Has National Express scaled back its services?

[kernowbususer]

As accurate as Traveline where it gets the data from and it also dosent include the airport services or shuttle (low numbered) services as they have a different operator code. It's better to use the source which may be more up to date:

http://www.travelinesoutheast.org.uk/se/XSLT_SELTT_REQUEST?language=en

Click on 'Find a timetable' then enter 'National' in the operators name and press enter and all the operators are show, select one and the timetables are shown.

I understand that that a National Coach Service Database is a separate data set to the Traveline data sets.

The open data website describes the database as

The National Coach Services Database (NCSD) consists of schedule (timetable) data for several mainland UK coach services not contained in the Traveline National Dataset (TNDS). It may therefore be regarded as supplementary to Traveline data, as opposed to being a dataset describing a geographically complete national coach network.

The following operators' services are included in NCSD - National Express, Megabus (excepting Megabus services solely within Scotland, which are included in Traveline data), EasyBus, New Bharat Coaches.

 

[AnonymousUser1]

It also had silly economics. I looked at catching it between Keighley and Glasgow a couple of years ago. It was cheaper and faster to get an open rail return - without having to commit to a particular time (or date for the return) or buy in advance.

also perhaps reflecting that ' Little Scotland's ' links with the west of Scotland are diminishing ...

 

[carlberry]

It's a system that might have been good 30+ years ago when it was designed, but as you've all pointed out things have changed, so services have been added on/taken off and has left us with this complicated network left.

I'm not sure it was ever 'designed'. National Express was a marketing name and livery given to the coach services that NBC acquired when it was formed a lot of which were part of regional 'pools' that dated back to the 1930s or even earlier. Since then it's been changed to reflect travel patterns with the biggest changes being the early 1980s when coach deregulation happened and recent years with the impact of Megabus. The network today is fairly simple compared with what it was like in the 1970s.

 

[extendedpaul]

On 15 September Megabus opened bookings for the period from 22 December to 7 January. I was online at the time. While there were tickets from £1 to/from London and Manchester, Leeds, Newcastle etc, fares on routes along the M4 corridor for journeys between 22 December and 2 January started at something like £25.30 from the first ticket sold for travel in either direction between London Victoria and Bristol or South Wales. From 3 January normal fares resumed and I got my desired £2.50 return! I assumed this was linked to the Paddington Station closure over Christmas although bizarrely some Megabus fares on Christmas Day and Boxing Day were priced slightly less than on 27 -30 December. Several complaints followed on twitter, all robustly rebuffed claiming "competitive pricing"and prices did not change. I had a look at National Express and indeed their fares were about 10% higher on the same routes. Megabus presumably just followed suit.

I have noticed that in the last week or so fares have been reduced by both operators on many journeys on these routes to below £10. Presmably a business decision by one or other operator which their competitor matched and might be a goodwill gesture to sell the last few seats cheaply or else might mean bookings are below expectations. I've no idea, but it didn't happen in 2016 when fares were a lot lower in the first place. Only yesterday (30 December) Megabus tweeted about low fares on 1 January and what was once over £25 is now under £10 so, unusually for coach travel, a bargain for late bookers.

 

[Typhoon]

I live in East Kent. We used to have one early morning, one midday and one afternoon journey to London with returns from midday onwards. The majority of passengers appeared to be day passengers (in that I would recognise them on the return journey). Consequently the first coach was pretty full at worst, later ones half empty at best.

The service was rejigged (revised stopping points), later departure, longer journey, later arrival, fewer day passengers.

Now we are reduced to one journey a day. Arrives after midday, departs late afternoon so day returns have really lost their usefulness for most. Numbers seen at the nearest stop awaiting the coach and on the coach prior to/ post Christmas - minimal, when it used to be busy.

Clearly the original schedule wasn't paying but I cannot see how the new schedule is either. I know of other places that have had the frequency reduced to the bare bones with passenger numbers dropping off as a consequence.

Maybe NEx need to look at their whole offer rather than making adjustments every so often to save money if they want their business to survive.

I should point out that we have no Megabus, train fares are the same whether you book 10 weeks or 10 minutes in advance and the cost of an off-peak fare is not a great deal more than the NEx Standard fare. Also some areas have (virtually) retained their service at a similar level, particularly those with University provision. Perhaps NEx need to concentrate on these?

 

[Statto]

Just found a full list of National Express timetables & fares, normally only available to National Express Agents.
https://www.nxagents.com/theguide/

 

[Welshman]

Just found a full list of National Express timetables & fares, normally only available to National Express Agents.
https://www.nxagents.com/theguide/

Unfortunately I cannot get access to that site as I'm not an agent.

 

[radamfi]

Unfortunately I cannot get access to that site as I'm not an agent.

I can access it and I'm not an agent. Interesting to see the walk on fares.

 

[F Great Eastern]

Glad they update the agents with latest downloadable timetables.

Shame that they don't bother updating the PDFs on their own site - in some cases they completely removed them!

 

[Statto]

Glad they update the agents with latest downloadable timetables.

Shame that they don't bother updating the PDFs on their own site - in some cases they completely removed them!

Indeed, i tried looking for the new 375 timetable on the main site typed Llandudno in the timetable search section & it gave me the timetable from Aberystwyth instead which doesn't go near Llandudno, in fact Aberystwyth is the nearest stop to Llandudno on that route.

 

[Welshman]

Unfortunately I cannot get access to that site as I'm not an agent.

My apologies - must have been doing something wrong - I can now open it.

 

[F Great Eastern]

Indeed, i tried looking for the new 375 timetable on the main site typed Llandudno in the timetable search section & it gave me the timetable from Aberystwyth instead which doesn't go near Llandudno, in fact Aberystwyth is the nearest stop to Llandudno on that route.

I take it back - they've actually now uploaded the same timetables used by agents to their own website for a lot of routes which is about bloody time too - but Google will still pick up the old ones.

The timetable section was pointing towards this for a long time for the 250:
http://www.nationalexpress.com/assets/uploads/pdf/timetables/R250.pdf

It now points to:
http://www.nationalexpress.com/nxportal2/pdf/timetables/250.pdf

It only took them 8 months to fix it after changing the timetable and of course replacing the old PDF with the new one was too much to ask.

The beta site that I get redirected to automatically still points to the out of date link though.

 

[185]

Lol.... Manchester Buxton on the 441 is now £39 return.

Tenerife is £4 more with certain airlines

 

[Statto]

Lol.... Manchester Buxton on the 441 is now £39 return.

Tenerife is £4 more with certain airlines

Anytime Day Return is £16.80, with Off Peak being £10.70 on Northern Rail.

 

[route101]

Citylink is similar , the main routes to Inverness and Aberdeen etc have cheap tickets yet the route to Skye has expensive fares .

 

[radamfi]

Lol.... Manchester Buxton on the 441 is now £39 return.

That is presumably what you pay if you get the ticket from the driver. If you get it from the ticket office or agent, even on the day, it might be cheaper. On that particular route, NX sell tickets online for use on the TP bus as well as the 441. Searching for services for today shows fares on TP from £5.20 single and from £12.50 for tomorrow on the 441, plus £1 booking fee.

 

[Statto]

Citylink is similar , the main routes to Inverness and Aberdeen etc have cheap tickets yet the route to Skye has expensive fares .

There were posts on that a couple of months back, seem to remember day return Glasgow to Skye around £60, you only have 50 minutes break in Skye before the return journey starts.

 

[Statto]

The rot started when NEX got rid of the Rapid concept, which was an attendant serving snacks/sandwiches & hot & cold drinks, interesting some services now have timetabled breaks at motorway services, not exactly ideal given the prices motorway services charge, then Megabus came in passengers started using them instead.

 

[Bungle965]

The rot started when NEX got rid of the Rapid concept, which was an attendant serving snacks/sandwiches & hot & cold drinks, interesting some services now have timetabled breaks at motorway services, not exactly ideal given the prices motorway services charge, then Megabus came in passengers started using them instead.

When I used a London service from Manchester we stopped at Norton Canes.
Expensive even for service stations, I remember a sandwich was around the £4 mark.
Sam

 

[F Great Eastern]

When I took Eurolines to Cork a good few years ago and stopped at some service stations the prices shocked me as well - both were Welcome Break.

 

[radamfi]

When I used a London service from Manchester we stopped at Norton Canes.
Expensive even for service stations, I remember a sandwich was around the £4 mark.
Sam

Coaches that stop at the services don't need to pay the toll:

https://www.m6toll.co.uk/using-the-m6toll/offers/

Megabus use the M6 Toll road as well, but prefer not to stop and their coaches have an electronic tag. Presumably Megabus have negotiated a good rate.

 

[Flying Snail]

The rot started when NEX got rid of the Rapid concept, which was an attendant serving snacks/sandwiches & hot & cold drinks, interesting some services now have timetabled breaks at motorway services, not exactly ideal given the prices motorway services charge, then Megabus came in passengers started using them instead.

They appear to be scratching around in the dark, the "Shuttle" concept also dying a death abandoning the walk-up market of frequent regular services. Add to that their strange fleet choices, ditching double decks completely and the focus on Levantes despite their obvious flaws, then to go back to luggage space compromised DDs by putting them on airport runs of all places with predictable results.

There is a distinct impression of a management team that don't really know their business very well.

The sudden ditching of Eurolines is a right mess with the replacement OuiBus services not integrated yet and no provision at all for former destinations now not served all the while the likes of the north and south corridor Irish services still running under Eurolines branding even though they are in fact direct NX contracts. If you were going to switch such an integral part of your network like that why wouldn't you have the new arrangements ready before severing the old ones?

Their website is equally shambolic, several different versions active with different layouts, timetables are sporadically available but not the full network and then there is the very odd situation with the travel pass. There used to be a BritExplorer ticket; 7, 14 or 21 days which disappeared over a year ago. There seems to be a similar replacement, called Skimmer, now an e-ticket of sorts with online booking. The only problem is that it is not advertised or linked to at all from their website bar one line in a FAQ that you can really only find if you already know the name of this new product. Once you get this link it goes to a different version of the website with booking for the ticket and a link to an older booking engine that includes a procedure to use the pass to book individual journeys which is not possible on the main website either.

Coaches that stop at the services don't need to pay the toll:

https://www.m6toll.co.uk/using-the-m6toll/offers/

Megabus use the M6 Toll road as well, but prefer not to stop and their coaches have an electronic tag. Presumably Megabus have negotiated a good rate.

Megabus also seem to prefer using local drivers with swap-overs whereas NX have drivers taking coaches straight through including their 45min breaks at services or stations or even having 2 drivers on board throughout swapping over. I guess that is the consequence of sub-contracting to smaller operators that may not have staff based in appropriate locations to swap. Even accounting for the tendering to sub-contractors who presumably cut their prices to win it must be a more expensive way to run services than the Megabus.

I have to say I was surprised the first time I was on a London-Scotland run to see the entire front row of a 51 seater blocked off so 1 of the 2 drivers doing the full London - Aberdeen run could kip while the other drove. On an otherwise fully booked coach it seemed to be a less than optimal way of running things, 4 seats that couldn't be sold as well as 2 drivers who had to be paid for the whole run plus whatever overnight (or day) rest facilities they had in the remote location before returning the next day.

 

[telstarbox]

A bit of theorising here but the advent of autonomous vehicles could see the end of the long-distance coach market. At the moment coach passengers have one or more of the following characteristics:
- Doesn't own a vehicle (affordability or can't/won't drive)
- Favours a direct journey (e.g. Liverpool to Clacton, or an airport run with luggage)
- Price sensitive (so not using rail, or air for markets like London-Scotland)

If, as predicted, the move to autonomous vehicles leads to "mobility as a service" * rather than owning a vehicle outright and driving it yourself, at least the first two become less important - and over time the price would be expected to come down as well, as the time utilisation of autonomous vehicles would be higher.

High-speed rail and air will face the same pressures but would presumably maintain a speed advantage over road transport.

* https://www.economist.com/news/inte...und-will-transform-transportand-cities-too-it

 

[freetoview33]

Another service that has been scaled back a lot is the shorts between Heathrow and Gatwick.

 

[goblinuser]

A bit of theorising here but the advent of autonomous vehicles could see the end of the long-distance coach market. At the moment coach passengers have one or more of the following characteristics:
- Doesn't own a vehicle (affordability or can't/won't drive)
- Favours a direct journey (e.g. Liverpool to Clacton, or an airport run with luggage)
- Price sensitive (so not using rail, or air for markets like London-Scotland)

If, as predicted, the move to autonomous vehicles leads to "mobility as a service" * rather than owning a vehicle outright and driving it yourself, at least the first two become less important - and over time the price would be expected to come down as well, as the time utilisation of autonomous vehicles would be higher.

High-speed rail and air will face the same pressures but would presumably maintain a speed advantage over road transport.

* https://www.economist.com/news/inte...und-will-transform-transportand-cities-too-it

Electric coaches are more efficient and thus cheaper than individual vehicles. I don't think buses and coaches will be killed by ai vehicles.

 

[Bletchleyite]

And autonomous electric vehicles will still get stuck in traffic jams. People seem to discuss them as if they make all the problems of cars go away - they don't - they solve just two of them - driver incompetence (and by extension accessibility to non-drivers) and pollution *at the point of use* (as long as we aren't generating all electricity from renewables/nuclear they still pollute in some form).

 

[WelshBluebird]

And autonomous electric vehicles will still get stuck in traffic jams. People seem to discuss them as if they make all the problems of cars go away - they don't - they solve just two of them - driver incompetence (and by extension accessibility to non-drivers) and pollution *at the point of use* (as long as we aren't generating all electricity from renewables/nuclear they still pollute in some form).

I don't think anyone is claiming they will totally solve traffic jams though.
What people are saying is because their driving will be more predictable, and because they will be able to drive in a way responding to other traffic up ahead, they will be more efficient at driving through busy areas.

 

[Bletchleyite]

They will, but it still remains the case that it is not efficient use of road space to have one person taking up about 10 square metres of road space plus safety spacing as a car, whether automated or not, does.

I see it as more likely that it will harm off-peak local bus and possibly small branch lines - people will use these better value "taxis" to get to and from the trunk journey which will be by (automated) train or road coach. No doubt when booking you can even arrange that at the same time.

 

[TrainfanBen]

Having seen the size of the old "Guide book" reduce, I can see why it to my knowledge became individual sheets in a lever arch file rather than a useful A4 ish size publication.

I don't know if this trend has continued, however.

 

[Mugby]

Just looking for some times from Northampton, northwards to Leicester or Nottingham and I see that in almost every case you have to travel south to Milton Keynes Coachway and change before heading north. The resultant journey times are three and a half hours or more which makes them not at all attractive.

It's a bit ironic that Northampton had far better express services in the old days of United Counties and the MX1 / MX5 services from Nottingham to London!