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GWR Class 800

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gallafent

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23 Dec 2010
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"Lots" of cold air on a service calling at only 3 stops before it's terminus (I believe only Slough, reading and Didcot) with a train whose doors have a very reliable and well timed auto-close wouldn't be a much of a problem.

In fact, and back on the topic of this thread, some might argue quite strongly that having some doors opening into the saloon from time to time would be an advantage. Just for example, in vehicle 812004 of set 800004 yesterday, mid-morning, when the outside temperature was around 13°C, the inside temperature was 25°C and the humidity 74% (measured after the train had been in passenger service for well over an hour, so not “just off the depot”). Both of those values are above comfortable values, the humidity substantially so. I wonder who/what has control of the air conditioning on these trains, and whether this very unpleasant environment was due to incorrect settings (in which case who allowed these settings to be set?) or failed (1 year old) equipment (on a very easy day to deal with, in terms of weather). There were certainly systems switched on and moving the air around, as evinced by the constant loud whistling sound from the vestibule/saloon doors, caused I guess by a pressure differential between the saloon and the vestibule (or maybe between the carriage and the adjacent carriage or some other pair of separated but not sealed spaces …) and the ear-popping on release of the door seals.

I considered a fellow traveller's assessment of “sauna level” to be hyperbole, but agreed with his sentiment, and considered his electing to stand in the vestibule, so as to be in a more tolerable environment, completely reasonable.
 
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gallafent

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23 Dec 2010
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The other problem is that some signallers are unwilling to switch trains from their booked platforms. I thought the whole point of having pairs of platforms for the up and down main lines was to avoid having to wait outside. Yet there have been many occasions where I've ground to a halt on the viaduct west of Reading. A quick look at open train times reveals that there is a late running train in the booked platform (10 or 11) but the other one is empty.

That's very interesting. I too had thought that pretty much the whole point of the two pairs of platforms on the main line were for exactly that — to interleave trains and thus increase capacity. Late platform changes are not a problem at all either, since it's just a cross-platform move. In fact, just announcing “Train X will leave from platform 10 or 11” until it's actually approaching the station and the final route's been set, would usually be fine for many :)
 

JN114

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28 Jun 2005
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3,522
The other problem is that some signallers are unwilling to switch trains from their booked platforms. I thought the whole point of having pairs of platforms for the up and down main lines was to avoid having to wait outside. Yet there have been many occasions where I've ground to a halt on the viaduct west of Reading. A quick look at open train times reveals that there is a late running train in the booked platform (10 or 11) but the other one is empty.

ARS is set up to use whichever of 10/11 is free, regardless of which platform the train is booked to use. If your train was held on the viaduct while one of 10/11 were supposedly free you’re being held outside for a reason. Open Train Times and other such systems don’t tell the whole story.
 

JN114

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Excellent :) … I assume the same's true in the other direction too :)

It’s slightly more complicated on the Down, because you can’t get from 9 to the B&H or reliefs. It will do a degree of re-platforming; but I forget the rules it uses off hand.

Anyway it’s all way off topic so we’ll cease and desist this tangent before slaps on the wrist come!
 

bastien

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14 Aug 2016
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427
In fact, and back on the topic of this thread, some might argue quite strongly that having some doors opening into the saloon from time to time would be an advantage. Just for example, in vehicle 812004 of set 800004 yesterday, mid-morning, when the outside temperature was around 13°C, the inside temperature was 25°C and the humidity 74% (measured after the train had been in passenger service for well over an hour, so not “just off the depot”). Both of those values are above comfortable values, the humidity substantially so. I wonder who/what has control of the air conditioning on these trains, and whether this very unpleasant environment was due to incorrect settings (in which case who allowed these settings to be set?) or failed (1 year old) equipment (on a very easy day to deal with, in terms of weather). There were certainly systems switched on and moving the air around, as evinced by the constant loud whistling sound from the vestibule/saloon doors, caused I guess by a pressure differential between the saloon and the vestibule (or maybe between the carriage and the adjacent carriage or some other pair of separated but not sealed spaces …) and the ear-popping on release of the door seals.

I considered a fellow traveller's assessment of “sauna level” to be hyperbole, but agreed with his sentiment, and considered his electing to stand in the vestibule, so as to be in a more tolerable environment, completely reasonable.
How did you measure the temperature and humidity, out of interest?
 

samuelmorris

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18 Jul 2013
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Brentwood, Essex
The TMS shows no warning for either of those things.

This really isn’t the issue it’s being painted out to be. Most unusual.
Surely the only thing needed, apart from training the drivers on that feature, is for taking power in turnaround mode to have the same effect as selecting diesel mode when stationary, instead of returning an error that requires rebooting the train to fix, that's just daft. Sure, you'd get degraded performance for the first few minutes while the remaining engines heat up so perhaps include a warning for that, but that would surely be far less disruptive. Doesn't seem like much thought has been put into that.
 

trebor79

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I'm sure there is a good technical reason for the system shutting down completely if you try to start engines whilst under power.
It's distributed traction and generation. When you bring an alternator online on an energised system, it needs to be perfectly synchronised with the rest of the system. That's far easier if all the other engines are running at a steady idle load. If you're under power, the revs will be fluctuating slightly due to gradients, track imperfections etc and it's almost impossible to synchronise.

I used to work in a factory that had its own power plant. We had to turn a lot of stuff off if we needed to put the alternator back online (after it had tripped for whatever reason) for this very same reason.
Bad Things happen if you close the breaker and the phases aren't synchronised. An error message would be the least of your problems.
 

trebor79

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Yep, hence the comment above I guess that it works fine if the train is stopped or coasting but craps out if power is being taken.
Maybe a software mod could sort that out by forcing the train to coast whilst engines are brought online.
 
Joined
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290
Yep, hence the comment above I guess that it works fine if the train is stopped or coasting but craps out if power is being taken.
Maybe a software mod could sort that out by forcing the train to coast whilst engines are brought online.
Why should you need to, how hard is it to start the engines when keying in, Drivers seemed to manage on HST’s they had to mobilise.
 

Weekender

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14 Oct 2018
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I note the 18:33 Cheltenham to Paddington has been cancelled due to a train fault. Don’t know if it’s an IET or HST.
 
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290
So what we're saying is the timetable is ****, but is slightly less **** in reality because performance is ****.

Not really the basis on which to run a railway, is it?

In other news, 1C71 0635 Padd-Penzance terminated at Newbury with only one engine reported operational out of 6 on the two 802s.

It makes me wonder what fantasy factory these reports come from, there were 5 engines operational out of 6.
 

47271

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Wouldn't it be great if the unit plays Bonnie Tyler out of its PA when it's in Turnaround mode?
 

PHILIPE

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14 Nov 2011
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Caerphilly
There have been a lot of cases reported by passengers via Twitter that multiple toilets have been out of use, even a 5 Car unit without a working toilet at all. Unfortunately GWR have limited control over Hitachi units and have to rely on what Hitachi do or say which is not always Customer focused.
 

Mag_seven

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here to eternity
There have been a lot of cases reported by passengers via Twitter that multiple toilets have been out of use, even a 5 Car unit without a working toilet at all. Unfortunately GWR have limited control over Hitachi units and have to rely on what Hitachi do or say which is not always Customer focused.

There were similar issues with toilets on the class 390s when they were first introduced.
 

Starmill

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18 May 2012
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Bolton
Who was it that kept saying the 5 car class 800s were suitable for the off peak Cotswold line services? I'm on the 1822 London Paddington to Moreton-in-Marsh and the Standard class areas of the train are horribly crowded with many passengers forced to stand in the aisles and some who struggled to board because of congestion around the doors. This is pretty unsuitable rolling stock for this service on a Saturday evening. I can see that the first class areas of the train are relatively empty.
 

FGW_DID

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23 Jun 2011
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81D & 81E
Who was it that kept saying the 5 car class 800s were suitable for the off peak Cotswold line services? I'm on the 1822 London Paddington to Moreton-in-Marsh and the Standard class areas of the train are horribly crowded with many passengers forced to stand in the aisles and some who struggled to board because of congestion around the doors. This is pretty unsuitable rolling stock for this service on a Saturday evening. I can see that the first class areas of the train are relatively empty.

9/10 times they are suitable. I've been on a 5 car during morning peak and the vestibules were rammed, same train, same time next day, lots of empty seats. I was on a 9 car just the other evening, some people almost had their own personal coach.
 

Bletchleyite

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9/10 times they are suitable. I've been on a 5 car during morning peak and the vestibules were rammed, same train, same time next day, lots of empty seats

Were those two days Thursday and Friday, perchance? Friday from home is very common practice in London commuter office/professional roles, and you will see that phenomenon in many other places around the South East too. Notably the 0713 Bletchley-Euston is normally all seats taken and a heavy standing load from Watford Monday-Thursday, but there are seats for near enough everyone on a Friday, and empty seats if it's school holidays or a Bank Holiday that weekend.
 

Starmill

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18 May 2012
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9/10 times they are suitable. I've been on a 5 car during morning peak and the vestibules were rammed, same train, same time next day, lots of empty seats. I was on a 9 car just the other evening, some people almost had their own personal coach.
Ah right. So they are unsuitable only on the rare occasion that I'm travelling on them, is that right? ;)
 

Wychwood93

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25 Jan 2018
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Location
Burton. Dorset.
Ah right. So they are unsuitable only on the rare occasion that I'm travelling on them, is that right? ;)
I agree with both of you! From a rolling stock view there are always times when the loading, in theory, requires only a single set - fair enough. However...…….. heavier loadings appear at unexpected times. Does the rolling stock side of things put an 800/3 on all services, just in case, or have 800/0 in the middle of the day, with peak services a touch plumper? In my neck of the woods we used to have, quite often, 12-car REP/TC formations trolling around all day, regardless of need - obviously many years ago. Not that many years ago - this century - I wondered why middle of the day services were not trimmed on the BML. Since those thoughts, travelling patterns have altered a lot, to say the least of it - everyone would appear to leave London, whether work (certainly) or otherwise, a lot earlier than they used to. I have no doubt it is the same on the GWR for Cotswold and other services - you are damned if you provide a longer set and equally so if you do not! One could suggest anticipation in ordering stock (DfT?) at fault - or maybe that we, as humans, can not predict the future in any way. What can easily be predicted is timetabled sporting, and other, events. Other than a shortfall in overall stock, there is no excuse. Some years ago down here it was the case that the normal 4-VEP had a 2-HAP added to cater for 'students' to Brockenhurst 6th form college during term time - the modern railway just has full and standing and does not really appear to care.
 
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