GWR Class 800

[northernbelle]

This thread feels as though it's reached a new peak in assertion based on anecdote and/or opinion.

Before making a judgement on the quality of various factory's trains, I'd probably like to see:
1) MTIN figures for class 800 and class 802 (noting the figure for the 802 is liable to be higher due to the smaller fleet and lower mileages being undertaken)
2) Number of defect reports against each unit and the factory from which they came
3) Type of defects - many are unrelated to the train build / factory it came from and are a result of quality from suppliers (e.g. pantographs from Bracknell Willis)
And more.

"So and so told me X across the buffet counter" means basically nothing!

 

[Bikeman78]

To a casual observer like myself, the problems you mention at Reading seem to have become more apparent since the advent of 8-car 387s on Reading - Paddington stoppers. When these were turbo operated they could use the East end of one of the higher numbered platforms, while an XC service shared the West end of the same platform. Now more XC services have to use P7 or P8 than before. If everything is running fine then there is no issue, but the moment there are delays it can become a bottleneck impeding trains on the Down Main from Paddington. In the morning peak a XC unit sits in P8 0703-0746 so if two Down trains from Paddington end up close together, for whatever reason, the second one has to sit outside waiting for the first to depart P9 in Ye Olde tradition of Reading. Switching to P7 could be used, but rarely is because the amount of time it would take passengers to negotiate the overbridge and (often broken) escalators probably wouldn't save any time over leaving them on P9

The other problem is that some signallers are unwilling to switch trains from their booked platforms. I thought the whole point of having pairs of platforms for the up and down main lines was to avoid having to wait outside. Yet there have been many occasions where I've ground to a halt on the viaduct west of Reading. A quick look at open train times reveals that there is a late running train in the booked platform (10 or 11) but the other one is empty.

 

[Bikeman78]

So a swan wandering around on the main lines (as opposed to the reliefs where the 387 stoppers operate) becomes conflated into Reading still being a bottleneck.

You should try being on an Oxford route fast trying to get through Didcot East junction if you want a bottleneck on the GWML in the Thames Valley these days. Fingers crossed a flyover or diveunder there features in CP6 investment plans.

Talking of Didcot East junction, how on earth is 1D34 supposed to get through at its scheduled time? This has no chance of working.
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/sea...18/11/15/1730-1740?stp=WVS&show=all&order=wtt

 

[irish_rail]

What a bizarre statement. By reliable do you mean faults that take a train out of service, faults that cause significant delays, faults that are a pain, but can be managed, faults that are faults, but don’t have any significant effect.

Well for a start virtually all the 802s are currently diesel only.
Secondly, I have now driven 6 802s and 5 of them I have suffered faults that have either delayed the train in service by more than 5 minutes or delayed departure from the depot. Talk to any Hitachi fitter and they agree, the 802s are currently far less reliable. Take it from those of us who actually work them not your enthusiasts glass half full perspective.

 

[Railperf]

Well for a start virtually all the 802s are currently diesel only.
Secondly, I have now driven 6 802s and 5 of them I have suffered faults that have either delayed the train in service by more than 5 minutes or delayed departure from the depot. Talk to any Hitachi fitter and they agree, the 802s are currently far less reliable. Take it from those of us who actually work them not your enthusiasts glass half full perspective.

Wow, i was lucky to be aboard an 802 in electric mode then!! Can you expand as to why the majority of 802's are in diesel mode only?

 

[FGW_DID]

Yesterday only 802007 & 008 were on the Diesel only list in the Late Notice.

Today it’s just 001 & 007.

So I wouldn’t say virtually all (not to say that they haven’t all featured at some point or another )

 

[Japan0913]

Well for a start virtually all the 802s are currently diesel only.
Secondly, I have now driven 6 802s and 5 of them I have suffered faults that have either delayed the train in service by more than 5 minutes or delayed departure from the depot. Talk to any Hitachi fitter and they agree, the 802s are currently far less reliable. Take it from those of us who actually work them not your enthusiasts glass half full perspective.

If you don't like the job
in order to prevent accidents
is better to change jobs.
Metabolism continues.

 

[Darandio]

This thread gets stranger day by day.

 

[Japan0913]

Hitachi's employees in Japan are excellent.
Hitachi's train in Japan is trusted.
Hitachi deals with the world's best parts maker.
It is Talented craftsmen job to assemble and complete it.
It is Talented craftsmen job to training and drive a car.

I'm sorry in poor English

 

[Railperf]

Yesterday only 802007 & 008 were on the Diesel only list in the Late Notice.

Today it’s just 001 & 007.

So I wouldn’t say virtually all (not to say that they haven’t all featured at some point or another )

What causes them to go on the diesel only list?

 

[Darandio]

Hitachi's employees in Japan are excellent.
Hitachi's train in Japan is trusted.
Hitachi deals with the world's best parts maker.
It is Talented craftsmen job to assemble and complete it.
It is Talented craftsmen job to training and drive a car.

I'm sorry in poor English

So because the units aren't actually as brilliant as the Japanese make out or want them to be at this moment, the driver should quit? It's not his fault!

 

[Bletchleyite]

Hitachi's employees in Japan are excellent.
Hitachi's train in Japan is trusted.
Hitachi deals with the world's best parts maker.
It is Talented craftsmen job to assemble and complete it.

That may be true, but have you seen the rest of the garbage AnsaldoBreda have churned out in the past?

 

[Japan0913]

So because the units aren't actually as brilliant as the Japanese make out or want them to be at this moment, the driver should quit? It's not his fault!

It is better not to drive in an unstable feeling.
Hitachi design is excluded from the United Kingdom if useless.

 

[Railperf]

Talking of Didcot East junction, how on earth is 1D34 supposed to get through at its scheduled time? This has no chance of working.
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/sea...18/11/15/1730-1740?stp=WVS&show=all&order=wtt

If you analyse the data, it isn't rocket science to se how 1D34 gets its path. But it is all very tight and priority will be given to trains that can achieve PPM. From what i can see the Cross Country service crosses from the relief to the up main line towards Reading. The 2 locals are booked up and down the relief as soon as the XC has crossed in front of them. The Paddington up fast service has an extended stop at Didcot to allow the junction to clear. And after it has left towards Reading, the junction clears for 1D34 to cross the up main and then onto the relief lines which should now be clear.

 

[Japan0913]

That may be true, but have you seen the rest of the garbage AnsaldoBreda have churned out in the past?

At the end of the AnsaldoBreda certainly was.
So bankruptcy.
Parts and equipment and employees has scrutiny Hitachi Italy.
The condition is along with the British

 

[louis97]

If you analyse the data, it isn't rocket science to se how 1D34 gets its path. But it is all very tight and priority will be given to trains that can achieve PPM. From what i can see the Cross Country service crosses from the relief to the up main line towards Reading. The 2 locals are booked up and down the relief as soon as the XC has crossed in front of them. The Paddington up fast service has an extended stop at Didcot to allow the junction to clear. And after it has left towards Reading, the junction clears for 1D34 to cross the up main and then onto the relief lines which should now be clear.

Bit harsh, given it isn't even compliant with the Train Planning Rules, its timed to close behind 2M54 at Didcot East Junction for a start, headway is 3 minutes. Plus its timed over Didcot East Junction at the same time 2P70 is timed to leave Didcot Parkway, not possible at all.

All you have to do it look at yesterday when all the other trains were more or less on time and it lost 5 minutes Goring to Didcot East!

 

[43096]

That may be true, but have you seen the rest of the garbage AnsaldoBreda have churned out in the past?

And let’s be honest, the 395s have not set the world on fire, either. With all the “Japanese reliability” hype they should be blitzing those Golden Spanner awards. But they aren’t.

Rather suggests Hitachi is just another average train builder.

 

[Bletchleyite]

And let’s be honest, the 395s have not set the world on fire, either. With all the “Japanese reliability” hype they should be blitzing those Golden Spanner awards. But they aren’t.

Quite, it is in fact German engineering (Siemens) that seems to be doing quite well there, no?

 

[Japan0913]

And let’s be honest, the 395s have not set the world on fire, either. With all the “Japanese reliability” hype they should be blitzing those Golden Spanner awards. But they aren’t.

Rather suggests Hitachi is just another average train builder.

Quite, it is in fact German engineering (Siemens) that seems to be doing quite well there, no?

Two years later, All、move from Newton Aycliffe to Aloa and Goole?

 

[43096]

Quite, it is in fact German engineering (Siemens) that seems to be doing quite well there, no?

Correct. Alstom as well at one point with the 458s, though that was down to Wimbledon depot rather than the builder.

It will be very interesting to see how Stadler’s products do in years to come.

 

[FGW_DID]

What causes them to go on the diesel only list?

Only being able to run in diesel

Seriously though - It’s not just one issue, it could be anything from a fault to an overdue pantograph inspection. Some may run fine when running solo but may have issues when coupled to certain units.

 

[Wychwood93]

A heads up on my day of sampling 800's Reading-Swindon on a.c - apart, obviously, from the Steventon area. 1B20 1012 from Reading was 800302 and 5 late away - on diesel all the way. Paper seat reservations - no res display. 1L42 1030 from Swindon was 800017 and 19 late - advised over p.a that no seat reservations as running 5 vice booked 10. Running under a.c where it could - checked down to 11 after Milton and then a 6m 29s stop in Didcot. Looks like the 1P24 1101 OXF-PAD running RT allowed ahead over Didcot East. 25.5 late away from Didcot and slightly down to 25 late on arriving at Reading. Next the 1C12 1158 from Reading - 800307 on a.c. apart from... Steventon. RT away and a half early into Swindon. Looks like the 1L50 from Cheltenham, running 3 late, checked our progress at Didcot East. Speed very much eased after Uffington, passed at 123, and what appeared to be coasting onwards to Swindon. Paper seat reservations. Finally the 1L52 1230 from Swindon - sets 800026/800003 - 1.5 late away on electric. Passed Wantage Road at 122, down to 113 changing to diesel and then up to 115 at Steventon. Pan up in the platform at Didcot. Very much a cruise in from Tilehurst (101) to Reading - early 1.5 arrival. No seat reservations. Ditto the latter on my onward 1O14 1349 from Reading to Bournemouth - just paper reservations saying that the seat may be reserved for all or part of the journey.

 

[irish_rail]

Wow, i was lucky to be aboard an 802 in electric mode then!! Can you expand as to why the majority of 802's are in diesel mode only?

For the record I don't think yours was on electric as I remember checking my late notices the day you said you were on certain 802s and one of them was on a diesel only restriction so it is fairly likely you were on diesel that day. Admittedly with 802s they accelerate up to 40ish so well on diesel it can be hard to tell the difference.

 

[Railperf]

Bit harsh, given it isn't even compliant with the Train Planning Rules, its timed to close behind 2M54 at Didcot East Junction for a start, headway is 3 minutes. Plus its timed over Didcot East Junction at the same time 2P70 is timed to leave Didcot Parkway, not possible at all.

All you have to do it look at yesterday when all the other trains were more or less on time and it lost 5 minutes Goring to Didcot East!

What are the train planning rules? I'm not a timetabler, so I would not know. Am i right in thinking that as the route for 1D34 is set to for the Didcot avoiding lines, it isn't technically 3 minutes behind 2M54. There seems to be 1 minute pathing allowance in 2P70 route to Goring- so presumably that is to allow for 1D34 to cross ahead of it. Anyway- i'm sure we are way off topic now lol! Maybe we need to create a thread regarding train paths through Didcot East!!

 

[irish_rail]

If you don't like the job
in order to prevent accidents
is better to change jobs.
Metabolism continues.

Who said I wasn't enjoying the ride??!!! I just feel for the passenger's who ultimately pay my wages, a little empathy is no bad thing in this job.....

 

[irish_rail]

Only being able to run in diesel

Seriously though - It’s not just one issue, it could be anything from a fault to an overdue pantograph inspection. Some may run fine when running solo but may have issues when coupled to certain units.

Hitachi fitter told me the problem is cracked pantograph heads.

 

[Railperf]

For the record I don't think yours was on electric as I remember checking my late notices the day you said you were on certain 802s and one of them was on a diesel only restriction so it is fairly likely you were on diesel that day. Admittedly with 802s they accelerate up to 40ish so well on diesel it can be hard to tell the difference.

Ah, that is interesting. We definitely departed with one of the units in electric mode - the acceleration was phenomenal - and seemingly better than a double 800 set in electric mode. I would have thought having one unit running on diesel - and the other on electric - would have meant a lower performance than 2 800's on electric. Who knows? At Reading - it switched to full diesel as it was running via Newbury!

Please can you confirm - the units were 802006 and 802011 on Tuesday 13th on the 1633 Padd to Exeter

 

[samuelmorris]

Hitachi fitter told me the problem is cracked pantograph heads.

Across the board or only on particular unit(s)?

 

[irish_rail]

Very unlikely that one would be running diesel and one electric though it is technically possible. Unless the issue with the one set was resolved / lifted during the course of the day or of course even the driver may have forgotten about the restriction!!!

 

[Railperf]

Hitachi fitter told me the problem is cracked pantograph heads.

Are the 802's fitted with different pantograph heads to 800's?