I'd be shocked if it's a regular occurrence for a train to remain standing room only all the way between paddington and Penzance considering it's certainly way to far to be a commuter town for London
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GWR Class 800
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All trains are allocated these IDs or 'Head Codes' as they are known, they used to be displayed on the front of the train to assist in their identification
The 1st number relates to the classification of the train
The letter denotes a specific destination / route / area
The next two numbers are specific to that train (but can repeat after a period of time).
Lots more info here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Train_reporting_number
Which could be used as a description of just about any modern train.
We know you like the Grammar IC3000 - you mention it that many times on this forum I am starting to wonder if you are on commission from Grammer.
That does not mean everyone else does. My back doesn't, for one, nor do many people like the claustrophobic feel they have given to GWR HSTs in standard class for the past decade.
reddragon
Established Member
I'd imagine someone could do a roaring trade selling old GWR 1st class seats converted for home use!! Could fit out a class 20 with some too. . .
I'm sure you aren't, but i'd imagine some here would wonder if you are on commission from Hitachi!
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
This wasn't a pure advocacy post - it was more the point that if the same seats had been fitted as people presently have, they would have almost no reason not to like the 800 when compared with the HST, and a few reasons to prefer it.
Realistically this is also true of quite a number of other seat designs, e.g. the classic Chapman, were that still available.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
I wouldn't say one looked more modern than the other. However the HST looks homely, and the 800 looks like a prison cell. And the reason for this (as you can't know what the seats feel like if you are not sitting on them) is solely the choice of colour scheme. Rich, deep colours mean a homely feel, while greys and light colours mean Spartan and uncomfortable.
The rest of it is a tube with windows (of about the same size and positioning) and overhead luggage racks (of about the same size and positioning, though the 800 one is a bit bigger and so more practical).
It would have been so, so easy to get it right.
Actually, here you go:
Virgin Azuma class 80x Standard interior
How much better is that? And it is purely colour palette that has changed, nothing else.
I find it odd that the GW sets don't have green headrests. Doesn't make it feel very welcoming, despite them having changed the fabric once already, and green headrests being their standard design (odd)?
Maybe green is an unsafe colour for fires.
Maybe green is an unsafe colour for fires.
43096
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How ironic....
That’s more down to the seat layout - the appalling cram them layout with its rows of “tombstones”. The seats are too tall, but it’s the layout, lighting and over-tinted windows that are the real issue.
Shouldn’t be allowed to call them head rests! I basically had the rock hard narrow top of the seat pressing into the back of my head.
Railperf
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Yes the gwr colour scheme is about as homely as a dentist surgery. And there is something really quite warm about the reds used by LNER. I was actually thinking recently that the class 222 interiors on East Midlands Trains are quite warm as well even if they are starting to look a little tired. Maybe dark green seats would have been a warmer choice for GWR matching their corporate livery?I wouldn't say one looked more modern than the other. However the HST looks homely, and the 800 looks like a prison cell. And the reason for this (as you can't know what the seats feel like if you are not sitting on them) is solely the choice of colour scheme. Rich, deep colours mean a homely feel, while greys and light colours mean Spartan and uncomfortable.
The rest of it is a tube with windows (of about the same size and positioning) and overhead luggage racks (of about the same size and positioning, though the 800 one is a bit bigger and so more practical).
It would have been so, so easy to get it right.
Actually, here you go:
Virgin Azuma class 80x Standard interior
How much better is that? And it is purely colour palette that has changed, nothing else.
43096
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You mean, like the moquette Great Western Trains used in their 1997 HST refurbishment?
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
The stupid things press into the back of my shoulders forcing me to hunch forwards. Even worse in the First Class seats; coupled with the table supports I find Standard more comfortable (or rather less uncomfortable). They need to be a bit higher up or just flat.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
Yes, that would work. Perhaps two-tone in some way like the VT red ones. It works quite well to break a long thin tube of seats up if not all the seats are quite the same colour - you have two similar colours with accenting and swap the base colour and accenting over on some seats.
SamYeager
Member
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@Bletchleyite Before this thread gets derailed further on the subject of seats can I just say STOP!. I'm sure the mods have strongly suggested in the past that the subject of seats and their comfort or otherwise should be taken up in a separate thread. 
The colour of the seats is completely unimportant when the seats themselves are so awful.
One of our finance guys worked for Hitachi Rail, we had an interesting conversation over a few beers recently. Everybody within Hitachi hated the Fainsa seats and were dismayed that the DFT specified the cheapest seats from the worst supplier. He confirmed the excuses put out about fire regulations meaning that seats have to be so thin and hard is complete nonsense.
One of our finance guys worked for Hitachi Rail, we had an interesting conversation over a few beers recently. Everybody within Hitachi hated the Fainsa seats and were dismayed that the DFT specified the cheapest seats from the worst supplier. He confirmed the excuses put out about fire regulations meaning that seats have to be so thin and hard is complete nonsense.
It could've still been done. Southeastern with their two shades of blue isn't entirely 'homely' in my opinion. If blue is done wrong, it can come out rather clinical like Govia have done on the 700s and 717s. For how bright the lights are, there's simply too much white. Southeastern have managed to make their 375 Electrostars quite homely I think, even with working mainly with a cold colour. The pattern on the seats rather than a plain fabric helps, so does the mix of maroon and navy blue for the carpet. Obviously electrostar lighting being less harsh helps but I wholeheartedly think with a bit more thought, GWR would've been able to make a welcoming interior to the 80x.
CMRail
Member
All they need is padding but even then I don’t mind them. We don’t need higher seats that feel squashed.
How is the IET depressing? The nice lighting, leg room and options to comfort greatly improves the welcoming feel of the train.
How is the IET depressing? The nice lighting, leg room and options to comfort greatly improves the welcoming feel of the train.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
Grey, grey, grey, grey, and if you were bored of it more grey. And that lime green strip that's straight out of a 1990s bus.
I'm sure you aren't, but i'd imagine some here would wonder if you are on commission from Hitachi!
I wish - but then I haven't actually said that the 80xs are the best thing ever to take to two rails.
Red is not everyone's favourite colour and I think I've said before that just looking at the artist's impression of the proposed Virgin first class gives me a headache - see page 8 of the LNER Class 800/801 thread. I hope LNER have had a rethink.
I maybe wrong but I think as a relative youngster (maybe +- 5yrs adult experience of rail travel) most of what you have to compare with the IETs is pretty awful especially from 'Glowcester' but for the rest of us in mainline land (Not Commuters) the IET is a massive downgrade that has us looking at alternatives to rail
CMRail
Member
w
Eh? It’s a train and we go on it? Doesn’t really matter where you are and a I travel through Swindon to London most days. As you said that invalidated my opinion.
Eh? It’s a train and we go on it? Doesn’t really matter where you are and a I travel through Swindon to London most days. As you said that invalidated my opinion.
Thanks for the info on that.It looks confusing to read, but I will read it thoroughly later on and make a few notes.Many thx once again
Maybe not, but you do feel an almost compulsive need to defend them from criticism at every opportunity.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
That's not unfair when the only thing fundamentally wrong with it relates to very easily-changed aspects of the interior. It's like saying you won't buy a house because you don't like the sofa the current owner has in it or the wallpaper in the back bedroom.
Disagree. How many years will it take before the interior changes? 10?
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