GWR Bristol Area PAYG Scheme

[Benjwri]

Just over a week ago GWR published a page on their website announcing the Bristol PAYG scheme's launch. Although this page has been puled from the site, it gives some idea of how the scene will actually run. Google managed to cache the page, which is available here, although not very pretty. It seems the fares are as expected, and will be available on all TOCs in the area. Although expected it's a bit disappointing to see it will only be available on the smartcard. The scheme boundaries aren't mentioned, but a very blurry image attached to the page by Google suggests they are as expected, extending to Ashchurch, Patchway, Severn Beach, Worle (?), Freshford and Chippenham.
The post also mentions a launch of late August, although obviously as it has been pulled this may not be the case. Does anyone know why it was pulled, and if August is still the planned start time?

 

[Western Sunset]

Ashchurch seems quite a way out of Bristol, compared to some of the other station boundaries.

 

[Snow1964]

There are a number of stations in that listed area that do not have any ticket gates, or validators

Therefore not sure how this smart card is going to work, unless there is going to be a rapid fitment programme

 

[Benjwri]

There are a number of stations in that listed area that do not have any ticket gates, or validators

Therefore not sure how this smart card is going to work, unless there is going to be a rapid fitment programme

Yeah I thought that, was going to be near Oldfield Park on Thursday and see if there's any sign of anything being installed.

Other thought is on that really blurry map some station dots are not named, and only small dots, and perhaps they aren't covered by the scheme, but that would make this scheme incredibly useless, even for GWR.

 

[plymothian]

PAYG will operate in the Greater Bristol area, bound by Ashchurch (including Gloucester), Patchway, Severn Beach, Weston-super-Mare, Freshford and Chippenham.

Users will have to have a GWR Touch smartcard with ABT (Account based ticketing) product loaded on it, 16-25, 16-17, 26-30, Disabled (for 1 person only), JCP and Senior Railcards can be linked to the account to provide the requisite discount.

The area has been split in to zones (based on the Freedom ABCD ticket) and fares will cap out at the requisite rate ie
Journeys wholy within A - daily £5.50, weekly £26.50
Within A & B or A & C - £11.00 / £49.50
ABC or ABD - £13.00 / £58.50
ABCD - £17.50 / £75.50

Zone A is bound by St Andrews Road, Patchway, Bristol Parkway, Keynsham and Parson Street
Zone B Nailsea and Backwell and Yatton
Zone C Oldfield Park - Chippenham and Freshford, Yate - Ashchurch, and Severn Beach (I'm not sure if SVB is a mistake on the map or not)
Zone D Worle - Weston-super-Mare

PAYG will be compatible with weekly tickets already held on the smartcard and will only charge for journeys outwith the weekly validity (it is implied this will be done automatically and there is no need to tap out and tap back in to start/end a weekly journey).

Incomplete journeys will be charged a maximum fare of £25.00. The system can autocomplete journeys once the user has built up a pattern of journeys, or the user can manage their own journeys online up to Wednesday the week after travel.

Tapping in and out at the same station within 30 minutes will not incur a charge. Users can sign up for automatic Delay Repay or apply in the usual way. Money will be taken from the users bank account the day after travel.

Platform Validators (PVals) have been installed/or are being installed at all stations within the scheme area.

 

[Western Sunset]

Pilning seems to be out of the area then...

 

[Envoy]

Why would they not include Severn Tunnel Junction - being as they are the only operator through the tunnel to the Bristol area? A heck of a lot of commuters/shoppers to Bristol live in this part of Wales.

 

[Busaholic]

Why would they not include Severn Tunnel Junction - being as they are the only operator through the tunnel to the Bristol area? A heck of a lot of commuters/shoppers to Bristol live in this part of Wales.

I think the reason is hidden in the last word - Wales.

 

[Western Sunset]

What I don't understand, is that Gloucester and Cheltenham (to the north) are included, but not places like Trowbridge, Westbury and Frome, to the south.

 

[Snow1964]

What I don't understand, is that Gloucester and Cheltenham (to the north) are included, but not places like Trowbridge, Westbury and Frome, to the south.

Clearly not distance based, but does seem odd it it goes to Chippenham, but not Trowbridge etc.

Not even based on county boundaries if Chippenham & Freshford (both in Wiltshire) are included, so I too am baffled by boundaries.

 

[Western Sunset]

Indeed.
Why up to Ashchurch (over halfway to Birmingham and not "Greater Bristol" by a long stretch) yet not places much closer. If Gloucester and Cheltenham, why not Salisbury and Swindon? And what about Highbridge and Bridgwater? All places served by GWR.

The only thing I can think of is that this is Phase 1, and they'll be a Phase 2 to include other, more appropriate local places, at some point.

And they might as well just close Pilning...

 

[Benjwri]

Clearly not distance based, but does seem odd it it goes to Chippenham, but not Trowbridge etc.

Not even based on county boundaries if Chippenham & Freshford (both in Wiltshire) are included, so I too am baffled by boundaries.

I believe it might be to do with the MetroWest scheme, the boundaries match up pretty well with phases 1a and b of that

If Gloucester and Cheltenham, why not Salisbury and Swindon?

Yeah that is one that puzzles me too, there isn’t a reason to have Gloucester

 

[trentvalley]

Maybe the reason for Cheltenham / Gloucester etc is to attain a greater revenue share from Crosscountry?

 

[The exile]

PAYG will operate in the Greater Bristol area, bound by Ashchurch (including Gloucester), Patchway, Severn Beach, Weston-super-Mare, Freshford and Chippenham.

Users will have to have a GWR Touch smartcard with ABT (Account based ticketing) product loaded on it, 16-25, 16-17, 26-30, Disabled (for 1 person only), JCP and Senior Railcards can be linked to the account to provide the requisite discount.

The area has been split in to zones (based on the Freedom ABCD ticket) and fares will cap out at the requisite rate ie
Journeys wholy within A - daily £5.50, weekly £26.50
Within A & B or A & C - £11.00 / £49.50
ABC or ABD - £13.00 / £58.50
ABCD - £17.50 / £75.50

Zone A is bound by St Andrews Road, Patchway, Bristol Parkway, Keynsham and Parson Street
Zone B Nailsea and Backwell and Yatton
Zone C Oldfield Park - Chippenham and Freshford, Yate - Ashchurch, and Severn Beach (I'm not sure if SVB is a mistake on the map or not)
Zone D Worle - Weston-super-Mare

PAYG will be compatible with weekly tickets already held on the smartcard and will only charge for journeys outwith the weekly validity (it is implied this will be done automatically and there is no need to tap out and tap back in to start/end a weekly journey).

Incomplete journeys will be charged a maximum fare of £25.00. The system can autocomplete journeys once the user has built up a pattern of journeys, or the user can manage their own journeys online up to Wednesday the week after travel.

Tapping in and out at the same station within 30 minutes will not incur a charge. Users can sign up for automatic Delay Repay or apply in the usual way. Money will be taken from the users bank account the day after travel.

Platform Validators (PVals) have been installed/or are being installed at all stations within the scheme area.

Given that the areas and prices are so similar to the Freedom Pass zones (albeit extended) - will this still include bus travel? If not - it's a pretty massive downgrade and disincentive to use it compared with the paper freedom pass.

 

[Revilo]

Clearly not distance based, but does seem odd it it goes to Chippenham, but not Trowbridge etc.

Not even based on county boundaries if Chippenham & Freshford (both in Wiltshire) are included, so I too am baffled by boundaries.

Freshford is (just) in Bath and NE Somerset, but Chippenham is odd, as is Gloucester, both well outside the ex-Avon area.

 

[The exile]

Freshford is (just) in Bath and NE Somerset, but Chippenham is odd, as is Gloucester, both well outside the ex-Avon area.

The question is probably less why those two are both included (there is a not insignificant schools flow from Chippenham to Bath - quite apart from anything else) but why stations to Westbury / Frome aren’t!

 

[patrick.hearn3]

No B & D only version I note, for North Somerset (Nailsea and Backwell and Yatton / Worle - Weston-super-Mare)

It would have been good instead to have had prices for 1, 2, 3 and 4 zones, and boundary stations in both zones (so Parson St A/B, Worle B/D, for example). As it is Parson St to Nailsea and Yatton-Worle are two zone fares for just one stop, whereas Parson St-St Andrews Road is 11 stops and one zone.

 

[Benjwri]

Yatton-Worle are two zone fares for just one stop

Those prices are caps, not fares. The idea is you are charged the same amount as the journey would cost on a normal ticket. Yatton-Worle wouldn't hit the cap anyways.

 

[penguin8967]

What would make even more sense - even though it'll probably never happen - was if this scheme worked on buses as well since First operate most services in the area anyway.

 

[The exile]

What would make even more sense - even though it'll probably never happen - was if this scheme worked on buses as well since First operate most services in the area anyway.

I hold out some hope since their buses have just all been fitted with card readers and a bus “tap and cap” scheme introduced. It would be a very retrograde step if the introduction of such schemes removed the flexibility of the freedom pass.

 

[Benjwri]

PAYG page is back up, basically as expected

 

[Ex-controller]

Looks like a good scheme. ScotRail trialled a similar scheme only on the Cathcart Circle lines in Glasgow back in 2019. Seemed to work well then nothing was heard of it since. Basically when tapping in and out at stations the smart card automatically worked out the appropriate fare for all your travel that day, then doing similar for weekly travel. It meant that you got some unexpected bonus credit back on your account if it transpired that a weekly season ticket cost was the appropriate fare.

Hoping this scheme is successful too.

 

[JonathanH]

Looks like a good scheme.

Is it? It isn't the fares reform that people seem to want. It just maintains much the same structure that already exists but with a different purchasing medium.

 

[Benjwri]

Is it? It isn't the fares reform that people seem to want. It just maintains much the same structure that already exists but with a different purchasing medium.

It simplifies things. Obviously it isn't a total revamp, but that isn't really something GWR on it's own can do. It's a possitive step in the right direction. At the very least it means you have to think less and those who don't know if they will quite use a weekly season ticket can get the best deal either way. It can also combine journeys autmoatically, so Bath to Bristol, then Bristol to Cheltenaham in a day would be charged as Bath to Cheltenham.

I hold out some hope since their buses have just all been fitted with card readers and a bus “tap and cap” scheme introduced. It would be a very retrograde step if the introduction of such schemes removed the flexibility of the freedom pass.

Unfortunately not included initially, but the Zones are the same as the freedom pass, and the FAQ states 'Bus travel is not included at this point in time, but we hope to be able to expand the scheme to include this in the future', which at least isn't a definite no.

 

[Snow1964]

Given that the areas and prices are so similar to the Freedom Pass zones (albeit extended) - will this still include bus travel? If not - it's a pretty massive downgrade and disincentive to use it compared with the paper freedom pass.

Hope to expand it to include bus in the future

Bus travel is not included at this point in time, but we hope to be able to expand the scheme to include this in the future.

Anytime day singles are new

In addition, a new range of Anytime Day Singles will be exclusively available to customers using pay-as-you-go for travel. These are available on most journeys and are generally priced at half the Anytime Day Return fare.

But could pay less, by not using Pay As You Go

Advance Single tickets are not included in the fares mix used for pay-as-you-go travel. In some instances, one-way journeys between Weston-super-Mare/Bristol and Gloucester/Cheltenham may be cheaper to book in advance for specific trains compared to the flexible fares on the day.

Not just GWR services

You can also use your GWR pay-as-you-go smartcard on other train operator’s services in the area, including Cross Country between Weston-super-Mare/Bristol and Cheltenham Spa, and Transport for Wales rail services between Gloucester and Cheltenham Spa.

Zonal fare map :

https://www.gwr.com/~/media/media-library-redesign/your-tickets/bristol-payg/pay-as-you-go-zones-bristol-area-v3.pdf?la=en

GWR pay-as-you-go | Contactless train travel | Great Western Railway

Tap in and out with a GWR pay-as-you-go touch smartcard and leave paper tickets behind.

www.gwr.com

 

[Snow1964]

Does anyone know how this new Bristol area pay as you go card works during engineering works ?

Will there be temporary readers, or will it be people expected to walk from the station to touch in/out then go to/from the bus stop (Freshford should be interesting as bus stop is nearly mile away)

 

[JonathanH]

Does anyone know how this new Bristol area pay as you go card works during engineering works ?

Will there be temporary readers, or will it be people expected to walk from the station to touch in/out then go to/from the bus stop (Freshford should be interesting as bus stop is nearly mile away)

In London, most people seem to consider rail replacement buses to be free. TfL never got into any discipline of requiring passengers to touch in at stations for replacement buses and have not developed the 'obvious' answer of a temporary reader at the bus stop.

In principle you should touch in at the station before travel and that will no doubt be what GWR say.

There isn't anything obvious in the terms and conditions about the PAYG scheme regarding replacement buses.
https://www.gwr.com/your-tickets/smart-tickets/payg

I note that one of the conditions is that you should buy a conventional ticket if the PAYG system isn't available.

We will notify you of any planned outages of the GWR PAYG network to ensure your journey is unaffected. During any planned outages you will need to purchase a separate ticket for travel. If the GWR PAYG network is unavailable for reasons within our control, please use alternative means of purchase for travel. Should you feel the amount paid for travel as a consequence, exceeds the relevant GWR PAYG fare, please keep and provide us with your travel receipts. We will review your request and take appropriate actions, which may result in us reimbursing you the difference.

 

[Paul Kelly]

It just maintains much the same structure that already exists but with a different purchasing medium.

This is not true: the fares structure was totally changed. I wrote about it in a blog post here: https://blog.brfares.com/2021/04/29/bristol-payg-fares-reform/

 

[JonathanH]

This is not true: the fares structure was totally changed. I wrote about it in a blog post here: https://blog.brfares.com/2021/04/29/bristol-payg-fares-reform/

Yes, but essentially only to the extent that single fares were set at half the rate of period returns, where period fares existed.

Apart from that it is the same structure.

My point was really that it isn't the full RDG fares reform proposals, just some limited change to the extent needed to make the existing structure work with least change.

 

[Paul Kelly]

Yes, but essentially only to the extent that single fares were set at half the rate of period returns, where period fares existed.

Apart from that it is the same structure.

I suppose expectations may differ but I thought that was a pretty radical change! Especially considering the complete removal of the Off-Peak Return fares which always seemed to be considered sacrosanct and unable to be changed.

PAYG will be compatible with weekly tickets already held on the smartcard and will only charge for journeys outwith the weekly validity (it is implied this will be done automatically and there is no need to tap out and tap back in to start/end a weekly journey).

If I've understood correctly, there are many cases where the weekly cap is cheaper than a weekly season between two stations within the area so this means that every week you would get a refund?