GWR Class 800

[Domh245]

I believe Hitachi are considering building a friction stir-welding plant in Italy but I don't think they have made a decision yet.

There is however MIG welding facilities at Pistoia, so they can work from body panels

(lifted from this article)

 

[ANP1990]

Was delayed this morning because of a broken down train - looked like a 2x5 car set sat down at Hayes and Harlington. Anyone know if that is the case and what the problem was?

 

[DidcotDickie]

Was delayed this morning because of a broken down train - looked like a 2x5 car set sat down at Hayes and Harlington. Anyone know if that is the case and what the problem was?

1B05 6:45 Padd to Swansea has failed at Hayes, reported elsewhere that it won't work on electric or diesel. Units 800020+800012. Rescue loco reportedly summoned from Old Oak Common (class 57?) and at the time of posting there appears to be a 0Z99 positioned in the down loop at Southall. All westbound services via the down relief through Hayes.

 

[najaB]

1B05 6:45 Padd to Swansea has failed at Hayes, reported elsewhere that it won't work on electric or diesel. Units 800020+800012. Rescue loco reportedly summoned from Old Oak Common (class 57?) and at the time of posting there appears to be a 0Z99 positioned in the down loop at Southall. All westbound services via the down relief through Hayes.

Well, that's a day's pay that Agility won't be getting.

 

[DidcotDickie]

Well, that's a day's pay that Agility won't be getting.

Quite. Passengers reportedly detrained onto the ballast as the train was short of the station! Must be a serious problem if they can't detach one good set from the pair.

 

[TwistedMentat]

Quite. Passengers reportedly detrained onto the ballast as the train was short of the station! Must be a serious problem if they can't detach one good set from the pair.

Or isolate one set from the other and limp into the next platform. Ouch.

Mind you this is probably where the DfT points out that this is what the contract setup was designed to do. If a set isn't 100% then the TOC/taxpayer spend nothing.

 

[bonzawe]

Or isolate one set from the other and limp into the next platform. Ouch.

Mind you this is probably where the DfT points out that this is what the contract setup was designed to do. If a set isn't 100% then the TOC/taxpayer spend nothing.

If there really is no payment for the entire diagram where is the incentive for a replacement/substitution later in the diagram. There must be occasions where a set cannot be provided first thing but later in the day this set or an alternative is available. If this derives no further revenue you will have more cancellations

 

[bonzawe]

The rescue continues. looks like a class 57 is gong to assist


fir time I have seen a signaler enter the loco number in the bi di berths!

 

[bonzawe]

The rescue continues. looks like a class 57 is gong to assist
View attachment 40705

first time I have seen a signaler enter the loco number in the bi di berths!

5B05 now in Southall sidings, the 57 moved away light, it appears they got the 800 to work to some extent.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Mind you this is probably where the DfT points out that this is what the contract setup was designed to do. If a set isn't 100% then the TOC/taxpayer spend nothing.

That might be true commercially, but the magic of bi-mode is not supposed to leave you in the lurch like this...

 

[BestWestern]

Was this the same pair which failed at Pad on the 15.30 yesterday I wonder?

 

[TractiveEffort]

Was this the same pair which failed at Pad on the 15.30 yesterday I wonder?

No and it was only one that had an issue yesterday, not the pair, went to LNP and came back out after shunting one off and one on.

 

[absolutelymilk]

Is this the first time that a full ten-car unit has failed to work on either electric or diesel?

 

[JN114]

Is this the first time that a full ten-car unit has failed to work on either electric or diesel?

No; albeit previous failures haven’t been in passenger service or at such a critical time of day.

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

What it is, is the first time that a 5-car has attempted to rescue a distressed 10-car and the faults have seemingly transferred through the coupling process leaving a demic 15-car monster blocking the main line with brakes locked on. Surely the testing process should have worked these sort of problems out?

 

[Sean Emmett]

Have I got this right - down main blocked for SIX hours?

Sorry, but this is utterly pathetic.

Even the combined efforts of Nunney Castle and Tangers have failed to cause such chaos.

Wasn't there a post on here a few days ago questioning the current state of chaos on the GWML?

Well, as that guy in Tora! Tora! Tora! (whose reports of Japanese submarine activity at Pearl Harbour were dismissed) said. "You want confirmation? We'll here's your confirmation".

 

[Mag_seven]

Got caught up in this this morning. At one point there was a massive queue of trains waiting to get into Pad - were trains on the UP Main being cautioned past the failure? My train (plus some others) was diverted onto the UP Relief line from Dolphin Junction and took what seemed like an eternity to get to Padd. Incidentally GWR Journey Check at first stated the delays were due to "safety inspections of the track" but that was later changed to "broken down train".

 

[Trailfinder]

At 21:13, its still in Southall TC, 5Z06 due to depart at 21:40 for North Pole. There was an earlier movement 5Z05 at 19:30.

 

[JN114]

Have I got this right - down main blocked for SIX hours?

Sorry, but this is utterly pathetic.

Even the combined efforts of Nunney Castle and Tangers have failed to cause such chaos.

Wasn't there a post on here a few days ago questioning the current state of chaos on the GWML?

Well, as that guy in Tora! Tora! Tora! (whose reports of Japanese submarine activity at Pearl Harbour were dismissed) said. "You want confirmation? We'll here's your confirmation".

What ridiculous hyperbole.

What about the 180 that broke down at Peterborough on the Down Fast for 6 hours a little over a week ago?

What about the 66-hauled freight train that blocked the Up Relief line at Hayes for 4 hours during a 2 track sunday a few weekends ago.

What about the 9 car HX unit that failed across Airport Junction for 4 1/2 hours in the summer?

What about the HST that sat near Pewsey for nearly 7 hours (with passengers onboard throughout) a couple of years ago.

What about the almost nightly failures of the GW sleepers a few years ago; again often for hours at a time.

Yes, a 10 car 800 broke down on the Down Main this morning. Yes, the nature of the fault meant it couldn’t move for some time. Traction failures on the main line really aren’t a new thing - but because certain portions of the enthusiast community for some reason have an axe to grind; you’d have thought there’s never been a train fault in the history of railways before the IETs were introduced.

I see one or two isolated incidents; certainly not anything that could remotely be described as “chaos”.

 

[JN114]

Got caught up in this this morning. At one point there was a massive queue of trains waiting to get into Pad - were trains on the UP Main being cautioned past the failure? My train (plus some others) was diverted onto the UP Relief line from Dolphin Junction and took what seemed like an eternity to get to Padd. Incidentally GWR Journey Check at first stated the delays were due to "safety inspections of the track" but that was later changed to "broken down train".

The initial fault was an ADD (automatic drop device) activation on the IET units. This is usually indicative of an OHL fault. Trains had to be cautioned on all lines until they were examined by OHL engineers. At that time of morning the disruption would have been significant.

Once both units were panned Down; they were then unable to take power in Diesel or Electric mode; this was further complicated by them not being able to obtain brake release from either the 57, or the 3rd 800 that were both sent to rescue. There was no fault transference; the 3rd 800 didn’t have any issues; it simply wasn’t capable of moving a 10 car with brakes locked hard on (understandably!)

 

[Mag_seven]

At that time of morning the disruption would have been significant.

Take it from me it was!

 

[JN114]

What it is, is the first time that a 5-car has attempted to rescue a distressed 10-car and the faults have seemingly transferred through the coupling process leaving a demic 15-car monster blocking the main line with brakes locked on. Surely the testing process should have worked these sort of problems out?

There will always be edge cases that just weren’t either considered; or were considered not to be an issue. The type has never had a real-life ADD activation (that I’ve been aware of). The non-function of the traction package after ADD activation is concerning; but I’m confident that data will be scrutinised going forward and lessons learnt. The cost of today’s incident to agility will be eye-watering.

 

[Filton Bank]

There will always be edge cases that just weren’t either considered; or were considered not to be an issue. The type has never had a real-life ADD activation (that I’ve been aware of). The non-function of the traction package after ADD activation is concerning; but I’m confident that data will be scrutinised going forward and lessons learnt. The cost of today’s incident to agility will be eye-watering.

The very first passenger service on Oct 16th had an ADD activation, which first raised the issue of being unable to inititate diesel mode subsequently.

I think you're being overly defensive about the 800s. I agree that saying that they have caused 'chaos' is hyperbole, but there are still an awful lot of unresolved issues that are causing an unacceptable amount of delay minutes.

 

[jayah]

The very first passenger service on Oct 16th had an ADD activation, which first raised the issue of being unable to inititate diesel mode subsequently.

I think you're being overly defensive about the 800s. I agree that saying that they have caused 'chaos' is hyperbole, but there are still an awful lot of unresolved issues that are causing an unacceptable amount of delay minutes.

It certainly caused chaos. No doubt about that and not at all hyperbolic to tell the truth.

A lot of 'whataboutism' going on here, referencing the HST at Pewsey from 2013 a bit more than a couple of years ago!

Trouble is there is a lot of bad stuff that has gone on, being used to excuse more bad stuff. Not good at all.

Anyone know if Hitachi are liable for their lost diagrams or the consequential delays too?

 

[JN114]

The very first passenger service on Oct 16th had an ADD activation, which first raised the issue of being unable to inititate diesel mode subsequently

Different issue. The pantographs failed to raise on the first day, the warning to the driver was displayed as an ADD - but a drop device can’t activate if the Pan isn’t raised and the train isn’t running on electric. It also got going after 20 minutes when the hitachi travelling engineer realised that in fault finding the first issue; they’d isolated the wrong thing and that was what was preventing forward movement.

but there are still an awful lot of unresolved issues that are causing an unacceptable amount of delay minutes.

Are there? What issues? There’s been one or two door issues; but even accounting for fleet size the 800s aren’t causing nearly as many delay minutes as HSTs are at the moment. Of course; any delay is unacceptable; but you make out that they’re the most unreliable trains on the network. My day to day observation; actually managing disruption on the network; is somewhat different. Perhaps it’s the old adage of people only pay attention to the bad news...

It certainly caused chaos. No doubt about that and not at all hyperbolic to tell the truth.

A lot of 'whataboutism' going on here, referencing the HST at Pewsey from 2013 a bit more than a couple of years ago!

Someone said that “Even castles didn’t stop on the mainline for 6 hours” - and while that may be correct; I felt it necessary to point out that this really isn’t the first total traction failure in recent memory to go on for several hours.

I think you're being overly defensive about the 800s.

Maybe. I just sit here dealing with disruption on the GWML as my day job and can count the number of significant incidents due to IETs I’ve had to deal with on the fingers of one hand; and that is Chaos and unacceptable. Meanwhile every day there are issues (plural) with HSTs causing significant delay but apparently if posters here are to be believed that’s fine.

 

[D1009]

The initial fault was an ADD (automatic drop device) activation on the IET units. This is usually indicative of an OHL fault. Trains had to be cautioned on all lines until they were examined by OHL engineers. At that time of morning the disruption would have been significant.

Once both units were panned Down; they were then unable to take power in Diesel or Electric mode; this was further complicated by them not being able to obtain brake release from either the 57, or the 3rd 800 that were both sent to rescue. There was no fault transference; the 3rd 800 didn’t have any issues; it simply wasn’t capable of moving a 10 car with brakes locked hard on (understandably!)

I suppose if the initial fault was proved to be caused by an OLE fault, the delay attribution will prove interesting!

 

[43096]

I see one or two isolated incidents; certainly not anything that could remotely be described as “chaos”.

So why have Hitachi senior management been called in to see GWR top brass about the unacceptable level of performance currently being delivered?

 

[TwistedMentat]

On my way to lunch about an hour ago saw an 800 set under electric power about to go through Reading. Looks like testing is still going. Not long until the Jan 2 switchover.

https://imgur.com/gallery/hpYtf

 

[D1009]

Not long until the Jan 2 switchover.

Isn't it Jan 1?

 

[AnonymousUser1]

But the HST prototype did run around for some years and the production trains still suffered plenty of teething troubles in their early days.

don;t go stating facts like that you'll upset the crayonistas and their teddies might get sore heads from being chucked out the pram