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GWR Class 800

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RobShipway

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I think the reference to a shortened train means 800101, which was delivered from Japan in May as a five-car set, with the other four coaches to bring it up to its full nine-car formation coming on another ship in August.

Correct, it was the reference that I was making and is no different to the APT-E or HST test trains in their day.

Difference here is that the IEP set will go into being used by the public eventually either as 5 or 9 car train.
 
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D365

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Correct, it was the reference that I was making and is no different to the APT-E or HST test trains in their day.

Difference here is that the IEP set will go into being used by the public eventually either as 5 or 9 car train.

Do also bear in mind the comment about power-to-weight made by NotATrainspott, seeing as IEP uses distributed traction. This being a key difference to BRE-era InterCity rolling stock.
 
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NotATrainspott

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BUT given they have distributed power then the power to weight ratio running as a diesel would be largely the same. However whilst running on electric from the overhead they would have a favourable power to weight ratio if they were a 9-car reduced to 5-car. That's assuming the electric traction bit is all in the end cars !.

The driving vehicles are unpowered but carry the pantograph and transformer. All traction motors are in the intermediate vehicles, including any diesel engines fitted. A 5 car IEP consists of three powered vehicles and two unpowered vehicles all the longer consists have a similar 60:40 ratio. A 9 car set has 4 unpowered vehicles (2 driving vehicles and 2 intermediate trailers) and 5 powered vehicles, so a 56:44 ratio. As a consequence, it seems to be that the only way of increasing the power/weight ratio is to have a longer train with only powered intermediate vehicles getting their electric power from both driving vehicles at once.
 

Philip Phlopp

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Correct, it was the reference that I was making and is no different to the APT-E or HST test trains in their day.

Difference here is that the IEP set will go into being used by the public eventually either as 5 or 9 car train.

It's completely different to the testing on APT-E, APT-P and HST, where there was no distributed drive, so changing the number of unpowered trailers gave different power to weight ratios and brake forces.

IEP will run as 5 or 9 car trains, it doesn't matter at all whether the train is a 9 car train converted into a 5 car set by the removal of intermediate vehicles, or whether it's a 5 car unit delivered as a 5 car unit, there's nothing on the intermediate vehicles which will prevent their rapid removal and the conversion of the train from 9 cars down to 5 cars.

This is something that has been designed from the outset, it's why the pantographs and transformers are where they are - on the driving vehicles, and it's why Hitachi can deliver a 5 car unit, do testing, then extend it up to 9 car units (get used to it, it'll be happening a lot in the next few years).

It also makes IEP at least as flexible as an HST, if not more so, because in the event of a Neville Hill like shunting accident involving a central car (or cars), a 9 car unit can be reduced in length to 5 cars (or 6 cars, or 7 cars, or 8 cars) depending on which cars are damaged, and how many engined vehicles remain available.

The same is true in the event of a unit suffering damage to one driving car, perhaps a level crossing incident, a 9 car unit can be split with the 7 central cars (5 of which have engines) able to extend 2x5 car units into a 9 car and an 8 car unit, should that be necessary to cover diagrams and provide capacity over a lengthy period.
 

jayiscupid

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Because the people in charge haven't got a clue, when I worked for SWT we used to attach/detach the Alton/Basingstoke at Woking or the Portsmouth/Bournemouth at Eastleigh in about 3 minutes, it is easily done as long as you know what you are doing.

Now I work for FGW oops I mean gWr and we also attach/detach in 3 minutes, but propose the idea anywhere else and 'they' have a meltdown. :roll:

If you want to see it done really well head to Hamburg in Germany. The S-Bahn to the airport runs every 10 mins and each 6 car train splits at Hamburg-Ohlsdorf. The front 3 go to the airport and the rear three head to Poppenbüttel. The whole operation takes 15-20 seconds and on the return the front section arrives 1 minute before the rear and are connected and depart within 30 seconds.
It's pretty impressive to watch how efficiently it's all done. Every 10 minutes all day, every day.
gWr could learn a lot!
 
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D365

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It's pretty impressive to watch how efficiently it's all done. Every 10 minutes all day, every day.

Sound very like the S1 in Munich: split/join takes place at Neufahrn, with the rear unit travelling to Munich Airport and the front unit(s) to Freising.
 
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.....on the return the front section arrives 1 minute before the rear and are connected and depart within 30 mins.
It's pretty impressive to watch how efficiently it's all done. Every 10 minutes all day, every day.

Doesn't that result in awful congestion as more trains pile in, while the previous ones are waiting to depart?
By the time the 30 minutes is up, 3 other trains will have arrived.
Then the snowball effect........?

;):lol::lol::lol:



 

JaJaWa

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Surely airport services should not be splitting (unless it's very clearly announced in multiple languages)
 

D365

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Doesn't that result in awful congestion as more trains pile in, while the previous ones are waiting to depart?
By the time the 30 minutes is up, 3 other trains will have arrived.
Then the snowball effect........?

Surely airport services should not be splitting (unless it's very clearly announced in multiple languages)

I don't know about Hamburg, but in Munich it seems to work well. The station at which S1 trains split/join (travelling to/from Freising and Munich Airport), Neufahrn, is on the mainline to Moosburg, and only uses three platforms.
 

jayiscupid

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Eeek! meant to write seconds!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Doesn't that result in awful congestion as more trains pile in, while the previous ones are waiting to depart?
By the time the 30 minutes is up, 3 other trains will have arrived.
Then the snowball effect........?

;):lol::lol::lol:




Lol - meant to write seconds not minutes!
 
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RAGNARØKR

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Sound very like the S1 in Munich: split/join takes place at Neufahrn, with the rear unit travelling to Munich Airport and the front unit(s) to Freising.
Helsingborg (Sweden), Kolding (Denmanrk), Bournemouth (1968 to 1988), Haywards Heath(twice an hour) , Rickmansworth LT (until 1960)
5zCH2T
. Bournemouth was an electric to diesel changeover, Rickmansworth LT an electric locomotive to steam locomotive change which took four minutes. There were spurs at each end of the station for the locomotive to pull forward out of the way. The locomotive would move from one end of the station to the other shortly before its train was due to arrive, so there was a line occupation of about 8 minutes for the whole operation, which took place twice an hour.

The Bournemouth operation was more efficient as the arriving train from Weymouth was propelled by the class 37 diesel at the rear and attached to the REP unit waiting in the platform.
 
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SpacePhoenix

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Splitting/joining doesn't seem to take very long on any Desiro units. Back when Weymouth-Waterloo was run with piggies I don't think it took long for the Weymouth-Waterloo portion to attach to the unit from the carriage sidings. I think it came in and attached straight away, then the doors were released
 

ac6000cw

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RAGNARØKR;2351525 said:
The Bournemouth operation was more efficient as the arriving train from Weymouth was propelled by the class 37 diesel at the rear and attached to the REP unit waiting in the platform.

They were modified class 33 (with SR EMU-compatible high level jumpers and brake pipes, plus 'Buckeye' auto couplers).
 

The Ham

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Splitting/joining doesn't seem to take very long on any Desiro units.

I've seen it done so that it meant that the late running train wasn't in the platform for much longer than if it hadn't been splitting, although in the timetable the train stops for a few minutes to allow it.
 
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Is it possible to have an update please.

How many units have now been delivered?
Is it still the first two, or have any others arrived yet?

I'm quite amazed at the lack of recent photos and videos of the 800's available online.
They've been here for quite some time now and supposedly have been out regularly on the ECML carrying out tests, albeit mostly in the dark.
As such, I'm surprised that there haven't been more images and videos posted by eager enthusiasts.


 

WatcherZero

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3 five car units have arrived, one extended to nine car after delivery. Five empty bodyshells for production series have also arrived.
 

The Ham

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I'm quite amazed at the lack of recent photos and videos of the 800's available online.
They've been here for quite some time now and supposedly have been out regularly on the ECML carrying out tests, albeit mostly in the dark.
As such, I'm surprised that there haven't been more images and videos posted by eager enthusiasts.

I would suggest that given that the 800's are replacing the majority of HST's in England (MU's replacing Locos) and the reaction from many on here about them, I'm not surprised that enthusiasts aren't keen to go get images of the 800's.
 

najaB

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I would suggest that given that the 800's are replacing the majority of HST's in England (MU's replacing Locos) and the reaction from many on here about them, I'm not surprised that enthusiasts aren't keen to go get images of the 800's.
I think it's more that they haven't been out in the daylight that often.
 

RobShipway

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Since the electrification of the GWML is running a year to 2 years late what is the possibility that the first class 801 will run on the ECML first and more class 800's will be ordered for the GWML than class 801's?
 

Firesprite

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In the early hours of All hallows eve, While waiting for the 1st train to Leeds. Passing through platform 5 was a SET unit which stopped for a moment. Noted that one of the blinds was partly up. Was able to take a quick shot of the seating, I have seen bus seats with more padding.

SET_seating_standard_class.jpg
 

JaJaWa

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In the early hours of All hallows eve, While waiting for the 1st train to Leeds. Passing through platform 5 was a SET unit which stopped for a moment. Noted that one of the blinds was partly up. Was able to take a quick shot of the seating, I have seen bus seats with more padding.

SET_seating_standard_class.jpg

Do you have a larger version of the image?
 

route:oxford

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In the early hours of All hallows eve, While waiting for the 1st train to Leeds. Passing through platform 5 was a SET unit which stopped for a moment. Noted that one of the blinds was partly up. Was able to take a quick shot of the seating, I have seen bus seats with more padding.

It's got more padding than my office chair - and I sit on it for over 7 hours a day comfortably.

Indeed, in my last office, the office chairs were made of a highly supportive mesh and were considerably adjustable and comfortable.
 

hassaanhc

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In the early hours of All hallows eve, While waiting for the 1st train to Leeds. Passing through platform 5 was a SET unit which stopped for a moment. Noted that one of the blinds was partly up. Was able to take a quick shot of the seating, I have seen bus seats with more padding.

On the other hand I've seen bus seats with less padding :D.

Seating is something everyone has their own preferences for, so it will be hard to reach consensus. These days ergonomics and posture is important. Personally I prefer something with a rock hard backrest as that is more supportive for my back, which is why I do try and see if I can avoid a 458 with their very soggy seats, with the Class 220/221/390 seats being like that too.
 

jimm

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The amount of padding and the profile of the seating doesn't look that much different to the standard class seats in GWR's HSTs, or the 180s come to that, both of which I find perfectly comfortable.

I'm more bothered by the unremitting greyness of the interior - even the cream panelling that there was around the windows in the studio mock-up of the IEP interior now seems to have gone grey as well.
 

fgwrich

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Grey Grey and more Grey appears to be the new in thing unfortunately. Not pleased to see those horribly cheap "fake metal" silver panels in there either - some of them rattle in the 395, and it just makes the interior quality finish feel cheap. I'd rather keep the same seats as FGWs HSTs too, I can just about relax in those, these however will be giving the ironing board 387s a run for their money.
 

RAGNARØKR

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On the other hand I've seen bus seats with less padding :D.

Seating is something everyone has their own preferences for, so it will be hard to reach consensus. These days ergonomics and posture is important. Personally I prefer something with a rock hard backrest as that is more supportive for my back, which is why I do try and see if I can avoid a 458 with their very soggy seats, with the Class 220/221/390 seats being like that too.
Padding, or absence of it, does not correlate with comfort.

What counts are the profile and other parameters of the seat. Lumbar support is always important. To judge from the photograph, this seems to be adequate.

The most comfortable train seat I have ever sat in is in the second class compartment of the North London Railway coach built in 1866, running on the Isle of Wight steam railway. The seat back is shaped like half a pear.
 

47802

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RAGNARØKR;2365977 said:
Padding, or absence of it, does not correlate with comfort.

What counts are the profile and other parameters of the seat. Lumbar support is always important. To judge from the photograph, this seems to be adequate.

The most comfortable train seat I have ever sat in is in the second class compartment of the North London Railway coach built in 1866, running on the Isle of Wight steam railway. The seat back is shaped like half a pear.

Not sure I agree with that one, unfortunately this seem to be following the trend for hard seats with very little padding don't look a great deal better than the ironing boards in the 387's and 700's, personally I don't find harder type seats very comfortable, I know some people say that seats like these are better for posture, but you can stuff posture as far as I'm concerned.
 
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