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Harper confirms GBR to go ahead

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Facing Back

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There is the minor additional administrative work of buying two tickets instead of one though, that’s the only downside I can really think of.
Most of the intercity TOC websites will allow you to create a return journey and choose either a return ticket or 2 singles, whichever suits you most. A risk of the approach outlined in the speech is that the return leg (which is now flexible within 30 days for a standard off-peak ticket) may become "must travel on this day" - like to outward leg - lets hope not
 
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Fazaar1889

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Return journeys being what 99% of people make…..
As others have said, it may not become more expensive. But 99% of journeys are definitely not returns. There have been several occasions, and I'm sure for others, where I've only needed a single. And it was marginally cheaper than a return. bit of a rip off innit?
 

irish_rail

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So a handful of headline grabbing low fares , provided i book 8 months in advance and travel on an all stations stopper , departing at 2235. Meanwhile the fares the majority will end up paying will go up no doubt. Its another step closer to reservation only intercity travel like on the continent....
 

Facing Back

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Return journeys being what 99% of people make…..
Perhaps but many of us travel on 2 single tickets now.

I am not assuming that it will be more expensive. Nothing in the release suggests that whilst I understand you scepticism I am going to wait and see.
 

Bungle73

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As others have said, it may not become more expensive. But 99% of journeys are definitely not returns. There have been several occasions, and I'm sure for others, where I've only needed a single. And it was marginally cheaper than a return. bit of a rip off innit?
It’s a rip off because you get a deal if you are making a return journey? Most people when they travel somewhere need to get back……..
 

Iskra

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It could also mean that very early morning trains no longer count as peak, which has always seemed unfair to me. Especially if you’re returning off peak too. This could save such travellers a significant amount.

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So a handful of headline grabbing low fares , provided i book 8 months in advance and travel on an all stations stopper , departing at 2235. Meanwhile the fares the majority will end up paying will go up no doubt. Its another step closer to reservation only intercity travel like on the continent....
We’ve already had, and rightly dispensed with that on some TOC’s.
 

Sir Felix Pole

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I think the most worrying part of the speech is the comment 'It isn't fair to continue asking taxpayers to foot the bill. Most of them don't regularly use them (trains), including plenty of my constituents in the Forest of Dean.' Sounds like a shift to road building again - hopefully this govmt will be removed from office next year.
 

Halwynd

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There’s nothing stopping you asking for a single each way in the morning!

I thought the plan was to ultimately close booking offices? And TVM's only sell tickets from the station they are located at?

I can well understand Bungle73's frustrations. The overall plan will be to extract more money from passengers and offer a Ryanair service - if I'm wrong I'll show my ar** in Burton's window.
 

Iskra

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I think the most worrying part of the speech is the comment 'It isn't fair to continue asking taxpayers to foot the bill. Most of them don't regularly use them (trains), including plenty of my constituents in the Forest of Dean.' Sounds like a shift to road building again - hopefully this govmt will be removed from office next year.
I think you’re reading a bit too much into things there
 

JonathanH

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It could also mean that very early morning trains no longer count as peak, which has always seemed unfair to me.
My view is that Project Oval should consider the morning peak threshold being moved to 0530, rather than 0630, outside Zone 6 because as you go further from London, the morning peak starts earlier.
 

Iskra

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I thought the plan was to ultimately close booking offices? And TVM's only sell tickets from the station they are located at?

I can well understand Bungle73's frustrations. The overall plan will be to extract more money from passengers and offer a Ryanair service - if I'm wrong I'll show my ar** in Burton's window.
You can ask a TVM too…

That’s mere speculation at this point.

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My view is that Project Oval should consider the morning peak threshold being moved to 0530, rather than 0630, outside Zone 6 because as you go further from London, the morning peak starts earlier.
There’s a whole world beyond London…
 

Facing Back

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Its another step closer to reservation only intercity travel like on the continent....
Yep, thats certainly possible. Demand models work better that way. But I really hope not and there has been a huge amount of pushback to this in the past so I am not expecting it to happen here.

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I thought the plan was to ultimately close booking offices? And TVM's only sell tickets from the station they are located at?
Not all of them for sure.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

I can well understand Bungle73's frustrations. The overall plan will be to extract more money from passengers and offer a Ryanair service - if I'm wrong I'll show my ar** in Burton's window.
Is Burton's still going? If not can we nominate an alternative high street chain?
 

Horizon22

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So a handful of headline grabbing low fares , provided i book 8 months in advance and travel on an all stations stopper , departing at 2235. Meanwhile the fares the majority will end up paying will go up no doubt. Its another step closer to reservation only intercity travel like on the continent....

So like how demand pricing works on the airlines then? There's a reason the 05xx stupid hours flights are cheaper...

The idea is to spread demand more evenly theoretically. And its not necessarily different to how "peak" travel works (or did work pre-Covid) to discourage those that can, away from the train service.
 

Facing Back

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I think the most worrying part of the speech is the comment 'It isn't fair to continue asking taxpayers to foot the bill. Most of them don't regularly use them (trains), including plenty of my constituents in the Forest of Dean.' Sounds like a shift to road building again - hopefully this govmt will be removed from office next year.
Interesting. My guess was that he was having a pop at the rail unions and saying that we need to bring down costs - both operations and projects
 

Iskra

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So like how demand pricing works on the airlines then? There's a reason the 05xx stupid hours flights are cheaper...

The idea is to spread demand more evenly theoretically. And its not necessarily different to how "peak" travel works (or did work pre-Covid) to discourage those that can, away from the train service.
Precisely. It’s exactly the same as what’s always happened, just applied more intelligently, sensibly and fairly. The uproar is entirely unjustified.
 

Facing Back

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So like how demand pricing works on the airlines then? There's a reason the 05xx stupid hours flights are cheaper...

The idea is to spread demand more evenly theoretically. And its not necessarily different to how "peak" travel works (or did work pre-Covid) to discourage those that can, away from the train service.
To move people away from the "peak" train service I'd say, but other than that I agree.
 

Energy

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To move people away from the "peak" train service I'd say, but other than that I agree.
Agreed, more companies are offering flexible working hours now so spreading people out would be better. Also helps deal with the first off peak train often being busier than the last peak.
 

Facing Back

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Agreed, more companies are offering flexible working hours now so spreading people out would be better. Also helps deal with the first off peak train often being busier than the last peak.
Mine offers this flexible option and loads of people take advantage of it - it works really well for us.

lol yes, I recall the first off-peak Avant service frequently being crush loaded. I would never take it, even with a reservation.
 

stuu

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So a handful of headline grabbing low fares , provided i book 8 months in advance and travel on an all stations stopper , departing at 2235
That's exactly what happens now. I have never ever seen a GWR ticket at the advertised "from £x" except on trains at bizarre hours, like going to London at 830pm from Somerset.

The devil is in the detail of course, but some of the reactions on this thread are just bizarre
 

NJX

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Although I'm reluctant to believe Harper, because general Tory shenanigans, there is promising talk of less government micromanagement with the regional divisions?
I'm also interested in their plans for letting rail companies undergo property development, although it will be hard for developments to be approved and actually be built and I expect this to not really happen at all.
 

eldomtom2

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Demand-based pricing tends to result in headline-grabbing high fares that then create the public image that travelling by train is unaffordable.
 

Iskra

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Demand-based pricing tends to result in headline-grabbing high fares that then create the public image that travelling by train is unaffordable.
The current situation would disprove that. Anytime’s are often absurdly priced, but undercut by advances which are more commonly used. The Anytime fare is then used in Newspaper articles to make the point that it’s cheaper to fly via another country than get the train domestically, despite the fact that barely anyone actually pays the full Anytime fare…

Can you back your statement up with real examples?
 

zwk500

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The current situation would disprove that. Anytime’s are often absurdly priced, but undercut by advances which are more commonly used.
Agreed - In fact I would expect train companies to follow Ryanair's example and push their lowest advance fees as much as possible. Eurostar already does.
 

Skymonster

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I am not assuming that it will be more expensive. Nothing in the release suggests that whilst I understand you scepticism I am going to wait and see.

I am - expecting it to be more expensive (see below)…

The overall plan will be to extract more money from passengers and offer a Ryanair service…

Indeed…

During the speech, he said:
I won’t mince my words: operating the railways is currently financially unsustainable and it isn’t fair to continue asking taxpayers to foot the bill.

Now in my mind there’s only two ways of making the railway more financially sustainable - you either grow revenue (more precisely, margin rather than revenue), or you cut costs. Right now, it seems unlikely the unions are going to accept much cost cutting. And while there are other cost-saving avenues to exploit, staffing is a large part of the railway’s ongoing costs. That means increasing margin is going to have to carry a fair bit of the burden. You do that by growing the profitable customer base, and/or asking the customer to pay more. Do we really believe the operational cost of the railway can become acceptably sustainable just by growing the customer base (i.e. increasing ridership)? I don’t. I’m pretty confident that while there will be winners and losers when it comes to comparing fares now to those innthisnbrave new world, the latter will be in the majority.
 

Confused52

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This sounds like a return to virgin style multi quota advance purchase singles combined with Saver half returns and ordinary singles. It didn't require full booking to achieve demand based returns. This is an improvement in that the saver half return can be sold on its own and make open jaw travel cheaper. Virgin online used to give you two SVH when your bought a saver return. Let's not overreact.
 

eldomtom2

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The current situation would disprove that. Anytime’s are often absurdly priced, but undercut by advances which are more commonly used. The Anytime fare is then used in Newspaper articles to make the point that it’s cheaper to fly via another country than get the train domestically, despite the fact that barely anyone actually pays the full Anytime fare…
But that's my point! It doesn't matter if no actual passengers are paying them, headline-grabbing high fares drive potential passengers away from the railway.
 
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