GWR Class 800

[Muzer]

"Removal of Panini Grill"


NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

 

[po8crg]

I suspect they don't want to go overboard with USB-B sockets when USB-C is out now. Since the new ports are 20V 5A (instead of 5V 1.8A), they can't just switch out the ports in the fascia either; they'd need to completely rewire.

 

[D365]

I suspect they don't want to go overboard with USB-B sockets when USB-C is out now. Since the new ports are 20V 5A (instead of 5V 1.8A), they can't just switch out the ports in the fascia either; they'd need to completely rewire.

That was exactly my concern, but I suppose it may depend on the manufacturer uptake of USB 3.1 - it seems to be quite the step-change.

 

[jon0844]

I expect people will have to use a USB-A to USB-C lead for some time, given how many USB ports there are in existence, and all those PSUs people already have.

At some point we can see USB-C ports introduced. I think that's a fair way off yet, even though in 2016 you can expect to see most new mobile phones and tablets coming with it.

What's important now is that the ports can provide the higher levels of power needed, and not something crappy like 5V 1A, which means many smartphones and most tablets won't get a sizeable battery charge on many journeys. In some cases, the power will be less than the consumption and the battery will still drain, just slower.

 

[Mikey C]

"Removal of Panini Grill"


NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

And
Removal of hot milk steamer

I guess that means no cappuccinos or lattes on board!

 

[Peter Sarf]

Regarding USB - I am not completely sure but unless the whole coach is provided with a bus at the relevant voltage(s) will that mean a transformer inside/near each 3-pin socket so potentially more waste of power with those transformers sitting there drawing a bit of power even if no USB cable is plugged in.

I have noticed that some phones etc do not charge very well from the 3-pin sockets in trains. This makes me wonder how near to 240V they really are. Goodness knows what sort of power surges might be going on as well. Is there a specification for Voltage and fluctuations in railway carriages. There are minimum standards for domestic power supplies (to houses) afaik.

 

[jon0844]

You could presumably have one transformer for a group of USB ports, or a physical button that powers your socket for, say, one or two hours before cutting out again.

I've got some of these switches at home that effectively cuts all power, and is particularly useful for a heater in our garage. One tap for 1, 3 or 6 hours - then off completely.

 

[RobShipway]

And
Removal of hot milk steamer

I guess that means no cappuccinos or lattes on board!

What!!! No Panini Grill or Cappuccino!!! Until that point I was looking forward to riding on a class 800 when they have been introduced to service. Oh well, just have to get my Cappuccino and Panini at Reading station before I board the train....

 

[Emblematic]

Regarding USB - I am not completely sure but unless the whole coach is provided with a bus at the relevant voltage(s) will that mean a transformer inside/near each 3-pin socket so potentially more waste of power with those transformers sitting there drawing a bit of power even if no USB cable is plugged in.

I have noticed that some phones etc do not charge very well from the 3-pin sockets in trains. This makes me wonder how near to 240V they really are. Goodness knows what sort of power surges might be going on as well. Is there a specification for Voltage and fluctuations in railway carriages. There are minimum standards for domestic power supplies (to houses) afaik.

You could presumably have one transformer for a group of USB ports, or a physical button that powers your socket for, say, one or two hours before cutting out again.

I've got some of these switches at home that effectively cuts all power, and is particularly useful for a heater in our garage. One tap for 1, 3 or 6 hours - then off completely.

You would just arrange it so there was a 18VDC bus for the whole carriage (or even train) then just have each USB outlet fitted with the same USB power conversion & control circuit that almost every laptop has. Like the laptop, it draw virtually no current when there is nothing connected. It would inherently be more stable and reliable than a common 240v supply.
The only charger I have carried for several years is for my laptop. Everything else can be charged from that (even if powered off and unplugged) - phone, Ereader, electric toothbrush, all charge from USB.
USB-C will eventually take over, but USB-A power is being fitted in volume right now, so adapters will be commonplace.

 

[jon0844]

Given people pay big bucks for coffee with loads of milk, it seems rather odd to risk such profit margins.

 

[Emblematic]

As they are removing two fixed items but having seven additional power sockets fitted, perhaps they just want the flexibility to provide their own catering equipment - maybe an automated coffee-from-bean machine in place of the steamer.

 

[jon0844]

As they are removing two fixed items but having seven additional power sockets fitted, perhaps they just want the flexibility to provide their own catering equipment - maybe an automated coffee-from-bean machine in place of the steamer.

Hopefully.

I'm actually surprised we haven't had a TOC try the idea of allowing the likes of Starbucks, Caffe Nero, Costa etc to run a service on a train - selling the same things people are very happy to spend their money on at stations, high-streets and shopping centres all over the UK (and abroad).

 

[Via Bank]

It would be incredibly short-sighted if it wasn't USB-C being specified. By the time these units first enter revenue service, USB-A will be a legacy connector on basically all new devices. And by the time they're all in, I would be astonished if many new consumer devices were still being manufactured with USB-A/mini-USB/micro-USB ports.

I smell echoes of the 'entertainment' system on the Pendolinos here...

 

[transmanche]

I'm actually surprised we haven't had a TOC try the idea of allowing the likes of Starbucks, Caffe Nero, Costa etc to run a service on a train - selling the same things people are very happy to spend their money on at stations, high-streets and shopping centres all over the UK (and abroad).

East Coast used to sell Starbucks coffee in the Café Bar but dropped them when it was changed to the Food Bar.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Hopefully.

I'm actually surprised we haven't had a TOC try the idea of allowing the likes of Starbucks, Caffe Nero, Costa etc to run a service on a train - selling the same things people are very happy to spend their money on at stations, high-streets and shopping centres all over the UK (and abroad).

East Coast used to sell Starbucks coffee in the Café Bar but dropped them when it was changed to the Food Bar.

The 'Brighton Express' 319s had those coffee bar/lounge areas which were run by the Puccino's chain (which are/were widespread in the London area but unheard of up North).

 

[Peter Mugridge]

I'm actually surprised we haven't had a TOC try the idea of allowing the likes of Starbucks, Caffe Nero, Costa etc to run a service on a train - selling the same things people are very happy to spend their money on at stations, high-streets and shopping centres all over the UK (and abroad).

What would really be needed in this vein would be for the TOCs to sub-franchise the catering completely so they get a fixed income while the bidding catering companies carry all the risk. That's the only way now that we could get as more widesoread meal provision back on trains.

 

[Martin222002]

What!!! No Panini Grill or Cappuccino!!! Until that point I was looking forward to riding on a class 800 when they have been introduced to service. Oh well, just have to get my Cappuccino and Panini at Reading station before I board the train....

You shoulsn't have to worry about this when travelling from Reading as these changes are only for the 800s and 801s that VTEC are getting.

Having pondered this I wonder whether they have been removed from the kitchen as they will now be located in the buffet which be present on the VTEC 800s and 801s....

 

[D6975]

I'm sure I've seen Starbucks coffee being sold from a trolley on a train somewhere.
Was it on a 444?
I definitely saw an ice cream vendor on a 444 last year, with a tray around their neck like you used to get at cinemas and theatres.

 

[jon0844]

Plenty of places sell Costa Coffee or Starbucks coffee, even the old shop outside Hatfield that simply bought Costa branded mugs and presumably beans supplied by said company (Whitbread). You can buy Starbucks coffee in Tesco, just like Nandos peri peri sauce etc.

But what I think would work better is a properly branded on board cafe, with staff wearing uniforms and selling the same products as on the high street (or a subset). Given the large profit margins, I wouldn't even think it wise to inflate prices further - as you'd be after turnover, not a nice profit on the one coffee you'd sell at £3.50 a cup (sadly, what we'd probably end up with).

I can't speak for 10 or 20 years from now, but at the moment people are spending a good deal of their disposable income on coffees and cakes/biscuits, and sitting on an Intercity train having a fresh coffee and snack seems like something a lot of people would do - more so than buying a generic coffee from a nondescript buffet shop. All psychological of course, as there's nothing to say one is better quality than the other.

As someone has said, you could at least try by outsourcing the running to a company who takes all the risk. And the contract would require a provision on all trains, so the company would have to budget for the profitable services and how to provide a service on the less profitable/busy ones.

 

[Peter Sarf]

Plenty of places sell Costa Coffee or Starbucks coffee, even the old shop outside Hatfield that simply bought Costa branded mugs and presumably beans supplied by said company (Whitbread). You can buy Starbucks coffee in Tesco, just like Nandos peri peri sauce etc.

But what I think would work better is a properly branded on board cafe, with staff wearing uniforms and selling the same products as on the high street (or a subset). Given the large profit margins, I wouldn't even think it wise to inflate prices further - as you'd be after turnover, not a nice profit on the one coffee you'd sell at £3.50 a cup (sadly, what we'd probably end up with).

I can't speak for 10 or 20 years from now, but at the moment people are spending a good deal of their disposable income on coffees and cakes/biscuits, and sitting on an Intercity train having a fresh coffee and snack seems like something a lot of people would do - more so than buying a generic coffee from a nondescript buffet shop. All psychological of course, as there's nothing to say one is better quality than the other.

As someone has said, you could at least try by outsourcing the running to a company who takes all the risk. And the contract would require a provision on all trains, so the company would have to budget for the profitable services and how to provide a service on the less profitable/busy ones.

I agree. It is amazing what people will spend out on even if they have very little money. Costa and Starbucks are examples. I think the outlets are only franchises so a lot of the price goes back to the parent company. That means the actual outlet is not that profitable - they have to buy the raw materials from the parent. That might make the coffees unprofitable.

As for USB. I see examples of people having problems with their USB device in computers and most times its down to a USB2 device demanding more power than the USB1 outlet/PC can provide. So its very worrying if the railways are not be fitting the latest version of USB in a vehicle that will be around for decades longer than the average life of a USB standard. I am assuming the latest USB SUPPLY version is backwards compatible.

 

[jon0844]

You have different wiring for charging don't you? On a PC it's 500mA I think (more for USB 3) but from a PSU it can be far higher, and higher voltage too (but then you need some intelligence in the supply to negotiate with the device it's powering).

I am not sure we'll get that for a bit, but a 2-2.5A 5V supply should be ample for most needs.

 

[D365]

I am not sure we'll get that for a bit, but a 2-2.5A 5V supply should be ample for most needs.

That'd be plenty to power my Raspberry Pi on the train!
Not that I'm suggesting it though :P

 

[asylumxl]

That'd be plenty to power my Raspberry Pi on the train!

Not that I'm suggesting it though :P

Now you just need a USB powered monitor and you're set to go!

 

[LexyBoy]

How do USB outlets cope with having gum/paper/gunge stuffed into them? Could that be the reason for only providing them in 1st?

I don't bother buying hot drinks on trains anymore unless gasping. The final straw was getting "tea" from the buffet on a FGW service only to find I'd been given a cup of warm water and a teabag, still unopened. Anyone who considers that acceptable should be subject to immediate deportation to somewhere with no appreciation of God's own Beverage, like France.

I can't be the only one - from the frequency of announcements advertising the availability of beers, lagers, ciders, wines and spirits on the 0742 there must be many others who know there's nothing else drinkable.

 

[Doctor Fegg]

TBH I feel the same about soft drinks. Usually a can/bottle of Coke from the trolley will be lukewarm at best. Scrap the buffet and put in a vending machine and I'd be happy!

 

[Retorus]

You shoulsn't have to worry about this when travelling from Reading as these changes are only for the 800s and 801s that VTEC are getting.

Having pondered this I wonder whether they have been removed from the kitchen as they will now be located in the buffet which be present on the VTEC 800s and 801s....

You might need to retune your sarcasm detector.

 

[WelshBluebird]

Regarding places like Costa etc, there is another two factors that come into it.

1 - Its can be easier to find a Costa / Starbucks (or insert any other big brand) than it is to find a cheaper local alternative. "

2 - There is the feeling of "you know what you are getting" with brands you are familiar with. It may not actually be the case, but you defiantly do get that feeling. Which if you are in a new place can be very powerful as opposed to thinking "I'll go into this local place that I have never heard of before and I don't know what it is like".

Neither of which really apply for rail travel though.

And regarding USB, is there any reason why USB A and USB C cannot be catered for? The problem with providing USB C is that most people, even when these new trains are introduced, will probably not have USB C devices. And even then you are able to get USB A to USB cables so.

 

[jon0844]

I would imagine keeping USB A ports for some time, and people using the relevant cable they need.

One day perhaps everything will switch to USB-C, once everyone is having to use an adapter and could simply have a USB-C to USB-C lead, but I think that will be a fair few years yet.

Even Apple hasn't stopped using ordinary USB ports just yet.

 

[Haydn1971]

I'm puzzled, why use a USB-C when USB-A is so universal ???

 

[D365]

I'm puzzled, why use a USB-C when USB-A is so universal ???

Seeing as USB-C is more than capable of charging any average laptop and is compact enough to be of use on a phone/tablet/ultrabook with all the benefits of USB 3., I don't see why it won't usurp the -A type.