GWR Intercity EMU?

[Topological]

That ridiculous late group of neighbourhood watch Karens is the last thing a person would want to be inspired by. The fact it made the news made me embarrassed to be a local. Travelling to Haslemere on 450s gave me deep vein thrombosis indeed What tosh.

When starting this thread I had in mind the availability of 387 and 379, but also the potential availability of 350s.

The 350 that were used by TPE between Manchester Airport and Glasgow/Edinburgh were perfectly pleasant to travel on and had everything you would want from an "Intercity EMU". I do not know how those sets have been treated since going to work out of Euston, but the TPE 350s do show what can be done. I would have no problem doing Swansea to Paddington on one, never mind starting in Cardiff, Bristol or Oxford.

 

[Neptune]

Well, the rail industry's persistent 'suburbanisation' of what should be long-distance services never ceases to tire and annoy me. I think there was a time when I had not realised the implications of suburban bodyshells and would have been happy to see 377s just about anywhere; it may have been the 'no 450' campaign on the Portsmouth direct that made me notice, or maybe it was something else.

I see you’re not letting the facts get in the way here (shock, horror). The ‘no450’ campaign was to do with the 3+2 seating, not the door layout.

I distinctly remember a photo of 3 people sitting ridiculously together like nobody would ever sit trying to prove their point. If I remember correctly Penny Mordaunt MP was one of those people.

When the 458’s with 2+2 seating come onto the Pompey’s in due course, we’ll see if they have a new ‘no458’ campaign complaining about door positions.

 

[RobShipway]

Perhaps not, but I very much doubt there are many IET services, at any time of day, where a 5-car set would be sufficient at the Paddington end of the route. Yes, there are probably a few (back it the day the forums told me that some of the class 180 diagrams could cope with just the single 5-car class 180, but I think there were only five 180s in FirstGW's fleet at the time) but nowhere near enough to justify as many 5-car units as GWR have. A pair of 5-car units on a diagram which would suit a 7-car or 8-car unit is even more wasteful than putting a 9-car unit on such a diagram.

I know it maybe not the best way of running a railway, but if there is a requirement for say 10 carriages in London Paddington, then surely the train should be run as 10 coaches say as far as Bristol Temple Meads with the front 5 coaches then going to Exeter and beyond?

With regards to the 'No 450' campaign the issue was due to the fact that the people on the route where use to 2+2 seating on InterCity EMU stock in the form of class 442/444 units, with the class 442 being withdrawn and the class 444 units being moved to the Bournemouth/Weymouth routes.

When the 458’s with 2+2 seating come onto the Pompey’s in due course, we’ll see if they have a new ‘no458’ campaign complaining about door positions.

I await to see what the people of the London - Portsmouth route make of the 2+2 class 458 units, when they are moved over to the route. There will probably be complaints that the seats are uncomfortable enough, not enough seats, trains are too short and as you say @Neptune that the doors are in the wrong place or that there is too many doors and winter time is making the train colder than it needs to be in running. It makes the commutes of the London - Reading route seem placid, who have put up with varying types of trains and varying lengths of trains over the last 10 years or more, even though a promise by the then TOC that there would be 10 car trains on every service. I must confess, in living in the area at the time I thought that to be a bit wasteful, when at times through the day no more than 4 - 5 carriages where needed.

 

[Snow1964]

I know it maybe not the best way of running a railway, but if there is a requirement for say 10 carriages in London Paddington, then surely the train should be run as 10 coaches say as far as Bristol Temple Meads with the front 5 coaches then going to Exeter and beyond?

I think the problem is the ATP automatic train protection that was added to Paddington approaches after Ladbrook Grove crash. Interfacing with it messed the coupling and uncoupling software up so the old splitting and joining that Southern used to do in 2 minutes, is more like 6-9 minutes on an IET

But the basic idea is correct, the congested approaches to London should have doubled up trains, but don't need to run as double sets all day to far ends of line. This was what DfT envisaged, just wasn't executed well.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I know it maybe not the best way of running a railway, but if there is a requirement for say 10 carriages in London Paddington, then surely the train should be run as 10 coaches say as far as Bristol Temple Meads with the front 5 coaches then going to Exeter and beyond?

I don't think you know the GWML very well. Exeter trains don't go via Bristol - some terminate there and some continue (via Parkway rather than TM) the relatively short distance to Cardiff.

It was originally conceived that it would be 10 to Plymouth thence 5, but that caused severe overcrowding.

As a result, other than the Cotswold Line and Oxford at very quiet times, the use case for 5s has basically disappeared, and most either run around in pairs or show up alone occasionally to annoy people.

 

[Clarence Yard]

Actually, it was 5 from Plymouth to Penzance, except in high summer, when 9 or 10 should have taken place on most of the trains because there would have been the equivalent of two extra 5 cars cycling between Plymouth and Penzance. But Hitachi fell short on that one.

Snow1964, the DfT plan was rubbish. Splitting and joining at Swindon to serve two destinations? What could possibly go wrong?! That was just one of the many errors that the “great cartographer” presided over.

The late Roger Watkins and I had fun getting the draft 2019 timetable right with the right stock on the right trains and it all meeting the cascade and maintenance requirements in the contract. It was executed well, by GWR at least.

When Hitachi can only put out 67% of their fleet, to meet 83% of their contracted requirement, you are going to get short forms.

Getting back to the subject of this thread, you will need a lot more wiring to make a GWR 9 car intercity EMU a viable proposition.

 

[RobShipway]

I don't think you know the GWML very well. Exeter trains don't go via Bristol - some terminate there and some continue (via Parkway rather than TM) the relatively short distance to Cardiff.

It was originally conceived that it would be 10 to Plymouth thence 5, but that caused severe overcrowding.

As a result, other than the Cotswold Line and Oxford at very quiet times, the use case for 5s has basically disappeared, and most either run around in pairs or show up alone occasionally to annoy people.

I do know that the trains for Exeter do not go via Bristol Temple Meads normally @Bletchleyite, but that is a better place for a 5 car class 80X to be splitting than either Reading or Swindon. Depending on the timing of the service, you are more likely to get 10 - 15 minutes to detach the trains at Bristol Temple Meads, than you are at Reading or Swindon. Also, prior to Bristol Temple Meads I suspect you are going to need 9 - 10 car train?

 

[Bletchleyite]

I do know that the trains for Exeter do not go via Bristol Temple Meads normally @Bletchleyite, but that is a better place for a 5 car class 80X to be splitting than either Reading or Swindon. Depending on the timing of the service, you are more likely to get 10 - 15 minutes to detach the trains at Bristol Temple Meads, than you are at Reading or Swindon. Also, prior to Bristol Temple Meads I suspect you are going to need 9 - 10 car train?

I still don't get where you're coming from. London-Bristol TM is a self contained service (give or take the odd few extending to Weston super Mare). There's no splitting or joining to do, and sending Cornish services that way would be silly because they'd be much slower.

There is a separate Bristol-Penzance service which sometimes uses 5-car sets and sometimes HSTs, but joining that to a London service would just make it unreliable and isn't necessary.

If passenger numbers were lower the Plymouth split would make sense, but they're not and so it doesn't. Therefore there aren't any places where it does on GW, bar potentially those occasional Weston super Mare trains, but TBH you may as well just run 9 there as have the complexity, it's not exactly a massively long way from Bristol.

 

[Meerkat]

Are people really suggesting putting EMUs with doors at thirds on the Cardiff service?
I think that removing Cardiff from the Intercity network might cause a bit of a stir in Wales……

 

[Bletchleyite]

Are people really suggesting putting EMUs with doors at thirds on the Cardiff service?
I think that removing Cardiff from the Intercity network might cause a bit of a stir in Wales……

I don't get the door position prejudice thing. Doors at thirds mean boarding and alighting is quicker and less stressful. Trains like Class 185 are great for long distance - it's all about the seats. Which are better on those EMUs than the 80x in my view (and that of many others). TBH I'd be more than happy to see wide doors at 1/4 and 3/4 on all long distance trains. Just graft on a pointy nose if you want it to look all IC.

The absence of First Class is probably the bigger issue, but I don't entirely see why you couldn't do a cheaper, slower "LNR style" service on that route in addition to some proper IC services, the LNR Crewe is very popular and that's even with it being necessary to change (or drive) to get anywhere actually useful.

 

[Snow1964]

Are people really suggesting putting EMUs with doors at thirds on the Cardiff service?
I think that removing Cardiff from the Intercity network might cause a bit of a stir in Wales……

Many of the services from Cardiff that are longer time, 3+ hours eg to Portsmouth, XC to East Midlands, to South West Wales, or North Wales use vehicles with these doors.

Journeys on IETs from Cardiff are were rarely above 2 hours (although recent use on selected journeys to Cornwall is much longer time)

To me door spacing is a minor point, it is the comfort and ambiance of the saloon that is relevant. The 387 is fitted out like a suburban EMU, but a regional battery EMU should be fitted out more like a 185 or 444, almost inter-city style.

I do agree a 387 in current configuration would be lousy choice for everyday service, even if working crowd buster extras on event days is acceptable

 

[Bletchleyite]

The 444 is curious in having an InterCity feel, but in fact having several of the doors not at the vehicle ends.

I also find the Class 380 has an InterCity feel despite actually being a suburban EMU. It can be done. TBH I expect the LNR 730s to have an IC feel while having better access than most IC EMUs.

 

[Trainbike46]

The way I would do it:
- Electrify Bristol both ways, Oxford and Swansea
- Order new 125 mph EMUs of 260m (10-car) for these services
- sublease the 5-car 80x this frees up to XC
- Bin any 22x that are spare at XC

Then add on a 260m 125mph EMU order for LNER to replace the IC 225 sets, but order more to cascade/sublease some 5 car bimode 80x from LNER to XC

Like all new trains should, these should offer level boarding.

Advantages:
- XC gets bimode stock without having to build new bimodes
- LNER and GWR get higher capacity EMUs for their busiest electric routes
- Less need for doubling up across the network

 

[Bletchleyite]

I agree with all of that. There are some bizarre gaps in the GW wires.

 

[Rhydgaled]

Hitachi require the AT300s to have an odd number of carriages due to the way the equipment is laid out.

Do they explain exactly what equipment and how it is organised? For example, is there any equipment on the non-driving trailers in the 9-car sets that is used by other vehicles?

No but they do have to reach a home depot every so often, iirc it's every 36 hours.

Nowadays you get both 800 and 802 9 cars in the South West.

You could just extend the 802s to 9 cars and send about half to XC. Far easier than messing around with the 800s. You could probably reuse old gensets in the new cars.

Thanks for confirming that the 800s can work to the South West (does that include all the way to Penzance?). I know that the 802s certainly work some of the London - South Wales services as I've seen at least one, but does Swansea Maliphant do any work on 802s or is it strictly an Agility depot? Assuming Oxford, Swansea, Cardiff and Bristol were wired and 802s (rather than 800s) were converted to class 803 EMUs it would mostly be the latter going to Swansea and there would probably be very few visits of units covered by the IEP train supply agreement to Swansea. I think that's the last remaining argument I have in favour of converting 800s to 803s rather than 802s to 803s.

As for reusing old gensets, I don't really care whether you take a genset out of one vehicle and put it under a different coach or move the entire vehicle (complete with genset) into the other unit, as long as the total number of genset vehicles is not increased.

There was never electrification beyond Oxford. The 9 car units were due to a mess up in the IEP order which had Cotswold peak services only 5 car, rather than full length.

Sorry, my brain sometimes gets ahead of itself and/or my hands. That bit should have said either "electrification beyond Didcot was delayed" or "electrification to Oxford was delayed". I've now edited my earlier post to correct that.

The original 802s for the South West were authorised in 2015 when refurbished HSTs were found too expensive.

The additional units were authorised at the same time as the 801/800 change.

Thought so, and on that basis I had assumed Paddington-Oxford fast services (those which don't continue to the Cotswolds and therefore could be worked by class 803 EMU when Didcot-Oxford electrification is completed) would require about 7 units. However, given your other point that they were actually to provide additional capacity on the Cotswolds line as well perhaps the number of class 803 EMUs that GWR could make use of if the rest of GWEP was completed is slightly less that I thought.

 

[Clarence Yard]

If you are contemplating EMU sets to replace 800/802 sets on GWR, you would have to renegotiate all the IEP contracts because you can’t “sub lease” sets because they are not on a lease to begin with. It’s a train supply agreement, the supply being from nominated depots, three of which are Hitachi owned.

So, if you move any 800/802 sets to XC, you are probably going to have to extend the IEP agreement and almost certainly transfer more depots to Hitachi because they need control of them for it all to work. On GWR, that would probably mean Laira transferring to Hitachi.

 

[Trainbike46]

If you are contemplating EMU sets to replace 800/802 sets on GWR, you would have to renegotiate all the IEP contracts because you can’t “sub lease” sets because they are not on a lease to begin with. It’s a train supply agreement, the supply being from nominated depots, three of which are Hitachi owned.

So, if you move any 800/802 sets to XC, you are probably going to have to extend the IEP agreement and almost certainly transfer more depots to Hitachi because they need control of them for it all to work. On GWR, that would probably mean Laira transferring to Hitachi.

Actually, my suggestion was meant to be slightly different.

As GWR would still need some 5-car 80x, prioritise subleasing 802 sets which are on a more regular lease. If some 800s could also be moved over, I would keep them based at their current depots:

North pole depot - services start from Reading
Stoke Gifford - Services start from Bristol
Swansea Maliphant - Services start from Swansea (possibly extended from Cardiff)

Out of these 3, Stoke Gifford seems the most suitable, given the number of XC services passing through Bristol, but the other 2 would work if numbers dictate.

On the LNER side, I would only move across units from Craigentinny (Edinburgh starters) and Doncaster depots.

breaking open the IEP contract seems less than ideal, and wouldn't be necessary in any case. XC already has diagrams starting from places across it's network, but it would be necessary to adapt diagrams in the light of the maintenance locations having moved

 

[Neptune]

Thought so, and on that basis I had assumed Paddington-Oxford fast services (those which don't continue to the Cotswolds and therefore could be worked by class 803 EMU when Didcot-Oxford electrification is completed) would require about 7 units. However, given your other point that they were actually to provide additional capacity on the Cotswolds line as well perhaps the number of class 803 EMUs that GWR could make use of if the rest of GWEP was completed is slightly less that I thought.

You’ve mentioned class 803’s quite a lot as some kind of bi-mode solution due to their battery pack. Forgive me if I’m wrong but I thought that this battery pack under one coach was purely for hotel power in the event of a train being stranded and can be used in last mile limp home mode. I’m not sure an 803 would make it far off the wires as you keep suggesting.

 

[Energy]

You’ve mentioned class 803’s quite a lot as some kind of bi-mode solution due to their battery pack. Forgive me if I’m wrong but I thought that this battery pack under one coach was purely for hotel power in the event of a train being stranded and can be used in last mile limp home mode. I’m not sure an 803 would make it far off the wires as you keep suggesting.

Correct.

If you are contemplating EMU sets to replace 800/802 sets on GWR, you would have to renegotiate all the IEP contracts because you can’t “sub lease” sets because they are not on a lease to begin with. It’s a train supply agreement, the supply being from nominated depots, three of which are Hitachi owned.

Aren't the 802s a normal lease from Eversholt and a maintanence agreement with Hitachi?

Thought so, and on that basis I had assumed Paddington-Oxford fast services (those which don't continue to the Cotswolds and therefore could be worked by class 803 EMU when Didcot-Oxford electrification is completed) would require about 7 units. However, given your other point that they were actually to provide additional capacity on the Cotswolds line as well perhaps the number of class 803 EMUs that GWR could make use of if the rest of GWEP was completed is slightly less that I thought.

An easy way to estimate is round trip in hours x tph. Then divide by 0.8 to assume 80% availability in sets. This will give a rough estimation, in the real world there is inter working between routes and some fairly inefficient diagrams. Both XC and TPE have their workings public.

The original rolling stock orders really don't line up anymore, Cotswold has fewer 9 cars than originally intended.

Sorry, my brain sometimes gets ahead of itself and/or my hands. That bit should have said either "electrification beyond Didcot was delayed" or "electrification to Oxford was delayed". I've now edited my earlier post to correct that.

Easy typo to make

Thanks for confirming that the 800s can work to the South West (does that include all the way to Penzance?)

Yes, both the 0503 and 0605 from Penzance to London Paddington today were worked by 9 car 800s.

I know that the 802s certainly work some of the London - South Wales services as I've seen at least one, but does Swansea Maliphant do any work on 802s or is it strictly an Agility depot?

Agility was a funding consortia for the trains themselves, AFAIK the depots are Hitachi so can work on other trains. Bounds Green TMD services 802s for Hull Trains and 803s for Lumo.

I'm not sure of the current maintanence location for 802s, it's intended to become mostly Laira long term.

Assuming Oxford, Swansea, Cardiff and Bristol were wired and 802s (rather than 800s) were converted to class 803 EMUs it would mostly be the latter going to Swansea and there would probably be very few visits of units covered by the IEP train supply agreement to Swansea. I think that's the last remaining argument I have in favour of converting 800s to 803s rather than 802s to 803s.

The IEP contract has a mechanism to convert 800s to 801s.

As for reusing old gensets, I don't really care whether you take a genset out of one vehicle and put it under a different coach or move the entire vehicle (complete with genset) into the other unit, as long as the total number of genset vehicles is not increased.

Agreed. I'm thinking from a contract standpoint. Removing engines form the 800s is within the IEP contracts, lengthening units however is easier with the 802 lease.

Do they explain exactly what equipment and how it is organised? For example, is there any equipment on the non-driving trailers in the 9-car sets that is used by other vehicles?

From here (thread locked so I can't quote properly)

Electrical pairing, I’m told. So, if you are buying Hitachi 80x, they come in 5, 7 or 9 car variants only.

 

[swt_passenger]

You’ve mentioned class 803’s quite a lot as some kind of bi-mode solution due to their battery pack. Forgive me if I’m wrong but I thought that this battery pack under one coach was purely for hotel power in the event of a train being stranded and can be used in last mile limp home mode. I’m not sure an 803 would make it far off the wires as you keep suggesting.

You‘re right, the 803 battery pack is not for traction, but only for hotel power. It’s been clarified a few times in previous discussions. (Although I think you accidentally left the word “not” out of your post?).

It’s why Lumo don’t do any off route diversions.

 

[Clarence Yard]

The 802 sets are on a train supply agreement from Hitachi - it is not a maintenance contract. The 802 sets receive their 36 day exams mainly at LA but for heavier work they still have to go to Stoke Gifford or North Pole and that isn’t changing.

The IEP contracts also have very restrictive maintenance provisions - you can’t just move the sets around to start where you want them to be, at the time you want them to depart. That’s why you have to renegotiate if you want to seriously shuffle them around.

 

[heathrowrail]

The 802s were ordered after the 800 order was changed. Primarily they were for Cornwall (originally proposed 222s) with a few 9 cars for peak time Cotswold services.

The procurement was led by FG/GWR but still very much under DfT instruction and ended with DfT spec units.

Since when was 222s ever on the cards for Devon & Cornwall? The original franchise proposal back in 2017 was that 14 HST sets would be retained & completed with the same doors fitted to the Castle sets, that then changed when the DFT approved the Class 802 order.

 

[Annetts key]

What work would be required, do you know? I imagine it could be fairly significant, as there is pointwork fairly close behind the signal I think.

I don’t have enough information to give a detailed reply, but based on the satellite view and the photos that can be found, moving the signal nearer to the points may be possible along with moving the points for the single line loco spur further away from the station. Either one or a combination should give the extra distance required, along with, ideally a platform extension.

Isn't that what IEP was to a degree? The specification could have been a lot better than it was though - far too many 'half sets' ordered, uncomfortable seats (but at least that can hopefully be put right by a refurb) and a failure to specify plug doors.

As we are learning, the whole IET thing is turning out to be full of awkward limitations. And because of the contracts, the railway is now rather stuck.

If it were possible and practical (which it’s sadly not), I would like to see the whole IET contract cancelled. Even if it means “scrapping” all the GW 80X trains. But in the real world we are now stuck with it.

I don't think you know the GWML very well.

Some ten car (5+5) IET set’s actually run in service with the rear half (five cars) empty. That’s the reality annoying thing. You get on at Paddington (all ten cars available for use), but have to get out and get back in at Bristol T.M. to continue your journey to Weston-super-Mare or any of the intermediate stations because they take the rear five cars out of service.

Some IETs to/from Paddington commence or terminate at Taunton. And yes, the Paddington to Exeter St Davids or beyond don’t normally go via Bristol T.M.

 

[Energy]

As we are learning, the whole IET thing is turning out to be full of awkward limitations. And because of the contracts, the railway is now rather stuck.

The train supply agreement reduces risk but at the expense of increasing inflexibility. It works if the right quantity of trains had been ordered in the first place (Cotswolds...).

 

[Clarence Yard]

Since when was 222s ever on the cards for Devon & Cornwall? The original franchise proposal back in 2017 was that 14 HST sets would be retained & completed with the same doors fitted to the Castle sets, that then changed when the DFT approved the Class 802 order.

Not quite. The DfT assumption was that the 222 sets would come off the MML for services to Devon and Cornwall so when it came to a bid comparator, 16 sets of refurbished HST would have to be retained instead. I don’t think at that stage power doors was mentioned but I haven’t retained my papers on that.

When it became apparent that the MML electrification wasn’t going to happen in time and that the HST sets would require serious money being spent on them (including, maybe power doors), FG proposed the 802 solution, which was accepted.

The 222 units would have split and joined at Plymouth, just like the 802 sets.

 

[Snow1964]

Some IETs to/from Paddington commence or terminate at Taunton. And yes, the Paddington to Exeter St Davids or beyond don’t normally go via Bristol T.M.

Yes, both the 0503 and 0605 from Penzance to London Paddington today were worked by 9 car 800s.

The 06:36 from Plymouth was however a 5 car today

A quick way to check is to look at GW trains through Pewsey, ignoring the vast amount of red due to late running today, and first daytime train of day being cancelled, will see there are multiple destinations / start points including Newquay, Paignton, Westbury, Frome, Plymouth, Exeter, Penzance, Bristol

Realtime Trains | Departures from Pewsey all day on 23/08/2023

Train information at Pewsey all day on 23/08/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[Energy]

The 06:36 from Plymouth was however a 5 car today

A quick way to check is to look at GW trains through Pewsey, ignoring the vast amount of red due to late running today, and first daytime train of day being cancelled, will see there are multiple destinations / start points including Newquay, Paignton, Westbury, Frome, Plymouth, Exeter, Penzance, Bristol

Realtime Trains | Departures from Pewsey all day on 23/08/2023

Train information at Pewsey all day on 23/08/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

You can just do a detailed search on RTT for Penzance subsequently calling at London Paddington.

Anyway the question I responded to was whether 800s could work WoE, which they can and do.

Not quite. The DfT assumption was that the 222 sets would come off the MML for services to Devon and Cornwall

The 222 units would have split and joined at Plymouth, just like the 802 sets.

Indeed, the 222s and the original 802 order are pretty similar in number.

You'll know far better than me but I don't think the 222s appeared in public documents, similar to the originally planned 365s.

 

[JonathanH]

You'll know far better than me but I don't think the 222s appeared in public documents, similar to the originally planned 365s.

Definitely discussion about 222s going to the West here though, back in 2013.

Speculation: Class 222 to GW in the long term?

Was talking to a colleague of mine on the GWR who says a provisional deal has been done to introduce class all 222's onto the GW for use on non-electrified routes once the iep's have been introduced onto the midland mainline, to be based and serviced at Laira and almost fully displacing all...

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[Annetts key]

Some IETs to/from Paddington commence or terminate at Taunton. And yes, the Paddington to Exeter St Davids or beyond don’t normally go via Bristol T.M.

The 06:36 from Plymouth was however a 5 car today

A quick way to check is to look at GW trains through Pewsey, ignoring the vast amount of red due to late running today, and first daytime train of day being cancelled, will see there are multiple destinations / start points including Newquay, Paignton, Westbury, Frome, Plymouth, Exeter, Penzance, Bristol

Realtime Trains | Departures from Pewsey all day on 23/08/2023

Train information at Pewsey all day on 23/08/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

You can just do a detailed search on RTT for Penzance subsequently calling at London Paddington.

All the following are weekday services…

Departures from London Paddington via Bristol Temple Meads (down trains)
1 x to Swansea 1C00
1 x to Penzance 1C55
9 x to Weston-super-Mare 1C02, 1C06, 1C10, 1C14, 1C18, 1C20, 1C28, 1C31, 1C33.
2 x to Taunton 1C22, 1C25
Everything else terminates at Bristol Temple Meads

Trains to London Paddington via Bristol Temple Meads (up trains)
8 x from Weston-super-Mare 1A06, 1A07, 1A15, 1A19, 1A23, 1A27, 1A31, 1A33
2 x from Taunton 1A09, 1A12
1 x from Exeter St Davids 1A37
1 x from Penzance 1A39
Everything else starts from Bristol Temple Meads

 

[irish_rail]

Definitely discussion about 222s going to the West here though, back in 2013.

Speculation: Class 222 to GW in the long term?

Was talking to a colleague of mine on the GWR who says a provisional deal has been done to introduce class all 222's onto the GW for use on non-electrified routes once the iep's have been introduced onto the midland mainline, to be based and serviced at Laira and almost fully displacing all...

www.railforums.co.uk

Indeed I remember being told we would be getting the 222s. Was rather relived when that didn't happen!