Guards duties when departing stations

[Bromley boy]

When in OBS mode, you have no control over dispatch, signals are just pretty colours, and you find some will turn their back to the window as the train moves off.

It must be hard switching from one role to another.

Do OBS have *any* role in the dispatch process, even if only to act like “informed passengers”,watch the platform and operate a passcom to stop the train if they see anything untoward?

In fairness to all concerned it strikes me it really should be “all or nothing”. Either a clearly defined role in dispatch or no role (and responsibility) at all!

Are there any situations where OBS are required to key into doors? I seem to remember that being discussed on the main DOO dispute (possibly to hold doors open to allow wheelchair boarding) and seemed completely ridiculous as OBSs in theory have no safety critical role or training.

EDIT: this isn’t intended to reopen the DOO debate. Just interesting to compare and contrast the duties of the two roles.

 

[sarahj]

No, none at all. It sort of went from, you don't even have to bother with the being near the doors, or stand on the other side. To now you have to put your key on, look for any folks that need assistant (such as a ramp), key off, stand back on the train. Then let the driver do the rest. I've seen some stand on the platform almost right to the end, esp ex guards, but after hearing of the crap an ex guard got for interfering in a dispatch, I'm key on, quick look, nope, key off, back on train, would you like a ticket?
An odd issue came up for me. I'd been back and forth to Ore from Eastbourne a few times as an OBS, so nothing to do with anything dispatch wise. Then one day I had to work the once a day 313 that heads that way. At Eastbourne, I was waiting for the signal to clear, when it suddenly occurred to me that I'd forgotten to push the TRTS button. Bare in mind, this is not something I've needed to push for 10 months. I got it pushed 30 secs before departure time, but it was too late and we sat there for 4 mins waiting for a down London to come in. Needless to say, I got a please explain. My answer was interesting and I heard nothing back.

 

[pompeyfan]

I believe OBS key on to check for any passengers requiring assistance. They must then quickly key off. I wonder if said OBS would draw attention to themselves by intentionally hold their local door open for various reasons (late runners, train safety check etc)

Edit: SarahJ post came through at the same time.

Without getting yourself into bother would you be able to expand on why an ex guard got a ticking off for interfering, I’m interested to know. Obviously I understand if you can’t.

 

[sarahj]

Without getting yourself into bother would you be able to expand on why an ex guard got a ticking off for interfering, I’m interested to know. Obviously I understand if you can’t.

I'm afraid not, even to say why not could get me into bother.

 

[pompeyfan]

I'm afraid not, even say why not could get me into bother.

No worries, I fully understand

 

[ComUtoR]

I have, at one station, had a member of platform staff attempt to dispatch me without them actually having a dispatch license. I think it would be safe to assume that if an OBS made any attempt to dispatch a train, either incorrectly, or without a current license then it could be considered a safety of the line incident.

We have a few locations that are DOO but platform staff raise their hands to show the platform to be clear. As I'm DOO there is no way I could accept that as any sort of valid dispatch. Even when I had a Guard traveling pass or between DOO/Guard areas when they dispatched at a DOO station it was considered to be unsafe.

Anyone interfering in dispatch when not required would be against rules/policies etc.

 

[221129]

All driving cabs have droplights (or some form of opening window)

No they don't.

 

[pt_mad]

I have, at one station, had a member of platform staff attempt to dispatch me without them actually having a dispatch license. I think it would be safe to assume that if an OBS made any attempt to dispatch a train, either incorrectly, or without a current license then it could be considered a safety of the line incident.

We have a few locations that are DOO but platform staff raise their hands to show the platform to be clear. As I'm DOO there is no way I could accept that as any sort of valid dispatch. Even when I had a Guard traveling pass or between DOO/Guard areas when they dispatched at a DOO station it was considered to be unsafe.

Anyone interfering in dispatch when not required would be against rules/policies etc.

Sort of like on London Underground then? They have platform staff at times who raise a bat to say loading is complete or something similar, but have no official part in dispatch.

 

[47434]

Slightly off topic but I am slightly bemused at the mandatory requirement to step out and check a train has 'platformed' when pulling into to a bay platform. Is this a case of same rule everytime for ease of implementation?

 

[philthetube]

also checking platform is safe to open doors, no spillages fights etc.

 

[Mojo]

Slightly off topic but I am slightly bemused at the mandatory requirement to step out and check a train has 'platformed' when pulling into to a bay platform. Is this a case of same rule everytime for ease of implementation?

On the CrossCity line in Birmingham there is a green line painted on the platform floor which indicates to the guard that the train is in the correct position so when working from the cab the train doors can be opened right away. Also, I recall someone here posting that their Toc’s policy was something along that lines that guards must be certain the train is platformed correctly, and accordingly it isn’t essential depending on route knowledge etc. Don’t recall the Toc for that or the exact wording, but it’s something along those lines.

 

[Dieseldriver]

Slightly off topic but I am slightly bemused at the mandatory requirement to step out and check a train has 'platformed' when pulling into to a bay platform. Is this a case of same rule everytime for ease of implementation?

I'm slightly bemused that you are bemused by this... There are still plenty of reasons why the train may not have pulled right down to the buffers (involving various faults, potential TPWS activations, passcoms, incidents or the Driver bringing the train to a halt due to something occurring ahead of the train as it approaches the buffer stops). There are also terminus platforms that aren't able to accommodate all lengths of trains so theasy rear of the train could potentially be hanging off at the back if the Driver accepts a wrong routing. Also, where terminus platforms are permissive, the train could have been signalled onto an occupied platform where both trains lengths are too long (happens more frequently than you'd think, particularly during disruption when the appropriate information hasn't been passed on to the relevant parties).
The way we work on the railway is to assume the worst and go for the safer option. By automatically checking the train is fully accommodated every single time, it makes the process simpler and reduces the opportunity to overlook something due to 'overthinking' the situation.

 

[LowLevel]

On the CrossCity line in Birmingham there is a green line painted on the platform floor which indicates to the guard that the train is in the correct position so when working from the cab the train doors can be opened right away. Also, I recall someone here posting that their Toc’s policy was something along that lines that guards must be certain the train is platformed correctly, and accordingly it isn’t essential depending on route knowledge etc. Don’t recall the Toc for that or the exact wording, but it’s something along those lines.

East Midlands Trains and South Western Railway at the minimum do not mandate opening the local door first although it is still an option available.