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Refund in my bank account on the 22nd so one week after the journey and less after the claim. Surprising that the refund is not within the PAYG system to the credit card used but assume that setting up a separate refund system was an unnecessary complexity, particularly in what seems to be a fairly wobbly PAYG system.
I suspect that the automatic delay repay notification claimed for the PAYG does not exist, being something they would like to have rather than something that has been implemented. Has anyone received an automatic delay repay notification, and does anyone know how it would work, meaning how it associated tap times with specific trains?
The pay as you go area is expanding and the penalty for incomplete journeys is increasing. This was emailed to me today:
We would like to inform you that we're implementing some changes to pay-as-you-go in the Bristol area. These will become effective on 24 April 2024.
We have expanded the pay-as-you-go area to include Swindon, Kemble, Stonehouse, and Stroud. This means you can use your pay-as-you-go smartcard at more destinations.
As part of these changes, we have also adjusted the incomplete journey charge to £45 to reflect the increased geography within the extended coverage area. To make sure you do not incur an incomplete journey charge, please ensure:
•
You always tap in and tap out at the start and end of your journey
•
You do not travel outside the GWR pay-as-you-go network area using GWR pay-as-you-go
•
You do not exceed ‘same station exit’ rules by 30 minutes
Please note there are no changes to the Cornwall pay-as-you-go.
Full GWR pay-as-you-go terms and conditions can be found here.
I find that GWR are very reasonable, and act like TfL in that journeys autocomplete and if not you can complete them, or GWR support can. I've never had an issue with the £25 charge.
I find that GWR are very reasonable, and act like TfL in that journeys autocomplete and if not you can complete them, or GWR support can. I've never had an issue with the £25 charge.
Almost all the time, they autocomplete. However there was one time when they were going to charge me and the online system wasn't working - I wrote to the Twitter team who asked me to phone. I had a very long conversation by phone and it turned out the person at the other end didn't know anything about the online system and was a complete waste of time - they ended up asking me to email them. The issue with the website eventually resolved itself and I was able to fill in the incomplete journey.
I am still tempted to buy tickets instead (and use Uber to get the cashback) but I'm in too much of a rush in the mornings and not organised enough to buy them the night before!
Almost all the time, they autocomplete. However there was one time when they were going to charge me and the online system wasn't working - I wrote to the Twitter team who asked me to phone. I had a very long conversation by phone and it turned out the person at the other end didn't know anything about the online system and was a complete waste of time - they ended up asking me to email them. The issue with the website eventually resolved itself and I was able to fill in the incomplete journey.
I am still tempted to buy tickets instead (and use Uber to get the cashback) but I'm in too much of a rush in the mornings and not organised enough to buy them the night before!
They are always quite good by email, have never tried another way. Would definitely never try their twitter, after past negative experiences with other enquiries.
The main reason I use PAYG is for my journeys it's often cheaper as I switch between the bus and train depending on the time I'm travelling, and so if I only make one journey the Peak single offering, at half the Anytime Return, is cheaper than the Anytime single otherwise charged. Plus it gives the flexibility if I do get the train to only get charged a return.
For clarity, those are the areas where GWR offer PAYG travel using their Touch Smartcard. That is entirely separate from the ability to load some single/return fares to smartcards, which is dependent on the fare setter for the relevant flow enabling it for smartcard fulfilment.
The brand of smartcard you hold has no impact on whether a fare is available for smartcard fulfilment - provided the issuing TOC participates in the 'standard' National Rail distribution system (i.e. not ScotRail, who have their own system).
The brand of smartcard you hold has no impact on whether a fare is available for smartcard fulfilment - provided the issuing TOC participates in the 'standard' National Rail distribution system (i.e. not ScotRail, who have their own system).
I think you misunderstand what I am saying. The availability of smartcard as a fulfilment method doesn't depend on whether you use X TOC's smartcard and app, or Y TOC's smartcard or app.
You are correct that you can (generally) only fulfil tickets to the same brand of smartcard as the retailer you are using.
As far north as Ashchurch for Tewkesbury, but south-eastward stops at Freshford, but goes further east to Chippenham and now Swindon.
Now adding Swindon-Gloucester, but not adding part of the Bristol metro train routes to Frome /Warminster or via Melksham. I wonder what the thinking is to add some lines but not others.
As far north as Ashchurch for Tewkesbury, but south-eastward stops at Freshford, but goes further east to Chippenham and now Swindon.
Now adding Swindon-Gloucester, but not adding part of the Bristol metro train routes to Frome /Warminster or via Melksham. I wonder what the thinking is to add some lines but not others.
It's all about local authorities. The original area covered most of the area of the West of England Combined Authority. Presumably another LA has a hand in adding Swindon. (Also of course Swindon already has validators, whereas along towards Westbury they do not.
It's all about local authorities. The original area covered most of the area of the West of England Combined Authority. Presumably another LA has a hand in adding Swindon. (Also of course Swindon already has validators, whereas along towards Westbury they do not.
The risk does seem to be increasingly out of proportion to the benefits; you only really save money if you make open jaw, or single leg journeys, and then only if the open jaws are on different routes. Going to Weston and back from Yatton comes in at a return to Weston if all off peak, or 1.70 saved if the Weston journey is in the peak. For me, adding Swindon & the Kemble line has rather marginal benefits, so widening the area is increasing the possible risk without any real likelihood that I will travel to the Kemble line. The fares themselves are getting to the level where you think about the journey rather than just treating it as casual circulation around the local area. Weston to Kemble anytime return is £105.00! The highest fare on the previous area was probably Weston to Chippenham at £82.40, so I suppose we can console ourselves that the uncompleted journey fare remains less than the possible maximum.
The PAYG card may be convenient, but we can buy tickets on the train from Sea Mills (SML), without needing to commit the tap operations to memory. On the other hand, the original stimulus for getting a PAYG card was discovering, on the return journey, that I had been issued a CHILD ticket.
On the plus side, the PAYG email telling you that you have been charged now says how much.
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I had another case of the taps coming in late recently, but fortunately it went into autocomplete mode, and as the journey was correct I did not try amending it. Five days later when the taps came in the whole thing was revised. This is what it should have done with an incomplete journey accusation, including removing the customer input taps, which would have avoided the problem I described above. Starting by going into autocomplete mode would also have been better. There is very little evidence of careful design in the system.
It is interesting to speculate on what determines the autocomplete. For this case it looks like majority voting, I had made return trips to Severn Beach (SVB) twice in the month, and only once to Yatton, so the fact that I arrived at SML before the Yatton train was outvoted, presumably supported by the return just after the train from SVB.
Modertaor Note - split from: https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/gwr-payg.243198/ It remains a bit of a frustration to me that one of my regular Saturday journeys (Slade Green to Maidenhead) can't be done economically other than with paper tickets. This is because TfL's contactless PAYG...
With the area being extended to Swindon and the Kemble line now it means there's now journeys that can be made via multiple routes that have different fares - I don't see how the system would be able to know what route you took from Cheltenham to Swindon and I assume it would charge the lower 'via Stroud' fare by default?
With the area being extended to Swindon and the Kemble line now it means there's now journeys that can be made via multiple routes that have different fares - I don't see how the system would be able to know what route you took from Cheltenham to Swindon and I assume it would charge the lower 'via Stroud' fare by default?
.....
If the system is based on taps in and out having route dependent fares seems to be a flaw, probably arising because the PAYG fares have been computed from the existing standard fare table. Having two fares for the same time period seems to be incosistent with the claim that the system will work out the cheapest fare, for which the examples in the GWR FAQ do imply that the charge will be based on the terminal points. On the other hand, if the system also used on-board reads then it would know which way you went.
The extension to the zone is logical, in that it essentially adds a line, but for much of the zone that line is probably irrelevant. I am guessing that Sea Mills to Kemble rail travel has never been significant, because it cuts across the grain of the country, so even the pre-railway age Kemble has always been in the orbit of Gloucester or Cirencester rather than Bristol. So you have the problem that the incomplete journey fare has risen, without any real increase in the zones people mostly want to travel in. This is an interesting insight into the belief that nationalisation will lead to nationwide contactless PAYG travel. The incomplete journey fare would be enormous, and vastly out of proportion to almost all journeys, even interregional.
If the system is based on taps in and out having route dependent fares seems to be a flaw, probably arising because the PAYG fares have been computed from the existing standard fare table. Having two fares for the same time period seems to be incosistent with the claim that the system will work out the cheapest fare, for which the examples in the GWR FAQ do imply that the charge will be based on the terminal points. On the other hand, if the system also used on-board reads then it would know which way you went.
Although really all it does is work for the passenger. One of the main benefits of PAYG for me is as it's just taps there is nothing stopping double backs on a journey etc, as long as you tap whenever required, which can bring significant journey time benefits for me.
This is an interesting insight into the belief that nationalisation will lead to nationwide contactless PAYG travel. The incomplete journey fare would be enormous, and vastly out of proportion to almost all journeys, even interregional.
I don’t think there is a belief there’ll ever be nationwide contactless travel. Anyone who thinks about it for more than a couple of minutes will quickly see the same problems with maximum fares, multiple routes, overnight break of journey etc etc.
I don’t think there is a belief there’ll ever be nationwide contactless travel. Anyone who thinks about it for more than a couple of minutes will quickly see the same problems with maximum fares, multiple routes, overnight break of journey etc etc.
I may have read slightly more into the Guardian report of Labour intentions than was meant, but there is an implication that contactless fares would be widespread, although 'more and more of the country' could mean a large number of isolated areas. Which would not seem especially national and could lead to a widespread extension of the current problems where people mistakenly travel from London to Bristol on some sort of London PAYG card, and are surprised to be charged a real fare en route. Presumably if they have not tapped out in London they also get an incomplete journey fare.
'Things can be improved, Labour says, as contactless tap-in and tap-out payments extend through more and more of the country, opening up the possibility of a Transport for London-style system, where fares are streamlined and automatically capped or refunded.'
We are aware of an issue with emails from the Forum to Microsoft-based email accounts (hotmail/outlook/live.com email addresses). This is being looked into currently, thanks for your patience meanwhile.
