Heathrow Express use continuing to decline

[Krokodil]

Most origins are not London terminal railway stations.

50% of tickets sold from Heathrow are going to Paddington. 25% are going to other stations served by the Lizzie line. The rest of the country is very much a minority.

If I understand correctly, the paths are basically useless to GWR because they only go as far as Airport Junction and there isn't the capacity to run them further along the fasts to Reading.

Would reduce congestion east of Airport Junction though.

 

[Tetchytyke]

Which is why need to consider semi-fast trains too.

They already do this. The Didcot semi-fasts run fast line to Langley before switching to the relief. The HEx path is two minutes behind the Didcot semi-fast. You couldn't put an extra fast path in where the HEx is; as it stands the next fast, a couple of minutes behind the HEx, is right up the back of the semi-fast by Langley.

HEx basically fills dead space.

 

[43066]

I think that the Heathrow express has a place to play as an express from Heathrow to the city centre. However it is simply too expensive in its current form and desperately needs a price cut in order to not be wasting paths into Paddington with low passenger numbers .

Paddington isn’t exactly the city centre.

50% of tickets sold from Heathrow are going to Paddington. 25% are going to other stations served by the Lizzie line. The rest of the country is very much a minority.

And no doubt the vast majority of travellers to Paddington will be travelling onwards via tube, in many cases to other London terminals.

 

[Bikeman78]

From a quick look at walk up prices, the HEX is £25 one way, EL to zone 1 is £12.80, Piccadilly line is £5.50.

To be honest, I assumed that the Piccadilly line and Elizabeth line were the same price. Oops!

 

[43066]

To be honest, I assumed that the Piccadilly line and Elizabeth line were the same price. Oops!

I must admit the EL fare is more than I expected it to be.

 

[Tetchytyke]

To be honest, I assumed that the Piccadilly line and Elizabeth line were the same price. Oops!

For single fares there's a big price difference between EL and the tube. In both cases the fare can be reduced at off-peak times by touching out and in again at Hayes and Harlington (EL) or Hatton Cross (tube); the reason for this is that there are no off peak fares to Heathrow.

But if you have done/will do other travel during the day in London, it depends on that other travel. The Z1-6 cap applies regardless of whether you go by EL or Piccadilly Line.

This is where HEx falls down, as the £25 contactless fare on HEx doesn't count towards the cap. So anyone who will be doing other travel in London is suddenly paying a huge extra fare compared to EL.

 

[Failed Unit]

50% of tickets sold from Heathrow are going to Paddington. 25% are going to other stations served by the Lizzie line. The rest of the country is very much a minority.


Would reduce congestion east of Airport Junction though.

That is difficult to really establish with split ticketing. For many places, the cheapest way to get to Heathrow is AP to the terminal and then a terminal - heathrow ticket.

I used to do this even when I was using HeX. Effectively 3 different tickets. Now I don't need to use HeX I often have it down to 2.

 

[John R]

50% of tickets sold from Heathrow are going to Paddington. 25% are going to other stations served by the Lizzie line. The rest of the country is very much a minority.


Would reduce congestion east of Airport Junction though.

On the rare occasion when I have used HEx I have bought the tickets separately from my onward rail journey, so I don't think you can assume that 50% of all journeys are just to Paddington.

 

[Bikeman78]

HEx is an air conditioned train with a toilet, proper seating, and plenty pf luggage space.

The Piccadilly Line, on the other hand, is a rattly old train with longitudinal seating. In winter it's freezing cold and in summer it's like a sweatbox. I'd rather pay the extra and spend that hour in comfort, even if it is not any quicker overall. The new trains will bring air con but will otherwise still be cramped and uncomfortable seating.

Clearly plenty of people are willing to use the tube. Six to 12 trains per hour (depending on terminal) and they are all well filled with suitcases.

 

[modernrail]

I think that the Heathrow express has a place to play as an express from Heathrow to the city centre. However it is simply too expensive in its current form and desperately needs a price cut in order to not be wasting paths into Paddington with low passenger numbers .

This is the key point for me.

If Heathrow were thinking about overall customer experience, they would realise it is not in their interests to have customers experience constant overcrowding on the EL whilst HEX trains leave half empty with passengers who have paid an awful lot for the ticket.

Why not reduce the price in HEX to encourage higher take up, reducing the load on the EL and giving all airport users a better experience of using Heathrow.

Something like £12 for EL and £16 for HEX feels about right - or as others have said, include within the daily cap as set at say £18.

 

[whoosh]

You could never get PRIV fares on the Heathrow Express at one time. They were not valid. Are they possible now then ?

I don't think you could get PRIVs when HEX started up, but even going back just over 20 years ago when I used it you could - albeit with time restrictions outside of which only full fare was available.
At some point since then, I believe the time restrictions have been eased/abolished.

 

[Djgr]

Paddington isn’t exactly the city centre.



And no doubt the vast majority of travellers to Paddington will be travelling onwards via tube, in many cases to other London terminals.

There are very few passengers from Heathrow whose final destination is actually within a ten minute walk of Paddington station.

 

[LYuen]

The decline of HEx simply indicate the success of EL - integration into the tube network, direct service to many more London stations, and reasonably comfortable ride.

HEx has potential to reborn by better integration into the TfL network. There are examples around the world that may be adopted, e.g. discounted or free connection to any Zone 1 station, through services to EL central London section, etc.

I think TfL should decide the future HEx soon. Ideally it should be tied with HS2, and the OOC station should be designed for seamless transfer between HS2 and HEx if they want passenger to go this way.

 

[Horizon22]

I think you are correct, I think the HeX allows trains to stop at Slough on the mainline.

Trains no longer stop at Slough on the Main Line - Didcot shuttles do run fast to Slough but cross over. This I believe was a result of the mooted (but now cancelled) fast services to Bristol being completely removed.

 

[yorksrob]

I would wager that most passengers who do buy tickets for it have probably been deceived into thinking it's the only reasonable route into central London.

I found the signage and advertising at Heathrow to be somewhat misleading. You also have annoying pushy staff members circling like vultures ready to sell £25 tickets to unsuspecting visitors - even at stupid o'clock in the morning. It was honestly kind of embarrassing coming back to Heathrow a few weeks back and seeing this, it's not exactly a good welcome (the experience also reminded me how we Brits love completely useless, repetitive "safety" announcements like "Please do not put children on the baggage conveyor belts"). Plus all of the King's Guards imagery - call me unpatriotic, but I'd like to think we could find something better as a country to showcase the UK than a bloke with a dead bear on his head, specific to a small part of London.

Are the stations at Heathrow still plastered with Heathrow Express signs, with one small Elizabeth line poster (Connect when I used it) down by the floor

 

[Horizon22]

HEx has potential to reborn by better integration into the TfL network. There are examples around the world that may be adopted, e.g. discounted or free connection to any Zone 1 station, through services to EL central London section, etc.

The issue fundamentally with this is railway geography. The trains run on the Main line to Paddington. If this is deemed to be wasted capacity, you then look to transfer it to a through service which has 2 problems:

1) The Relief lines are at capacity (10tph off-peak & freight runs on these lines)
2) If you continue running on the Main lines, you would have to cross over at Acton West (still means Relief lines for a bit) or cross over the whole Paddington throat at Ladbroke Grove which is a performance risk

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 20 Dec 2024 ==

They already do this. The Didcot semi-fasts run fast line to Langley before switching to the relief. The HEx path is two minutes behind the Didcot semi-fast. You couldn't put an extra fast path in where the HEx is; as it stands the next fast, a couple of minutes behind the HEx, is right up the back of the semi-fast by Langley.

HEx basically fills dead space.

You could do, but you'd have to recast the entire timetable.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 20 Dec 2024 ==

I must admit the EL fare is more than I expected it to be.

Due to the Heathrow "premium".

 

[signed]

I must admit the EL fare is more than I expected it to be.

Heathrow Airport Authority picks up £5 per ticket that go through the Airport Rail Tunnels (So HX and EL).

 

[yorksrob]

Paddington yes, which is no more remote than any other London terminus.

I think Charing Cross might dispute that.

Wow - £39 for a return, Paddington to Heathrow.

You could go from Leeds to Whitby and back for £15 more quid.

 

[Russel]

Are the HEX trains crewed by GWR staff?

 

[Mikey C]

Clearly plenty of people are willing to use the tube. Six to 12 trains per hour (depending on terminal) and they are all well filled with suitcases.

Apart from the price, it's very convenient for tourists staying in Earls Court, Kensington, Victoria etc

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Are the HEX trains crewed by GWR staff?

If they are, the staff have two sets of separate uniform.

 

[BlueLeanie]

Using scarce paths to run almost empty trains is rarely a good idea. We need to work out a political way forward to cease this.

GWR don't have enough drivers to fill the paths they have at the weekends anyway.

If I understand correctly, the paths are basically useless to GWR because they only go as far as Airport Junction and there isn't the capacity to run them further along the fasts to Reading.

Perhaps that's something the future Mayor of Thames Valley could push forward on, as it's very likely that they will be operating semi & stopper services in BOBshire in the not to distant future and will need paths.

 

[stuu]

That is difficult to really establish with split ticketing. For many places, the cheapest way to get to Heathrow is AP to the terminal and then a terminal - heathrow ticket.

I used to do this even when I was using HeX. Effectively 3 different tickets. Now I don't need to use HeX I often have it down to 2.

Is it? I have done Taunton-Heathrow (route HEX) several times and it has been very little extra compared to a ticket to Paddington

 

[MoominAndChips]

Back in January I arrived into T3 expecting to be mugged at the bottom of the escalator into baggage reclaim as usual, but they were nowhere to be seen.

I was actually in a hurry, so I approached two members of staff at a Heathrow Express stand in landside arrivals to buy a ticket. They just directed me to the Elizabeth Line.

I don't know whether there was something going on that day, but it was surprising.

One additional benefit of the Elizabeth Line: No "Heathrow Express TV"!

 

[Watershed]

For single fares there's a big price difference between EL and the tube. In both cases the fare can be reduced at off-peak times by touching out and in again at Hayes and Harlington (EL) or Hatton Cross (tube); the reason for this is that there are no off peak fares to Heathrow.

But if you have done/will do other travel during the day in London, it depends on that other travel. The Z1-6 cap applies regardless of whether you go by EL or Piccadilly Line.

This is where HEx falls down, as the £25 contactless fare on HEx doesn't count towards the cap. So anyone who will be doing other travel in London is suddenly paying a huge extra fare compared to EL.

It's actually cheapest to split at Ealing Broadway (EAL) and you have a marginally higher - though still very slim - chance of managing to jump back onto the same train, as the gateline is closer to the platform.

At peak times the Liz line frequency at EAL is also higher than Hayes & Harlington, so you are likely to have a shorter wait for the next service, as you get the Reading semifasts which run non-stop between EAL and West Drayton.

 

[43066]

One additional benefit of the Elizabeth Line: No "Heathrow Express TV"!

I seem to remember it was BBC news headlines and weather last time I used it - may well have changed since as it must be a decade or so ago now!

 

[Tetchytyke]

it's actually cheapest to split at Ealing Broadway (EAL)

Thanks, I shall remember that for future reference!

As for HEx, cap+£10 I'd probably pay. There's something to be said for getting straight on a train, even if it does sit in the platform for 10 minutes. Cap+£25 is a bit much.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 20 Dec 2024 ==

Clearly plenty of people are willing to use the tube. Six to 12 trains per hour (depending on terminal) and they are all well filled with suitcases.

I don't disagree. It's not for me, but it's good that people have those options.

 

[Snow1964]

50% of tickets sold from Heathrow are going to Paddington. 25% are going to other stations served by the Lizzie line. The rest of the country is very much a minority.

That's only relevant to those arriving at Heathrow by plane.

Need the return ticket data from UK stations for Brits taking a return trip outwards through Heathrow, because they won't be sold at Heathrow

 

[NickBucks]

I use HEX once a year with the benefit of advance purchase and my Senior Citizens Railcard.Outward to Heathrow as I have always found them reliable and don't wish to miss my outgoing flight.Returning since I have purchased a ticket HEX is the option However last year, with a connection from Marylebone not to be missed the only option was the Elizabeth line as HEX was delayed.
Have any of the posters here actually travelled on the Elizabeth line on a summer Friday after 10.pm? It is not experience I wish to repeat.The problem is not passengers joining at Heathrow but at the intermediate stations.I am a guy,albeit elderly,who can look after himself. I would not like to be a young female travelling alone on the Elizabeth line at that time.
Looking forward it will be interesting to see what the proposal is when the government sanction T5 which I am sure they will.HEX extension or Elizabeth line ?

 

[Krokodil]

That's only relevant to those arriving at Heathrow by plane.

Need the return ticket data from UK stations for Brits taking a return trip outwards through Heathrow, because they won't be sold at Heathrow

Passenger flow data isn't that clever, it shows the same numbers for both directions.

Incidentally I used Heathrow T4 as my sample as I couldn't get the other stations to appear in the search box.