GWR Class 800

[Clansman]

This has probably been raised but I'm a tad too lazy to browse through the thread looking for the answer - forgive me

Will Virgin use Yellow front ends on their units

 

[Harbornite]

Will Virgin use Yellow front ends on their units

Hasn't been confirmed either way.

 

[FGW_DID]

800002 & 800004 have been out and about. Running together as:

5X16 North Pole Depot - Bristol TM
5X17 Bristol TM - North Pole Depot

 

[WatcherZero]

ORR has now approved Hitachi's in cab ERTMS signalling implementation.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

ORR has now approved Hitachi's in cab ERTMS signalling implementation.

So, would that work on the Cambrian then?

 

[Domh245]

So, would that work on the Cambrian then?

IIRC ERTMS is specified so that any installation will work with the others, so it *should* work.

 

[Harbornite]

IIRC ERTMS is specified so that any installation will work with the others, so it *should* work.

Perhaps Virgin or the next west coast franchisee could get some for services to Aberywtwyth...


I'll get my coat.

 

[class26]

ORR has now approved Hitachi's in cab ERTMS signalling implementation.

and is this a step towards enabling 140 mph operation ?

 

[WatcherZero]

Means if the line supported it the rolling stock could operate it (though are only being certified for 125mph speeds so would need 140mph recertification too)

 

[class26]

Means if the line supported it the rolling stock could operate it (though are only being certified for 125mph speeds so would need 140mph recertification too)

Apparently certain sections of the ECML south of Doncaster (plus the racetrack between York and Darlington) are suitable for 140 mph subject to level crossings being removed. Also wondered what had happened to the group announced by R Branson looking into enabling the Azumas (sorry 800`s) to run at 140- mph. Its been very quiet since the announcement.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Means if the line supported it the rolling stock could operate it (though are only being certified for 125mph speeds so would need 140mph recertification too)

Presumably this is from testing on the Hertford Loop test track, using the class 313 test train fitted with ETCS kit from different vendors.
And by "Hitachi" I suppose we mean what was "Ansaldo STS", which was the supplier for the Cambrian and now part of Hitachi.
I'm not sure what, if anything, is fitted to class 800s.

 

[The Ham]

ORR has now approved Hitachi's in cab ERTMS signalling implementation.

News story can be found here:
http://www.railwaygazette.com/news/...achi-etcs-approved-for-passenger-service.html

Rail safety regulator ORR has approved Hitachi Rail Europe’s onboard ETCS equipment for use in passenger service, the company announced on September 7.

The formal Authorisation to Place in Service was issued following the successful completion of trials on the Cambrian line, which runs from Shrewsbury to Aberystwyth and Pwllheli. Hitachi onboard ETCS equipment had been fitted to a Class 37 diesel locomotive in 2013 for a series of trials which confirmed that it could operate successfully with the lineside ETCS supplied by Ansaldo STS, now also part of Hitachi Rail Europe.

Hitachi says it is the first train manufacturer in the UK to have its ETCS onboard equipment authorised by the rail regulator for use on passenger trains. Describing approval as ‘a big step forward for digital innovation on the UK rail network’, Project Director Andy Rogers added that 'Hitachi is hugely proud to be the first to achieve this milestone, which is a testament to the hard work of our testing and signalling teams. Our thanks go to Network Rail for its role in achieving this milestone and we look forward to working with them to implement ETCS across the network.’

The Hitachi onboard ETCS equipment is to be fitted to more than 160 trains that the company is building. The first of the Class 800/801 trainsets being supplied as part of the Intercity Express Programme are due to enter passenger service on the Great Western Main Line next year. One of the pre-series IEP sets now undertaking test running is expected to begin trials at Network Rail’s ERTMS National Integration Facility near Hertford within the next few weeks.

 

[WatcherZero]

Bits of ECML have been talked about for upping to 140mph, also a new high speed avoiding line in to the centre of Newcastle looks a likely project in the mid term.

 

[class26]

Bits of ECML have been talked about for upping to 140mph, also a new high speed avoiding line in to the centre of Newcastle looks a likely project in the mid term.

I would have thought a Morpeth by pass at 140 mph would save a reasonable amount of time also

 

[asylumxl]

I would have thought a Morpeth by pass at 140 mph would save a reasonable amount of time also

I second that.

 

[NotATrainspott]

Bits of ECML have been talked about for upping to 140mph, also a new high speed avoiding line in to the centre of Newcastle looks a likely project in the mid term.

I would have thought a Morpeth by pass at 140 mph would save a reasonable amount of time also

Bypassing Durham will benefit more people than bypassing Morpeth, so it's far more likely to happen. The only people who benefit from Morpeth alone are Scotland-Newcastle passengers, for whom the journey time saving would be relatively inconsequential. A Durham bypass would speed up times to Newcastle from across England as well as Scotland to Yorkshire journeys. On top of that, it would allow segregation of fast and slow services between Darlington and Newcastle, increasing capacity and reducing journey times further.

 

[transmanche]

Bits of ECML have been talked about for upping to 140mph, also a new high speed avoiding line in to the centre of Newcastle looks a likely project in the mid term.

That would be hideously expensive to build and I don't know if it would even be of much use - how many trains would the TOCs want to bypass Newcastle?

I would have thought a Morpeth by pass at 140 mph would save a reasonable amount of time also

Indeed and there's plenty of open country to the south and east of Morpeth which would make smoothing out that curve fairly straightforward.

 

[WatcherZero]

That would be hideously expensive to build and I don't know if it would even be of much use - how many trains would the TOCs want to bypass Newcastle?

Indeed and there's plenty of open country to the south and east of Morpeth which would make smoothing out that curve fairly straightforward.

No, no. Not avoiding Newcastle. Avoiding the local stations on the line in to Newcastle.

Its believed the local lines and junctions produce a lot of delays and a fresh line which just stopped in the city centre with a much higher speed limit and was segregated from local passenger/goods traffic would produce a lot of time savings.

 

[Noddy]

Surely any new sections of ECML north of York should be developed on the basis of future linking up to HS2/3 (much as the French tend to build their railways). Ie not just limited to 140mph but more like 300-400kph. After after all we'll have trains cable of these speed running on the northern section of the ECML by the time any such by-pass is likely to be built.

 

[jopsuk]

if you had fast lines avoiding stations north and south of Newcastle it would also allow a more intensive local service

 

[IanXC]

Can I remind members this thread is entitled "Class 800", can we please stay on topic and create another thread should new lines in the Newcastle area warrant further discussion. Thanks

 

[jimm]

Article from Rail Technology Magazine, talking about progress on testing of the 800s and other aspects of the project.

Also gives an update on manufacturing schedules, with the AT300 assembly work in Italy starting in spring next year and the first GWR set expected in the UK in the summer for testing. Work on TPE's AT300s will start at Newton Aycliffe in summer 2018.

Unleashing the potential of the class 800s

Andy Rogers, projects director at Hitachi Rail Europe, talks to RTM’s David Stevenson after two of the company’s Class 800 InterCity Express Trains made test runs on the recently electrified Reading to Didcot section of the GWML.

Back in late June, the first of Great Western Railway’s new fleet of Class 800 IEP trains, named the ‘Green Machine’, made a special trip from Reading to London Paddington to mark 175 years since the opening of the Great Western Main Line (GWML).

Since that test run, Network Rail has used two of the bi-mode trains – T1 and T2 coupled together – under electric traction to carry out tests runs on the infrastructure owner’s recently electrified GWML section between Reading and Didcot

http://www.railtechnologymagazine.c...s-/unleashing-the-potential-of-the-class-800s

 

[samuelmorris]

Apologies if I've missed it, was there anything more specific than '2017' for the anticipated 800 entry to service on GWR? Given that it's barely over 3 months until it becomes 2017, I'd have expected something like 'Autumn' or 'Q4' as an estimate.

 

[jimm]

Use of Class 800s in passenger service should start next summer. July was the target date mentioned when the Class 800 launch event took place at Paddington at the end of June.

http://www.railmagazine.com/news/ne...uns-first-bi-mode-iep-class-800-to-paddington

I believe the initial plan is to introduce them in batches of four, giving a pair of 2x5-car Class 800 formations to each replace an HST.

 

[samuelmorris]

Ah that's better than I thought then. I assume the reclassification of 801s to 800/3 won't lead to the 9-car units being introduced any sooner.

 

[TheKnightWho]

Use of Class 800s in passenger service should start next summer. July was the target date mentioned when the Class 800 launch event took place at Paddington at the end of June.

http://www.railmagazine.com/news/ne...uns-first-bi-mode-iep-class-800-to-paddington

I believe the initial plan is to introduce them in batches of four, giving a pair of 2x5-car Class 800 formations to each replace an HST.

Any idea when we'll see them in the Oxford area? I would have thought they'd want to prioritise routes where pairs of 5-cars would be particularly useful, with one continuing on for the Cotswold line.

 

[swt_passenger]

There is a graph in the direct award franchise stakeholder brief showing fleet increases and decreases over time, and it suggests that the first stock to be displaced once the first 6 bi-modes are available is the 180s. They are Grand Central's trains from December, but subleased for a few months.

Perhaps therefore the first bi-modes will be seen on routes operated by 180s, unless they are temporarily replaced by something else, such as Turbos or HSTs.

 

[jimm]

Ah that's better than I thought then. I assume the reclassification of 801s to 800/3 won't lead to the 9-car units being introduced any sooner.

No, won't make a difference to the order things will come off the production lines, but I don't know when the first GWR nine-car set is due for delivery.

Any idea when we'll see them in the Oxford area? I would have thought they'd want to prioritise routes where pairs of 5-cars would be particularly useful, with one continuing on for the Cotswold line.

Maybe towards the end of next year, as GWR is due to hand over its 180s to Grand Central in December 2017.

Not sure how much splitting and joining there will be, as almost all of the current weekday services to/from the Cotswold Line don't involve that anyway, being HSTs or 180s.

And the December 2017 timetable is an interim one until the major GWR network timetable overhaul in December 2018 when pretty much all the 800s and 802s will be available - with the possible exception of the most recent order for seven extra nine-car 802s.

It may also be the case that a 320-seat 800 is deemed to have enough seating capacity to work on its own between Oxford and Paddington on weekend services where a single Class 166 with 250 seats is not seen as sufficient at the moment, which results in a number of Turbo-worked services splitting and joining at Oxford.
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There is a graph in the direct award franchise stakeholder brief showing fleet increases and decreases over time, and it suggests that the first stock to be displaced once the first 6 bi-modes are available is the 180s. They are Grand Central's trains from December, but subleased for a few months.

Perhaps therefore the first bi-modes will be seen on routes operated by 180s, unless they are temporarily replaced by something else, such as Turbos or HSTs.

I can assure you I have heard GWR managers say that 800s will be seen first on Bristol and South Wales services.

No wonder, given these routes are the key money-spinners for the company - but presumably also on the basis that in the first weeks of operation there will be a Hitachi depot nearby in case of technical issues, which there wouldn't be should a set sit down and die at Worcester.

While I am sure Grand Central would love to get their hands on the 180s sooner rather than later, Scotrail will also want to start getting ex-GWR HSTs into the workshops for overhaul as soon as they can, in order to hit their June 2018 introduction date

 

[Clarence Yard]

The original plan for the 800 sets on GWR was to replace the 180 sets first and then move onto 2 X 5 car workings, running just about everywhere, in existing HST diagrams modified to be TARA maintenance window friendly.

The lack of suitable infrastructure for 10 cars on the North and South Cots to at least late 2018 together with the bi-modalisation of the 9 cars has necessitated a swap round, which actually makes the cascade of IEP units onto South Wales services a lot more logical and easier.

Previously the electric sets were an absolutely pig to diagram into the existing timetable (which had to remain as is) and quite a few were going to be parked up until Swansea came on stream in May 2018. Now the 10 cars get most of the Bristol/Swansea circuits up to Dec 2018 which works really well while the 9 cars will go everywhere. The amount of 5 car cl.800 operation at Pad up to Dec 2018 will be fairly minimal, being the ex cl.180 work.

There are changes to unit availability, changes to the fuel tanks on all the cl.800 fleet and changes to the maintenance downtime requirements as part of this bi-modalisation and the first and last has been taken into account in the number of extra 802 sets that were ordered by GWR so that GWR weren't left short.

The start date for entering service of all the Agility sets are also being altered due to contractual issues but I am not able to discuss that here.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Previously the electric sets were an absolutely pig to diagram into the existing timetable (which had to remain as is) and quite a few were going to be parked up until Swansea came on stream in May 2018.

Electric to Swansea by May 2018?
I don't think that is feasible.