuing local residents with discount fare cards will cost very little but help the line show how it is part of the local community and pacify some who might have complaints about visitors parking in their street or whatever local people complain about.
There can often be several reasons for an action and not all of them are obvious or stated.
John Luxton
Established Member
Yes we know it is not viable to operate out of season - but that is not to say people cannot use them as a means of public transport when they are running. If the heritage train departs at point A at 10:00 but the next bus is a very long walk or doesn't depart until 11:00 the railway is going to attract some passengers to get to point B. It probably wont be as cheap as the bus but its likely to be cheaper than a taxi which is the only other alternative for those not wishing to use a car.
I do get a strange feeling that some people want to play down any suggestion that heritage lines can be more useful than just being a joy ride. This on going theme has percolated several threads recently. I do find it disappointing that enthusiasts at least promote this opinion in public. I am not say saying it isn't true - but one would expect a more upbeat spin on things.
It would be nice to see it but if those passengers with discount local tickets already are trying to cram onto busy trains full of people that are paying top dollar it could be a bit tricky I guess?
Strictly speaking they didnt. They ran a charter for Kent County Council who then offered it as the school kids entitlement to frees school transport. Numbers ran so low it was stopped some years ago.
MaidaVale
Member
Telford Steam Railway plan to run a weekday public service to Ironbridge from their stop at Horsehay & Dawley / Lawley Village using a mix of 142 and 144 pacers that have been purchased. The line is currently approved although not reconstructed between HorsehayDawley and Ironbridge, although I believe construction is ongoing yet slow. The 144 has now entered operational service on normal Sunday heritage operations, although their main usage goal is on publics.
The KWVR Local Residents' card is well used despite a decent local bus service - and there was a period when Ingrow-Keighley was cheaper by bus. It helps that there are 3 supermarkets by Keighley station, and the bus doesn't go there!
In addition, the interchange with the main line is used by a steady trickle of longer-distance rail travellers, not just day-trippers.
But the KWVR is exceptional in being an almost-urban branch (the East Lancs is the nearest equivalent, but rather more rural).
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And this one: https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/trivia-community-rail-services-on-heritage-railways.172078/Correct - several times, threads include:
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