Has anyone fallen out of a HST?

[O L Leigh]

Wasn't there several incidents in the late 80s/early 90s in the Lichfield area?

Yup. I remember this too. It made the news because of the number of apparent door failures on the same stretch of line. I imagine these were mostly A/C Mk2s (Mk2E/F...?) and possibly Mk3s.

O L Leigh

 

[scotsman]

Errr you're saying that HSTs shouldn't have CDL. Just to come to a clear understanding here.

So what happens when you're doing 125MPH and little Johny leans on the door and it opens?

Then someone didn't realise the door wasn't shut whatsoever, in which case the presence of CDL makes no difference.

AFAIK - If a door is shut properly, only the handle being used, or a sizeable force against it, will open it. If the door has been shut, but not properly, it will sit on the catch and, again, will not open unless a handle or hefty force is used against it.

 

[150222]

Errr you're saying that HSTs shouldn't have CDL. Just to come to a clear understanding here.

So what happens when you're doing 125MPH and little Johny leans on the door and it opens?

Yes I am and it won't happen. Firstly there are no handles inside and as long as the doors are modified slightly to ensure they won't open it is perfectly safe. Even better if the CDL came on at around 30 mph. Anyway why would little Johny be leaning on the door? If he was leaning out of the window at that speed he would most likely fall out anyway

 

[lookingforit35]

Many carefree commuters would open the doors on their 423s whilst arriving at Waterloo in the 1980s and 90s, casually "surfing the platform" by standing on the wooden step until the speed was slow enough to take a running jump off.

Sounds like jolly japes but I always thought it would only take an accidental nudge for somebody to fall off and harm themselves. Luckily I never saw it happen.

Thinking about it, if you were stood by the door, folk behind you would "tut" if you did NOT open it way before coming to a halt.

 

[ChrisCooper]

Many carefree commuters would open the doors on their 423s whilst arriving at Waterloo in the 1980s and 90s, casually "surfing the platform" by standing on the wooden step until the speed was slow enough to take a running jump off.

Sounds like jolly japes but I always thought it would only take an accidental nudge for somebody to fall off and harm themselves. Luckily I never saw it happen.

Thinking about it, if you were stood by the door, folk behind you would "tut" if you did NOT open it way before coming to a halt.

Same could happen on open platform buses. Doesn't seem to bother TFL though.

In regard to leaning on doors and them coming open, incase anyone things the problem only applies to slam door stock, you wouldn't have wanted to be leaning against this door http://raib.gov.uk/cms_resources.cfm?file=/070830_R312007_Desborough.pdf

 

[ChiefPlanner]

BRB operations did a very detailed study on train casualties with regard to the "Tamworth" triangle etc - there was a very high correlation between casulties and alcahol consumption. One fellow had a toxicology report which was (I recall) the highest ever recorded by the local coroner's office.

 

[table38]

Also I think there was one case where a door flew open, and the outside handle caused a dent in the side of the carriage which showed that the handle was not horizontal, so the door wasn't closed properly and was "on the catch" as it were.

I think this led to the yellow strips being added to the door edges so that it was easier to see if a door was slightly open before dispatching the train.

 

[transmanche]

Not really sure about that article/video's claims that the scooter would derail a Metro train - the scooters themselves are largely plastic while the train would almost certainly be slowing to stop at the platform anyway.

That's clearly not true, as the Look North report of the incident at Brockley Whins showed a Northern DMU approaching at 70mph on the opposite track. Now imagine if the train doors had also come detached from the Metro unit?

Irrespective of whether or not the approaching train was derailed, there was the potential for multiple fatalities in that incident.

 

[Oswyntail]

I recall reading in a article in Rail magazine dating from as recent as 1996 that has a report of a man jumping from a HST after a fire inside, and being struck by a passing train.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/train-doors-in-urgent-safety-review-1325206.html .

 

[Roylang]

Many carefree commuters would open the doors on their 423s whilst arriving at Waterloo in the 1980s and 90s, casually "surfing the platform" by standing on the wooden step until the speed was slow enough to take a running jump off.

Sounds like jolly japes but I always thought it would only take an accidental nudge for somebody to fall off and harm themselves. Luckily I never saw it happen.

Thinking about it, if you were stood by the door, folk behind you would "tut" if you did NOT open it way before coming to a halt.

The risk was not just to those who did the surfing...

I saw somebody on the platform at London Bridge get completely wiped out by somebody who did this and got off the train when it was still going a little too fast. The guy from the train seemed to think that it was all the fault of the person on the platform (who had been facing the other way) who should have got out of the way :roll:

Roy

 

[trentside]

Yes I am and it won't happen. Firstly there are no handles inside and as long as the doors are modified slightly to ensure they won't open it is perfectly safe. Even better if the CDL came on at around 30 mph. Anyway why would little Johny be leaning on the door? If he was leaning out of the window at that speed he would most likely fall out anyway

The problem if the CDL comes on once the train reaches 30mph is it will encourage people running for the train to try and open the doors when the train is departing. This puts them at enormous risk - same as the man at Oxford - as well as anyone onboard the train. Even at 30mph or less they're risking serious injury or death. There's also the risk of the train setting off with the door open, and it potentially getting damaged.

 

[142094]

Not really sure about that article/video's claims that the scooter would derail a Metro train - the scooters themselves are largely plastic while the train would almost certainly be slowing to stop at the platform anyway.

Missed this last night. A scooter itself probably wouldn't be able to derail a Metro, but would cause damage to the underside, and if the person was still on the track, would certainly cause major injuries if not kill the person. All of these accidents were at stations, so a Metro would be slowing down, but if it happened in between stations it would cause a bigger risk. This isn't taking into account what happens to the doors as well, as someone else has said.

Now, if a Northern/freight/GC service were to hit a scooter going at top speed, it could potentially derail the train.

 

[Roylang]

Missed this last night. A scooter itself probably wouldn't be able to derail a Metro, but would cause damage to the underside, and if the person was still on the track, would certainly cause major injuries if not kill the person. All of these accidents were at stations, so a Metro would be slowing down, but if it happened in between stations it would cause a bigger risk. This isn't taking into account what happens to the doors as well, as someone else has said.

Now, if a Northern/freight/GC service were to hit a scooter going at top speed, it could potentially derail the train.

But if you watch the linked story, the train that nearly hit the scooter (which had just been removed apparently) was travelling at 70mph and was heavy rail.

Roy

 

[142094]

But if you watch the linked story, the train that nearly hit the scooter (which had just been removed apparently) was travelling at 70mph and was heavy rail.

Roy

I'm not sure which point you are querying? I know what happened at Brockley Whins (train was actually stopped before it got anywhere near the station). What I'm saying is that the other situation at Howdon, it would be unlikely that a scooter would derail a Metro. At Brockley Whins, if the Northern service hadn't been stopped at a signal, it could have potentially caused a derailment.

 

[Laryk]

It was the other way around - after being ejected from the train twice he then dived in through an open window as the train pulled away from Camborne only to be ejected again.

Only in Camborne...

In regard to leaning on doors and them coming open, incase anyone things the problem only applies to slam door stock, you wouldn't have wanted to be leaning against this door http://raib.gov.uk/cms_resources.cfm?file=/070830_R312007_Desborough.pdf

Same goes for this one. Door opened on a 390 travelling at 109mph

 

[Royston Vasey]

Yes I am and it won't happen. Firstly there are no handles inside and as long as the doors are modified slightly to ensure they won't open it is perfectly safe. Even better if the CDL came on at around 30 mph. Anyway why would little Johny be leaning on the door? If he was leaning out of the window at that speed he would most likely fall out anyway

You must be joking. You're suggesting removing CDL from doors to allow for people who want to open them whilst on the move?? (That would work both ways, you realise that?)

This should be done in order to protect people who want to board when the train has alrady left??

I'm astonished!

 

[Bald Rick]

Ahem *raises arm*

At Reading, mid 80s, aged about 15, turned external door handle a touch too early. Arrived stationary on the platform some time before the train did. Scared the b'jesus out of me, and never opened a door early again. Perfect example of why CDL is necessary, to protect teenage boys from themselves.

 

[4SRKT]

We used to jump out of trains when still moving as part of the general activity of bashing. Jumping out early while being hauled by rateable traction while shouting 'my lords!' was called doing a 'leaping lord'.

Obviously this wasn't too sensible and I did come a cropper once at Gatwick Airport leaping off a late running Gatwick Express so that I could leg it over for the next one back (used to be possible to get two different 73s on a round trip from Victoria with only a 5-minute wait at Gatwick). The platform was icy and I skidded right across it, luckily not falling off the other side!

 

[richw]

Errr you're saying that HSTs shouldn't have CDL. Just to come to a clear understanding here.

So what happens when you're doing 125MPH and little Johny leans on the door and it opens?

I'm sure little johny wouldn't do it again though!

Sent from my HTC Sensation Z710e using Tapatalk

 

[4SRKT]

As a kid I used to lean out of HST windows on the section between York and Northallerton doing full whack 125 mph. Not only did I not fall out, but I didn't get sucked out of the window either. The amount of pressure required to suck a child out of a window (not in a straight line, but up and over the droplight) would be huge, and the train would have to be consructed like the space shuttle to be able to withstand it. What's more, with the careful application of my forefinger to the bridge of my nose, my knackered NHS glasses never even came off nor so much as a lens fell out.

Leaning out of a tram at 125 mph is one of the most exhilerating pleasures travelling by train has to offer BTW.

 

[moonrakerz]

I'm sure little johny wouldn't do it again though!

Natural selection at work !

 

[DaveNewcastle]

We used to jump out of trains when still moving as part of the general activity of bashing. . . .

. . . or for many passengers on suburban services, as part of the general activity of commuting.

Stepping on and off moving trains at Paddington and Kings Cross was a routine part of getting to and from a day's work.

 

[Roylang]

I'm not sure which point you are querying? I know what happened at Brockley Whins (train was actually stopped before it got anywhere near the station). What I'm saying is that the other situation at Howdon, it would be unlikely that a scooter would derail a Metro. At Brockley Whins, if the Northern service hadn't been stopped at a signal, it could have potentially caused a derailment.

Sorry, I must have been confused by your statement:

All of these accidents were at stations, so a Metro would be slowing down, but if it happened in between stations it would cause a bigger risk.

Which I thought indicated that all incidents occured at stations when approaching trains would have been going slowly.

Roy

 

[GB]

Leaning out of a tram at 125 mph is one of the most exhilerating pleasures travelling by train has to offer BTW.

...and pretty stupid in the grand scheme of things. But I guess that's a different debate altogether.

 

[Temple Meads]

...and pretty stupid in the grand scheme of things. But I guess that's a different debate altogether.

It is stupid, however as you can probably gather by my user title I'm guilty of this sin...

 

[Hydro]

Stepping on and off moving trains at Paddington and Kings Cross was a routine part of getting to and from a day's work.

It helped dwell times no end. I used to commute on slammers and whilst the train was crawling to a halt, passengers had already got off and were quickly walking to the station steps overtaking the train! I used to be quite chuffed if I managed to get off and close the door behind me before the train stopped moving.

 

[4SRKT]

It helped dwell times no end. I used to commute on slammers and whilst the train was crawling to a halt, passengers had already got off and were quickly walking to the station steps overtaking the train! I used to be quite chuffed if I managed to get off and close the door behind me before the train stopped moving.

Not only that but with 8 doors per carriage side instead of 2 (albeit wider ones), even without people getting off before the train had stopped it was a lot quicker to get everyone off a crowded train.

 

[yorksrob]

Indeed. I wish my morning train had a door for every ten passengers !

 

[Laryk]

Stepping on and off moving trains at Paddington and Kings Cross was a routine part of getting to and from a day's work.

I remember doing this at Waterloo when I was 10. It was a fun challenge to see how soon you could disembark.

 

[142094]

Which I thought indicated that all incidents occured at stations when approaching trains would have been going slowly.

Ah no, at least one that I know of was on the shared track, the rest have been at Metro stations on the original network.