Has National Express scaled back its services?

[anti-pacer]

When I worked for them back in 2006-7 there were coach routes that appear to be withdrawn or scaled back.

I remember from Nottingham the 537 Corby-Glasgow service, which appears to be no longer. The 38x (can't remember the number) service that between Newcastle and Edinburgh ran via Jedburgh, no longer. The 534 Hull Docks-Glasgow, you've guessed it, no longer. Even the 011 Cambridge-London seems less frequent.

Are NX not doing very well in their coach division anymore?

 

[Butts]

When I worked for them back in 2006-7 there were coach routes that appear to be withdrawn or scaled back.

I remember from Nottingham the 537 Corby-Glasgow service, which appears to be no longer. The 38x (can't remember the number) service that between Newcastle and Edinburgh ran via Jedburgh, no longer. The 534 Hull Docks-Glasgow, you've guessed it, no longer. Even the 011 Cambridge-London seems less frequent.

Are NX not doing very well in their coach division anymore?

Well I am currently onboard Service 323 which left Newport at 0815 heading for Birmingham. There are about six other people onboard.

I have used the Cardiff/Newport to Birmingham quite a bit recently and have rarely seen one more than a third full.

Todays Driver leaves a lot to be desired - no welcome announcements or information provision. We are well ahead of time as the roads are quiet being Christmas Eve.

For some reason we stopped at Worcester Warriors Park and Ride (Warndon) no one ever gets on or off there whilst I've been travelling.

Suspect the Driver may have nipped off for a fag - thank's for inviting us to join you !!! - not a word was spoken.

At least I got an exit seat !!!

 

[extendedpaul]

Does National Express still have a legal obligation to provide a minimum level of service on at least some routes ? I seem to recall reading on this forum that at least used to be the case.

There are some very lightly used routes. I often see a service 455 coach leave Victoria at midday for Northampton with never more than a few people on board and sometimes nobody. Also some of the airport services between Gatwick, Heathrow and South Wales have few passengers, possibly linked to the recent Megabus competition on that route

 

[Wirewiper]

I can't imagine National Express are legally obliged to operate anything, unless part of any service is supported by a local authority on the grounds of social need.

The philosophy behind NEx's Airport Routes is not fill-em-up-and-send-em-out-cheap, but to have regular services with seats always available in case travellers miss their booked departure due to flight and/or airport delays. In that sense having half-full coaches can be seen as a positive, as potential travellers will be reassured that they won't get stranded when it is no fault of their own. I wonder how Megabus deals with passengers who have missed their booked departure from Heathrow, by the way?

 

[PeterC]

Does National Express still have a legal obligation to provide a minimum level of service on at least some routes ? I seem to recall reading on this forum that at least used to be the case.

There are some very lightly used routes. I often see a service 455 coach leave Victoria at midday for Northampton with never more than a few people on board and sometimes nobody. Also some of the airport services between Gatwick, Heathrow and South Wales have few passengers, possibly linked to the recent Megabus competition on that route

But what is that vehicle's loading on the inbound journey? What is the loading after leaving Golders Green? Is it better to carry a handful of paying passengers on the return or to run "not in service" all the way to Northampton?

 

[extendedpaul]

I wasn't intending to criticise National Express, just curious, and yes I'm sure there are journeys which run almost full in one direction and almost empty in the other at certain times of the day plus vice versa. Happens of course with trains and local buses in the same way. As for Megabus there was a tweet recently from a customer complaining they had to wait over 3 hours at Heathrow when their booked coach to Bristol or Cardiiff did not show. That probably wouldn't happen with Nat Exp.

 

[telstarbox]

Purely anecdotal but every time I've priced up a coach journey recently, Megabus has been either cheaper or cheaper and faster for the same time period.

 

[extendedpaul]

Perhaps getting OT but I'm rather chuffed that my diary tells me I've booked 53 Megabus journeys from London to Cardiff or back in 2017 @ £1. Two cost £3 each, one booked the week of travel due to a change of plan was £5 and there were 10 free ones last January and February when they had the free seats promotion. Total spend including the 50p booking fees (which each usually covered several journeys) about £80. I make the trip once a fortnight but sometimes book on two different days to give some flexibility so about 25 actual returns . Only two delays over 30 minutes all year and early arrival more often than not. I am understandably very pro-Megabus.

I check their website several times a day when I suspect more.tickets are about to go on sale and can be flexible when i travel to get £1 tickets.

 

[Qwerty133]

When I worked for them back in 2006-7 there were coach routes that appear to be withdrawn or scaled back.

I remember from Nottingham the 537 Corby-Glasgow service, which appears to be no longer. The 38x (can't remember the number) service that between Newcastle and Edinburgh ran via Jedburgh, no longer. The 534 Hull Docks-Glasgow, you've guessed it, no longer. Even the 011 Cambridge-London seems less frequent.

Are NX not doing very well in their coach division anymore?

If the Glasgow to Corby has ended that is a recent development and quite honestly makes sense considering how late it often was

 

[Bletchleyite]

If the Glasgow to Corby has ended that is a recent development and quite honestly makes sense considering how late it often was

Why not, er, just change the timetable?

 

[Robertj21a]

If the Glasgow to Corby has ended that is a recent development and quite honestly makes sense considering how late it often was

The Kettering/Corby end finished about a month ago I think. It carried very few passengers in recent times - presumably the generations of Scots have changed to other modes or no longer have the contacts to visit up/down there.

 

[Dentonian]

I'm afraid, I can't grasp the economics of coaching, especially megabus. How much does it cost to run a coach from, say, Manchester to London and back? 9, probably 10 hours drivers wages and 400 miles worth of diesel at full cost. Surely at least £250-£300. The coaches are about 50 seaters and if the service is non stop,each seat can only occupy one fare-paying passenger each way. So even assuming a full coach that has to be a guaranteed average of £3 each way before talking about fixed costs and profit. Yet, the same company are not satisfied with buses of various ages and no creature comforts carrying probably 150 passengers in less than 2 hours at an average (with concessionary make up) of nearly £2 per head. So they are getting, the same £300 for just over two hours driver's wages and 15 miles worth of diesel (with 63% tax rebated.....eventually). Unless, of course, Stagecoach Manchester drivers are on £60-£100 an hour for their normal rostered work. No, I thought not.

 

[radamfi]

The average on Megabus is probably a lot more than it appears. Keen early bookers will get the £1 to £5 fares, but most of the money is probably made in last minute sales.

One way fares from Manchester to London for the next few days:

25 December: £31 to £35.50
26 December: £15.30 to £35.70
27 December: £19 to £35.70
28 December: £15 to £20
29 December: £13.30 to £25.30

Megabus can be almost as expensive as the train now that Virgin do on the day Advance fares for about £38.

 

[Typhoon]

The average on Megabus is probably a lot more than it appears. Keen early bookers will get the £1 to £5 fares, but most of the money is probably made in last minute sales.

The fares from Manchester to London for the next few days:

25 December: £31 to £35.50
26 December: £15.30 to £35.70
27 December: £19 to £35.70
27 December: £15 to £20
27 December: £13.30 to 25.30

Do you mean

28 December: £15 to £20
29 December: £13.30 to 25.30 ?

 

[radamfi]

Do you mean

28 December: £15 to £20
29 December: £13.30 to 25.30 ?

Yes. I've corrected it.

 

[Dentonian]

The average on Megabus is probably a lot more than it appears. Keen early bookers will get the £1 to £5 fares, but most of the money is probably made in last minute sales.

One way fares from Manchester to London for the next few days:

25 December: £31 to £35.50
26 December: £15.30 to £35.70
27 December: £19 to £35.70
28 December: £15 to £20
29 December: £13.30 to £25.30

Megabus can be almost as expensive as the train now that Virgin do on the day Advance fares for about £38.

Ah! I thought the majority of people booked well in advance - especially as they are often cash-strapped Students who know exactly when term-time starts/finishes or when "gigs" are on etc. Incidentally, on the few occasions I have travelled by megabus it has been nowhere near full - albeit the one time I went to London on it (2009), we did fill up with extra passengers from Newcastle at Newport Pagnell because Stagecoach NE wanted their E400 and driver back!

 

[overthewater]

Your still be surprised how many people try and buy a ticket on the coach with Megabus with mins to spare. If there are seats free or no shows happen then, the duty person will happily take the £30-£35. There still time when people get left behind. 537 Corby-Glasgow service was a bonkers service, It was quicker going to London. I think the Nat express was designed in the 1980s and was never updated to the current demands...
I still dont know why Megabus doesn't get its scottish service to stop at Northampton services.

 

[route101]

When I worked for them back in 2006-7 there were coach routes that appear to be withdrawn or scaled back.

I remember from Nottingham the 537 Corby-Glasgow service, which appears to be no longer. The 38x (can't remember the number) service that between Newcastle and Edinburgh ran via Jedburgh, no longer. The 534 Hull Docks-Glasgow, you've guessed it, no longer. Even the 011 Cambridge-London seems less frequent.

Are NX not doing very well in their coach division anymore?

The 534 Hull service used to go via Jedburgh , it now goes down the A1 . The service provided a direct bus from Glasgow to Gala and Jedburgh ,
Not sure if the 534 goes to Leeds now and the 537 to Sheffield .I think the 537 went via a65 and Skipton .
There was also NX services from Glasgow to Wrexham and Cardiff . I think Wrexham got cut back to Chester and now is a Birmingham service .
The main NX services are the Glasgow to London ones , not really any cross country ones . Plymouth still runs .

 

[Dentonian]

Your still be surprised how many people try and buy a ticket on the coach with Megabus with mins to spare. If there are seats free or no shows happen then, the duty person will happily take the £30-£35. There still time when people get left behind. 537 Corby-Glasgow service was a bonkers service, It was quicker going to London. I think the Nat express was designed in the 1980s and was never updated to the current demands...
I still dont know why Megabus doesn't get its scottish service to stop at Northampton services.

I thought megabus was internet sales only - absolutely no cash.

I think NatEx, in retaliation to British Coachways, proved that Coach de-regulation was almost as big a failure as bus deregulation. The only saving grace is that very few people depend on coaches to reach essential services and jobs, whilst millions need buses for such access. Students might disagree, but it is that demographic that has benefitted as the desired "target market". Coaching now is run along the "Henry Ford" mantra. You can travel from Manchester to anywhere in Britain, provided it starts with "L" ie. Liverpool, Leeds and obviously London. OK, a slight exaggeration, but virtually every other route has been cut back or journey times/routings lengthened in the last 20 years or so. The route from Manchester to Sheffield (and beyond) is a classic. In years gone by it has stopped variously at Hyde (pop. 35,000 with bus or rail links to numerous neighbouring towns), Denton (ditto), Reddish Bridge (interchange point for Denton, Gorton and north Stockport) and Belle Vue (inner city area walking distance from Gorton and road links to corridors north and south). These have all gone, and instead the first stop east of Manchester is Hollingworth (a village right on the edge of GM, in a dip and the only connection being to Glossop). By passing Denton and Hyde is understandable due to the M67 alternative, though at peak times I suspect it actually costs time. However, there is no logic whatsoever in not stopping at either Belle Vue or Reddish Bridge as you have to pass the stops!

 

[Martin1988]

To some extent I'd say yes. Since about 2009 the number of weekend and seasonal extras seem to have been scaled back. For example some journeys that previously ran on Friday and Sunday only have in recent years been reduced to only operate on Sundays and other weekend and seasonal diagrams have been dropped altogether.
For example, the 318 between Bristol and Birmingham and the 322 (now 344) between Swansea and Birmingham both previously operated on Friday and Sunday but now only run on Sunday.

In addition, here in Bristol the frequency of the 040 (Bristol to London) was cut back in May. There are now slightly fewer journeys across all days and but mid week (between Tuesday and Thursday) it seems to run up to every 90 minutes at times. In addition I've also noticed fewer dupes operating in recent years, in particular on cross country services.

However in other ways I'd say there's been improvements to services, in particular the cross country ones. The introduction of services such as the 532 service from Plymouth to Edinburgh and 334 from Bournemouth to Edinburgh have created additional connectional opportunities (Mainly in Birmingham) that weren't previously available. In addition on the 040 the half hourly frequency on Friday and Sunday was also increased a few years ago after South Gloucestershire Bus and Coach took over a number of journeys Chalfont worked and began working them from the Bristol end.

Also feel there are some occasions where NX have been too quick to cut services. For example I always felt the 301 between Bristol and Oxford had a lot of potential. The short lived 331 between Bristol and Birmingham and the 529 between Leeds and Birmingham also could have worked well if the timings had been different. The way they were timed very few connections were available onto other services at Digbeth.

There have also been times when connections have been lost due to the retiming of services but at the same time instances where this has enabled new connecting journeys to be added.

 

[radamfi]

I thought megabus was internet sales only - absolutely no cash.

In Scotland, Megabus and Citylink are integrated and are the main provider of coach services within Scotland. Megabus generally provides the main coach services between the major cities with Citylink providing the stopping service. There is also Citylink Gold which are the fastest services, but aren't as frequent as Megabus. Edinburgh to Glasgow is "normal" Citylink.

In Scotland, it is quite normal to buy coach tickets on the day for immediate travel from the bus station. There is not so much emphasis on booking ahead, either online or at the ticket office. In general, coaches are a bigger player in the overall transport market compared to England, as there is less difference in journey time between coach and train in Scotland.

London Victoria and Manchester Shudehill also have Megabus ticket offices.

Birmingham is National Express' main point for interchange (other than London Victoria) and the network was built as such back in the 70s, when it replaced Cheltenham as the country's coach hub. Manchester is really just a destination, rather than a changing point. On the other hand, Megabus serve Manchester rather better than Birmingham, probably because Megabus is relegated to city street bus stops in Birmingham.

 

[route101]

In Scotland, Megabus and Citylink are integrated and are the main provider of coach services within Scotland. Megabus generally provides the main coach services between the major cities with Citylink providing the stopping service. There is also Citylink Gold which are the fastest services, but aren't as frequent as Megabus. Edinburgh to Glasgow is "normal" Citylink.

In Scotland, it is quite normal to buy coach tickets on the day for immediate travel from the bus station. There is not so much emphasis on booking ahead, either online or at the ticket office. In general, coaches are a bigger player in the overall transport market compared to England, as there is less difference in journey time between coach and train in Scotland.

London Victoria and Manchester Shudehill also have Megabus ticket offices.

Birmingham is National Express' main point for interchange (other than London Victoria) and the network was built as such back in the 70s, when it replaced Cheltenham as the country's coach hub. Manchester is really just a destination, rather than a changing point. On the other hand, Megabus serve Manchester rather better than Birmingham, probably because Megabus is relegated to city street bus stops in Birmingham.

On the Glasgow - Aberdeen route the megabus operates as M9 or M11 if if its going to and from London . The citylink gold are part of timetable and are the fastest ones , around same time as train as they skip Dundee .
The coaches can sell out online on the long distance routes though .

 

[overthewater]

The coaches can sell out online on the long distance routes though .

Hence why there put out Dups ; )

 

[F Great Eastern]

I always prefer the train so that will always be my first choice unless there are extensive engineering works or the fares are expensive and the coach prices very cheap (like £5 Stratford - Ipswich)

The only regular coach trips I make are National Express to Stansted Airport from Essex/Suffolk, but I tend to only do this for early departures from Stansted and late arrivals lately since the prices have increased to the point where advances on the train are only a couple of quid more expensive and services are much more frequent.

Unfortunately Megabus are not in Suffolk or Essex but when I've been elsewhere in the country I've always found them faster and cheaper than National Express.

I once booked Birmingham - Manchester return for £2 on Megabus.

 

[radamfi]

Unfortunately Megabus are not in Suffolk or Essex but when I've been elsewhere in the country I've always found them faster and cheaper than National Express.

They are faster because they concentrate on the main destinations only and don't serve as many intermediate towns as National Express. Megabus also have fewer refreshment breaks.

 

[Butts]

They are faster because they concentrate on the main destinations only and don't serve as many intermediate towns as National Express. Megabus also have fewer refreshment breaks.

They are not faster between Cardiff and Birmingham than National Express and have fewer services !!

 

[Bletchleyite]

I think the main issue with NatEx is the complexity which means you only really use it if you know it serves you. I think they could simplify significantly without breaking what they do quite well (a wider range of service than Megabus).

 

[theblackwatch]

I wish I still had copies of my National Express coach timetables from the mid-late 80s (ebay wants £15-20 for them!). I'm sure there were many more services than there are now. Or perhaps I'm looking at it with rose-tinted specs!

 

[F Great Eastern]

It's nearly impossible to even get a timetable on their website these days - the ones that are there are out of date and completely at odds with the journey planner!

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I wish I still had copies of my National Express coach timetables from the mid-late 80s (ebay wants £15-20 for them!). I'm sure there were many more services than there are now. Or perhaps I'm looking at it with rose-tinted specs!

I don't think you are. There were more services but.....

• Some travel patterns have changed
• Megabus has had an impact
• Most importantly, Rail has been very good at filling up spare capacity with cheaper deals