GWR Class 800

[Master29]

When are 9 car IETs entering service? Will the 802 9 cars enter service before the 800 ones? I’ve only seen 9 car 802s. No 9 car 800s (GWR)

5 car 802 001/002 are around at the moment.

 

[Goldfish62]

From what I've seen of pictures, 1st in the 800 seems very similar to Standard in an ICE, seat-wise. I'm still yet to go on one!

Looking at the Fainsa website I think they are the same basic design as the 2nd Class ICE seats.

 

[Waverleystu]

Informed posting on wnxx suggests that 800023 should be accepted on Monday or Tuesday to add to 800005/6/8-15/7/8/20 in service.

There appears to be a gen group 'ietgen' created with workings on groups.io which includes reports of 800s in service.

Thanks for the detailed info. I guess the 9 car set is due in service soon?

 

[JN114]

“Spring” is the only timescale I’ve heard on the 9 cars.

 

[aar0]

Oh ok thanks. So we won’t see 9 car sets to Bristol/South Wales then?

As I understand it, South Wales won't be getting 9 cars at all, just 2x5s

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

As I understand it, South Wales won't be getting 9 cars at all, just 2x5s

Ok, thanks

 

[Clarence Yard]

As I understand it, South Wales won't be getting 9 cars at all, just 2x5s

No, there will be some 9 car workings into Wales as the fleet is introduced. The 9 cars are due to start entering GWR service in June, a few weeks before the 802 sets (2 x 5 car). There are fixed acceptance dates for all the IET sets, as listed in the IEP contract with the DfT and June is currently the earliest date that a 9 car cl.800 can enter passenger service.

 

[Envoy]

Clarence > are you saying that 9 car trains could be in service sooner than June and are just ‘sitting around’ because of the DfT contract? Surely, it would be in everybody’s interests to get the new trains into service so that the HST’s can go to Scotland and the GWR can have their ‘mini’ HST fleet (modified) and up and running.

 

[PHILIPE]

Clarence > are you saying that 9 car trains could be in service sooner than June and are just ‘sitting around’ because of the DfT contract? Surely, it would be in everybody’s interests to get the new trains into service so that the HST’s can go to Scotland and the GWR can have their ‘mini’ HST fleet (modified) and up and running.

The HSTs are on their way to Scotland as per the contract date and work has already been started on the mini sets at Doncaster.

 

[Clarence Yard]

Clarence > are you saying that 9 car trains could be in service sooner than June and are just ‘sitting around’ because of the DfT contract? Surely, it would be in everybody’s interests to get the new trains into service so that the HST’s can go to Scotland and the GWR can have their ‘mini’ HST fleet (modified) and up and running.

They won't be sitting around. There will be all kinds of tests that Hitachi will want to do before they get to acceptance with GWR. The first two are due to be handed over on the 8th June.

As Philipe says, the HST sets are booked off lease and into Wabtec on specific dates. They can't be advanced, not least because Wabtec are struggling to meet their existing programme because a lot of their staff have jumped ship to Hitachi. Something that GWR are suffering with too.

 

[Typhoon_93]

The first two are due to be handed over on the 8th June.

I would expect most of the 800/3 to be ready to de accepted by June looking at the way they are delivering the shells into Aycliffe. The first Aycliffe assembled one (304) is in Test now.

 

[cb00]

Hope someone can clear up my confusion - I spoke with a GWR TM today about the class 800s on the Cotswold Line. He implied that the great aspect of the 800s was that if there was a fault, even if it was with the WiFi, that couldn't be resolved, the entire unit would be taken out of service by Hitachi and fixed.

I didn't have time to follow up and ask whether there are spare 800s on standby for instances where one is taken out of service or whether the scheduled services to be run by that unit would simply be cancelled until the set was brought back into service.

 

[najaB]

I didn't have time to follow up and ask whether there are spare 800s on standby for instances where one is taken out of service or whether the scheduled services to be run by that unit would simply be cancelled until the set was brought back into service.

With the trains provided under the IEP, Agility Trains gets paid by completed diagrams with no passenger-affecting faults. It's up to them how they will achieve this, but having a spare unit or two seems likely to be part of the solution.

 

[gsnedders]

With the trains provided under the IEP, Agility Trains gets paid by completed diagrams with no passenger-affecting faults. It's up to them how they will achieve this, but having a spare unit or two seems likely to be part of the solution.

And Agility Trains are responsible for all maintenance under the IEP.

 

[43096]

With the trains provided under the IEP, Agility Trains gets paid by completed diagrams with no passenger-affecting faults. It's up to them how they will achieve this, but having a spare unit or two seems likely to be part of the solution.

And they have failed miserably so far. The service is shambolic and it is to be hoped it is costing Agility a large amount of money.

 

[najaB]

And they have failed miserably so far. The service is shambolic and it is to be hoped it is costing Agility a large amount of money.

If the service is shambolic and if it's the fault of the product then yes, Agility will have lost money.

 

[jimm]

And they have failed miserably so far. The service is shambolic and it is to be hoped it is costing Agility a large amount of money.

Shambolic? Really? In what way?

The biggest problem facing GWR passengers right now is whether there will be enough crew available to operate their service - irrespective of the type of train supposed to be working it.

Or have I missed the mass cancellations of IET services somehow?

 

[cb00]

Thanks all - interesting to hear that they only get paid per diagram. I'm one of the few enjoying the HSTs before they disappear.

 

[BestWestern]

Thanks all - interesting to hear that they only get paid per diagram. I'm one of the few enjoying the HSTs before they disappear.

You can rest assured you are one of many!

 

[Envoy]

Many thanks Philipe & Clarence for your responses to my query about the 9 car sets.

Are the body shells still being shipped over from Japan? (I thought that this was only going to be the first few trains).

 

[najaB]

Are the body shells still being shipped over from Japan? (I thought that this was only going to be the first few trains).

I could well be wrong, but I thought the shells were always going to be built overseas (in Japan and Italy) and then built up and fitted out in Newton Aycliffe. This is because the friction stir welding plant was too big an investment for a relatively limited production run, given that there was already a plant this side of the Pacific.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Hope someone can clear up my confusion - I spoke with a GWR TM today about the class 800s on the Cotswold Line. He implied that the great aspect of the 800s was that if there was a fault, even if it was with the WiFi, that couldn't be resolved, the entire unit would be taken out of service
I didn't have time to follow up and ask whether there are spare 800s on standby for instances where one is taken out of service or whether the scheduled services to be run by that unit would simply be cancelled until the set was brought back into service.

That's no different from (eg) Virgin Trains and their Pendolinos which are maintained by Alstom under contract.
Or any of the new fleets with contracted maintenance (class 700, 345 etc).
They operate to contractual levels of set availability, so they will turn out an alternative set if there is one.
But at times of poor fleet reliability, gaps will occur and they (Agility/Hitachi, Alstom, Bombardier etc) will lose money.
The difference for GWR (and VTEC) is going from in-house maintenance to contracted (and hence the high leasing costs).

 

[irish_rail]

Thanks all - interesting to hear that they only get paid per diagram. I'm one of the few enjoying the HSTs before they disappear.

Good man . 800s will be with us for the next 30 years so better to enjoy the wonderful HSTs in their final days as intercity trains......

 

[Clarence Yard]

That's no different from (eg) Virgin Trains and their Pendolinos which are maintained by Alstom under contract.
Or any of the new fleets with contracted maintenance (class 700, 345 etc).
They operate to contractual levels of set availability, so they will turn out an alternative set if there is one.
But at times of poor fleet reliability, gaps will occur and they (Agility/Hitachi, Alstom, Bombardier etc) will lose money.
The difference for GWR (and VTEC) is going from in-house maintenance to contracted (and hence the high leasing costs).

It's quite different as the contract is for diagrams, not sets. These diagrams have to be agreed with Agility beforehand and Agility have a lot of say in what happens during the day, as opposed to the Virgin/Alstom contract where there is more "free enjoyment" of the train for the operator. For example, GWR can't even step up or down a set at will.

The number of spare sets is less than what Agility were planning at this stage and with a number of niggling electronic faults, the units are not performing faultlessly. Add to that the precarious GWR staff position and the picture out there isn't what it should be. The good news is that no more HST diagrams are due to be converted until February 12th (although there is a diagram reset on January 2nd as a result of the timetable change) so there is an opportunity for everyone to catch up and sort a few issues out.

 

[43096]

Shambolic? Really? In what way?

The biggest problem facing GWR passengers right now is whether there will be enough crew available to operate their service - irrespective of the type of train supposed to be working it.

Or have I missed the mass cancellations of IET services somehow?

There have been regular cancellations/part cancellations as a result of set failures from day one. That's before you get on to 5 vice 10 short forms, sets blocking the flyover at Reading for 20mins, sets running with an engine out etc etc etc

GWR are just as bad: HST short forms, regular unit shortages and staff shortages.

The whole operation is an utter farce currently. Thing is, it was all utterly predictable and management is too clueless and inept to see it.

 

[Clarence Yard]

There have been regular cancellations/part cancellations as a result of set failures from day one. That's before you get on to 5 vice 10 short forms, sets blocking the flyover at Reading for 20mins, sets running with an engine out etc etc etc

GWR are just as bad: HST short forms, regular unit shortages and staff shortages.

The whole operation is an utter farce currently. Thing is, it was all utterly predictable and management is too clueless and inept to see it.

Nice rant. So what did the management miss that was under their control and how do you propose they deal with the situation?

 

[gsnedders]

Thanks all - interesting to hear that they only get paid per diagram.

The other notable thing, given I assume you haven't read all 6k posts in this thread, is that Agility got paid nothing from the time they won the IEP procurement contract till the first diagram ran in service a few months ago, and the fact they had to raise the funds for Hitachi to build them privately is a large part of the cost of the contract (given Hitachi has millions in loans, plus interest, to repay for the R&D costs).

 

[Mordac]

Saw 802002 just out of Paddington as I was heading to Heathrow. Any idea what it was doing?

 

[FGW_DID]

As I was leaving work today around 1500, saw 800302 departing Reading Stn. (5X30 London Paddington - Taunton)

 

[jimm]

An 800 ran from Stoke Gifford to Hereford and back via the Cotswold Line today, presumably in place of the working a couple of Sundays back that fell foul of the snow and only got to Worcester.

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/V18325/2017/12/19/advanced
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/O53898/2017/12/19/advanced

Picture by Martin Loader of the train stopping at Finstock for an SDO check

http://hondawanderer.com/800014_Finstock_2017.htm

I could well be wrong, but I thought the shells were always going to be built overseas (in Japan and Italy) and then built up and fitted out in Newton Aycliffe. This is because the friction stir welding plant was too big an investment for a relatively limited production run, given that there was already a plant this side of the Pacific.

All the bodyshells for trains assembled at Newton Aycliffe and in Italy come from Japan. I believe Hitachi are considering building a friction stir-welding plant in Italy but I don't think they have made a decision yet.

There have been regular cancellations/part cancellations as a result of set failures from day one. That's before you get on to 5 vice 10 short forms, sets blocking the flyover at Reading for 20mins, sets running with an engine out etc etc etc

GWR are just as bad: HST short forms, regular unit shortages and staff shortages.

The whole operation is an utter farce currently. Thing is, it was all utterly predictable and management is too clueless and inept to see it.

And during the same period there have also been cancellations and part-cancellations of services all over the country, operated by all sorts of rolling stock and lots of different companies. HSTs running with coaches missing, engines out, blah, blah, blah. Trains develop faults. So your point is what exactly?

If there had been mass IET cancellations, day after day, for the past couple of months, then use of words like shambolic might be accurate - or do you actually have a detailed, service by service, list of mass cancellations since the 16th of October that you would care to share with the world to prove you aren't just having a rant? Presumably had this forum existed in the late 1970s you would have been on here lashing out about dodgy HST reliability, or perhaps not, considering your username.