GWR 150/9s again?

[pompeyfan]

NR western twitter account have posted several updates in regards to their engineering works in the West Cornwall area, including the lengthening of platforms on the St Ives branch.

In the text it’s alluded to 5 car 150s, however that is currently only possible with reforming the units into 3 car sets. Does anybody know more details?

 

[superalbs]

Think they likely mean 5 car Sprinters, which could be achieved using 3 car 158s and 2 car 150/158.

 

[pompeyfan]

Think they likely mean 5 car Sprinters, which could be achieved using 3 car 158s and 2 car 150/158.

Would they really use a 158 on an all day St Ives diagram? The dwell times would be horrific

 

[Southern Dvr]

2x 150 + 1x 153 ?

 

[Lewlew]

2x 150 + 1x 153 ?

Do GWR still have any 153s? I don't think they do.

 

[BayPaul]

Do GWR still have any 153s? I don't think they do.

They don't, and 153s wouldn't be good for dwell times either. Do 166s fit on the St Ives branch? 5 car 150s seems like the most likely in any case. I guess it also depends on whether platforms are lengthened to 5x20m (150s) or 5x24m (anything else)

 

[The exile]

How much work needs to be done to create a 3-car 150 ( beyond a bit of shunting)?

 

[Xavi]

How much work needs to be done to create a 3-car 150 ( beyond a bit of shunting)?

Was simple once but, if I understand correctly, not possible now on GWR units as the inside couplers were replaced with bar couplings several years ago.

 

[pompeyfan]

Was simple once but, if I understand correctly, not possible now on GWR units as the inside couplers were replaced with bar couplings several years ago.

The boxed in cab would need to be a bar coupling too. Not impossible as seen on the 158s, but certainly more work required.

 

[REVUpminster]

158959 worked St Ives 21/22 February.
Lelant is only being extended 6m at both ends in some tweets.
I doubt if more than 4 cars will ever operate. GWR was glad to get rid of 153s.

 

[Mitchell Hurd]

158959 worked St Ives 21/22 February.
Lelant is only being extended 6m at both ends in some tweets.
I doubt if more than 4 cars will ever operate. GWR was glad to get rid of 153s.

I'd have thought 5 coaches wasn't necessary but I'm guessing now it is.

 

[tiptoptaff]

The boxed in cab would need to be a bar coupling too. Not impossible as seen on the 158s, but certainly more work required.

The 3car 158s use semi-automatic BSIs and not bars between the units

 

[northernbelle]

The proposal is to use 5-car Class 150 formations. Class 158s do not work well on the St Ives line in the summer due to their longer dwell times.

 

[tiptoptaff]

The proposal is to use 5-car Class 150 formations. Class 158s do not work well on the St Ives line in the summer due to their longer dwell times.

158s don't work down there at all!
A trip or two has to get knocked out whatever the season if a 158 makes it on the branch to get the timings back.

 

[pompeyfan]

The 3car 158s use semi-automatic BSIs and not bars between the units

I’ll bow to your better knowledge, but I’ve certainly been told by GWR fitters that the boxed in cab was a bar, and the external was BSI.

 

[northernbelle]

I’ll bow to your better knowledge, but I’ve certainly been told by GWR fitters that the boxed in cab was a bar, and the external was BSI.

It is possible to couple a bar coupler to a BSI with a suitable adapter - I think this was how the previous Class 150/9 hybrids were coupled.

 

[nw1]

Would they really use a 158 on an all day St Ives diagram? The dwell times would be horrific

Also you're using express stock on a very short shuttle, which seems a waste.

 

[REVUpminster]

How are they going to make 5 car formations 2 x 150s with a 153 in the middle. 6 cabs seems a lot of wasted space. Just can't see it.

Exeter uses 17 150s out of 20 on a good day supplemented by 2 166s. 158s generally take care of Barnstaple. and extra train will be needed in May for Okehampton.

 

[northernbelle]

How are they going to make 5 car formations 2 x 150s with a 153 in the middle. 6 cabs seems a lot of wasted space. Just can't see it.

Exeter uses 17 150s out of 20 on a good day supplemented by 2 166s. 158s generally take care of Barnstaple. and extra train will be needed in May for Okehampton.

The idea would be to split a 150 to create two 'hybrid' Class 150s with a cab in the middle - much like the 158/9s currently used by GWR.

A 150+153+150 formation has been used on the St Ives before, but the 153 impacted on the dwell times which are crucial on the branch. I suspect it would have also had to use the main line platform at St Erth and use local door only at Lelant and Carbis Bay if they were served at all. None of that is practical now due to the loadings and frequency of trains on the main line so a 5 car Class 150 formation with branch platforms suitably extended is the most practical arrangement for now. Further capacity enhancement in the form of a passing loop is also being examined.

The expectation is that the 150 fleet will become freer as a result of changes in the LTV area permitting more Turbos to come west. There are other things you could do to free up 150s such as using 158s or Turbos on the Okehampton line if available.

 

[REVUpminster]

Exeter has the 7 3 Car 158s, six of which have operated Barnstaple's three diagrams this week. One has operated Paignton Exmouth this Wed/Thur meaning 4/7 were used. From May they might need 4 158s because of the Axminster service extension.
Oddly 158762 (2 car) was used on the Falmouth branch Tuesday.
GWR (and Scotrail) are looking to replace the HSTx4/7 as soon as practical. If the 769s actually come in service and 165s come west there will be a lot of stock changes in the next few years and 221's, I think, will be at the forefront.
I'll stick my neck out and say Exeter will have 3 car 165s and 3 car 158s for the Devon and Cornwall branches in the next few years. It's what Exeter depot was rebuilt for.

 

[northernbelle]

Exeter has the 7 3 Car 158s, six of which have operated Barnstaple's three diagrams this week. One has operated Paignton Exmouth this Wed/Thur meaning 4/7 were used. From May they might need 4 158s because of the Axminster service extension.
Oddly 158762 (2 car) was used on the Falmouth branch Tuesday.
GWR (and Scotrail) are looking to replace the HSTx4/7 as soon as practical. If the 769s actually come in service and 165s come west there will be a lot of stock changes in the next few years and 221's, I think, will be at the forefront.
I'll stick my neck out and say Exeter will have 3 car 165s and 3 car 158s for the Devon and Cornwall branches in the next few years. It's what Exeter depot was rebuilt for.

There'll be at least one 3-car Class 165 available from the May TT change...

 

[JonathanH]

There'll be at least one 3-car Class 165 available from the May TT change...

What is releasing it from LTV services? If it is spare already, why has it not been sent west?

 

[HamworthyGoods]

What is releasing it from LTV services? If it is spare already, why has it not been sent west?

Some timetable tweaks on both the North Downs and Oxford/Didcot peak workings release 2 turbo units from Reading.

 

[fgwrich]

Some timetable tweaks on both the North Downs and Oxford/Didcot peak workings release 2 turbo units from Reading.

Presumably the 3tph Reading - Basing Peak shuttle is dropped, releasing one unit as well?

 

[507020]

Was simple once but, if I understand correctly, not possible now on GWR units as the inside couplers were replaced with bar couplings several years ago.

The Northern units 150209/212 and 150223 had their BSI couplers at cab ends replaced with bars in order to be sandwiched between 150/1 driving cars to create a 3 car formation and they currently run between Rochdale and Clitheroe so it is entirely possible.

The idea would be to split a 150 to create two 'hybrid' Class 150s with a cab in the middle - much like the 158/9s currently used by GWR.

A 150+153+150 formation has been used on the St Ives before, but the 153 impacted on the dwell times which are crucial on the branch. I suspect it would have also had to use the main line platform at St Erth and use local door only at Lelant and Carbis Bay if they were served at all. None of that is practical now due to the loadings and frequency of trains on the main line so a 5 car Class 150 formation with branch platforms suitably extended is the most practical arrangement for now. Further capacity enhancement in the form of a passing loop is also being examined.

The expectation is that the 150 fleet will become freer as a result of changes in the LTV area permitting more Turbos to come west. There are other things you could do to free up 150s such as using 158s or Turbos on the Okehampton line if available.

Would the 5 car formation be formed of a sandwiched 3 car 150 + normal 2 car 150? I believe the bay at St Erth can accommodate 5 but not 6 coaches. The busiest crush loaded train I have been on was a 4 car 150 on the St Ives branch and a 15 minute 5 car service would probably still find a way to be crush loaded. The issue with a passing loop is that the line was never double track, however it was built to Brunel 7’ gauge so the formation should be wider than necessary for a single standard gauge line and I can see most of the section between Lelant and Carbis Bay being doubled.

I can’t see anything wrong with Turbos and 158s to Okehampton. When was the last time one got there? When I went it was a 150.

 

[pompeyfan]

Presume the post regarding a spare turbo was actually in reference to the Brighton’s being dropped, but the unit that ended on Fratton to form 1S91 still starts on Fratton, but runs ECS to Warminster via Chandlers Ford.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

What is releasing it from LTV services? If it is spare already, why has it not been sent west?

Constant, persistent cynicism does not progress matters; there is a substantial tightening to come of the May 2022 timetable

 

[REVUpminster]

The Northern units 150209/212 and 150223 had their BSI couplers at cab ends replaced with bars in order to be sandwiched between 150/1 driving cars to create a 3 car formation and they currently run between Rochdale and Clitheroe so it is entirely possible.

Would the 5 car formation be formed of a sandwiched 3 car 150 + normal 2 car 150? I believe the bay at St Erth can accommodate 5 but not 6 coaches. The busiest crush loaded train I have been on was a 4 car 150 on the St Ives branch and a 15 minute 5 car service would probably still find a way to be crush loaded. The issue with a passing loop is that the line was never double track, however it was built to Brunel 7’ gauge so the formation should be wider than necessary for a single standard gauge line and I can see most of the section between Lelant and Carbis Bay being doubled.

I can’t see anything wrong with Turbos and 158s to Okehampton. When was the last time one got there? When I went it was a 150.

Since GWR joined realtimes showing stock I've been keeping a record of Devon and lately Cornwall stock Mon-Fri. 166203 worked Okehampton 10 January and and 165132 the following day. Nothing since unless at the weekend.
Surely the 165s have to come west as 769s come in as there can't be the storage at Reading for both??

 

[Parallel]

If discussing 5-car 150s, it makes me wonder if GWR have been in touch with Northern RE: leasing 150001 or 150002.

To be honest, I’m surprised more hasn’t been done in clearance to get Turbos down further SW - it’s only a matter of time, surely? 4 car 165s are probably ideal for somewhere like St Ives as I imagine they’d have similar capacity to 5 car 150 formations, plus more space for buggies and a seating arrangement for more families to sit together. Faster acceleration between stops and doors still in the right places too.

 

[northernbelle]

If discussing 5-car 150s, it makes me wonder if GWR have been in touch with Northern RE: leasing 150001 or 150002.

No, it'd be achieved by splitting existing units and creating 'hybrid' sets formed of a 2 car with an additional vehicle attached.