GWR Class 800

[irish_rail]

Across the board or only on particular unit(s)?

He didn't elaborate and this is a guy at Laira (they don't have a lot to do with the pans so how accurate it is I don't know)

 

[irish_rail]

Are the 802's fitted with different pantograph heads to 800's?

Not that I'm aware

 

[Railperf]

Very unlikely that one would be running diesel and one electric though it is technically possible. Unless the issue with the one set was resolved / lifted during the course of the day or of course even the driver may have forgotten about the restriction!!!

It did turn up in diesel for sure. I asked the driver whether the unit was diesel only. He said he didn't know and would go in and see. Minutes later the diesel engines stopped, and Panto on the front unit raised. As I say the performance was astonishingly fast. The 802's do go better in diesel mode than a standard 800 but not THAT much better.

 

[TractiveEffort]

Hitachi fitter told me the problem is cracked pantograph heads.

He told you wrong, one cracked weld was found, but not on any GWR units.

 

[FGW_DID]

Please can you confirm - the units were 802006 and 802011 on Tuesday 13th on the 1633 Padd to Exeter

007,008 & 012 were the 802s on the naughty list, the morning of Tuesday 13th.

 

[TractiveEffort]

Well for a start virtually all the 802s are currently diesel only.
Secondly, I have now driven 6 802s and 5 of them I have suffered faults that have either delayed the train in service by more than 5 minutes or delayed departure from the depot. Talk to any Hitachi fitter and they agree, the 802s are currently far less reliable. Take it from those of us who actually work them not your enthusiasts glass half full perspective.

I talk to Hitachi fitters, I also see more data than they do. Things aren’t perfect from either side, the amount of Drivers that leave a station in turnaround mode does little to help the perfotmance figures, but at least those TIN’s get coded off to crew.

 

[TractiveEffort]

Are the 802's fitted with different pantograph heads to 800's?

No they are the same across all 80X

 

[irish_rail]

I talk to Hitachi fitters, I also see more data than they do. Things aren’t perfect from either side, the amount of Drivers that leave a station in turnaround mode does little to help the perfotmance figures, but at least those TIN’s get coded off to crew.

Not helped by the fact turnaround mode doesn't even get a mention on the training course.....thank fully most drivers seem to know what to do now.

 

[irish_rail]

007,008 & 012 were the 802s on the naughty list, the morning of Tuesday 13th.

With 3 802 diagrams per day that's a big proportion of the fleet though.

 

[Meerkat]

What is turnaround mode please?

 

[Ethano92]

Just a quick question about the doors between the seating area and the vestibules. Surely since they're sensor, when the train is full and people are standing near it, they'll keep opening and closing. Isn't that annoying?

 

[TractiveEffort]

Not helped by the fact turnaround mode doesn't even get a mention on the training course.....thank fully most drivers seem to know what to do now.

There was a brief....

 

[Japan0913]

It is better not to drive in an unstable feeling.
Hitachi design is excluded from the United Kingdom if useless.

Little, it was an overstatement. Excuse me.
I am concerned about the future of Hitachi.
If the "No Orders" of "New Southeasten franchise",
Hitachi are afraid the train business activities in the United Kingdom is completed.
CAF, Stadler, Talgo ···

 

[FGW_DID]

With 3 802 diagrams per day that's a big proportion of the fleet though.

Looking through the 802 5car diagrams for this week (13th - 16th Nov) there ‘should’ be 9 in traffic daily:

1x 5 car working the Plymouth - Penzance Class 2 and the other 8 forming 4 pairs. I know some days the 9 car 802101 has been deputising for a 10 car so yeah, going on that ratio it is a sizeable chunk!

 

[FGW_DID]

Just a quick question about the doors between the seating area and the vestibules. Surely since they're sensor, when the train is full and people are standing near it, they'll keep opening and closing. Isn't that annoying?

No more annoying than the people who keep standing on the pressure pad at the HST door.

 

[irish_rail]

There was a brief....

Well clearly not all drivers received it. I did , and have had no issues , others as u say where less fortunate

 

[irish_rail]

What is turnaround mode please?

Turnaround mode is used when the train is running on diesel. For example at Penzance if the train is due to siit in the platform for more than 15 minutes before returning to London then turnaround mode can be selected by the driver. This will cause 2 of the 3 engines on a 5 car or 4 out of the 5 engines on a 9 car to go into idle.
When the new driver takes over and sets up the london end cab he must ensure to restart the engines, many drivers have forgotten this and therefore left and suffered very low power running on just one or two engines.

 

[TractiveEffort]

Turnaround mode is used when the train is running on diesel. For example at Penzance if the train is due to siit in the platform for more than 15 minutes before returning to London then turnaround mode can be selected by the driver. This will cause 2 of the 3 engines on a 5 car or 4 out of the 5 engines on a 9 car to go into idle.
When the new driver takes over and sets up the london end cab he must ensure to restart the engines, many drivers have forgotten this and therefore left and suffered very low power running on just one or two engines.

And then, instead of coasting or coming to a stand (either will do) they press the diesel button on the move, this flags up a traction converter fault that can only be cleared by a reset. If a Driver departs in turnaround mode and realises, he/she can coast and press engine start, once the engines are running, press the diesel button and normality is restored.

 

[Meerkat]

Why isn’t there an interlock to stop you driving off in turnaround?

 

[43096]

Turnaround mode is used when the train is running on diesel. For example at Penzance if the train is due to siit in the platform for more than 15 minutes before returning to London then turnaround mode can be selected by the driver. This will cause 2 of the 3 engines on a 5 car or 4 out of the 5 engines on a 9 car to go into idle.
When the new driver takes over and sets up the london end cab he must ensure to restart the engines, many drivers have forgotten this and therefore left and suffered very low power running on just one or two engines.

What a stupid system. This could and should be automated - if idling longer than, say, 15mins with key out then it goes into “eco” mode. When new driver keys in, it re-starts the engines.

It’s not new technology: Valenta HSTs had a mod done 15 years or so ago to drop into 6-cylinder mode (aka single bank firing) after a pre-set time idling and come out when the power controller was moved from ‘off’ totally automatically.

 

[Mintona]

On board 800023 this morning which has the new moquette style seats installed, as per 800012 and the 802s. Only the second of the original 5 cars 800s to be changed as far as I’m aware.

 

[trebor79]

What a stupid system. This could and should be automated - if idling longer than, say, 15mins with key out then it goes into “eco” mode. When new driver keys in, it re-starts the engines.

It's not stupid. How does the train know how long it's going to be sat idling for. If it's a 20 minute layover your system would waste a lot of fuel if there was no manual way of shutting some of the engines down.

 

[43096]

It's not stupid. How does the train know how long it's going to be sat idling for. If it's a 20 minute layover your system would waste a lot of fuel if there was no manual way of shutting some of the engines down.

Fine, provide an option in the TMS to go into eco mode manually. But my point still stands: return to normal mode should be automatic. It is a stupidly designed system.

 

[Mintona]

Fine, provide an option in the TMS to go into eco mode manually. But my point still stands: return to normal mode should be automatic. It is a stupidly designed system.

I disagree. In certain places (Alstone siding, Cardiff Brickyard etc) there could be a long layover, but the driver can still get the rest of the train set up and ready to go, and then fire up the engines five minutes before departure time. Saves quite a bit of fuel I imagine.

 

[43096]

I disagree. In certain places (Alstone siding, Cardiff Brickyard etc) there could be a long layover, but the driver can still get the rest of the train set up and ready to go, and then fire up the engines five minutes before departure time. Saves quite a bit of fuel I imagine.

Where’s the “bangs head” icon when you need it?

By all means give the manual option, but the backstop should be the train drops out of eco mode automatically at a pre-determined point. Clearly it has been an issue as otherwise it wouldn’t be being discussed. That someone has designed a TMS that will tell you when the buffet bert farts or the bogs run out of paper but will cause delays because the train won’t drop out of eco mode automatically is just plain bloody stupid. End of.

 

[Grumbler]

Where’s the “bangs head” icon when you need it?

By all means give the manual option, but the backstop should be the train drops out of eco mode automatically at a pre-determined point. Clearly it has been an issue as otherwise it wouldn’t be being discussed. That someone has designed a TMS that will tell you when the buffet bert farts or the bogs run out of paper but will cause delays because the train won’t drop out of eco mode automatically is just plain bloody stupid. End of.

Even a warning message that the train is being driven in eco-mode would help.

 

[Mintona]

The TMS shows no warning for either of those things.

This really isn’t the issue it’s being painted out to be. Most unusual.

 

[Bikeman78]

Bit harsh, given it isn't even compliant with the Train Planning Rules, its timed to close behind 2M54 at Didcot East Junction for a start, headway is 3 minutes. Plus its timed over Didcot East Junction at the same time 2P70 is timed to leave Didcot Parkway, not possible at all.

All you have to do it look at yesterday when all the other trains were more or less on time and it lost 5 minutes Goring to Didcot East!

I'm glad someone agrees with me! There's a train on the up main at 1731 and one on the up relief at 1733. Trying to get 1D34 across three tracks to access the Didcot avoider is impossible, given that it will be approaching a red until 1A25 clears. It's one of the most ludicrous things I've seen. Fortunately one or more of the train in question is usually late so it's rarely a problem on the ground.

 

[43096]

I'm glad someone agrees with me! There's a train on the up main at 1731 and one on the up relief at 1733. Trying to get 1D34 across three tracks to access the Didcot avoider is impossible, given that it will be approaching a red until 1A25 clears. It's one of the most ludicrous things I've seen. Fortunately one or more of the train in question is usually late so it's rarely a problem on the ground.

So what we're saying is the timetable is ****, but is slightly less **** in reality because performance is ****.

Not really the basis on which to run a railway, is it?

In other news, 1C71 0635 Padd-Penzance terminated at Newbury with only one engine reported operational out of 6 on the two 802s.

 

[Bikeman78]

So what we're saying is the timetable is ****, but is slightly less **** in reality because performance is ****.

Not really the basis on which to run a railway, is it?

I wasn't trying to defend the poor performance but, for whatever reason, 1D34 is a very poor timekeeper. It actually made it to Didcot East more or less on time twice this week but both times it was shafted by the unworkable timetable and arrived in Oxford at least five minutes late. I see that it's the same in the new timetable.