Guard’s announcement regarding BTP

[fgwrich]

I think this is an important point that people don't really appreciate when this subject comes up. Particularly CID and OSUs, involved in stuff like graffiti and cable theft.

The problem is, the force doesn't help itself, often perhaps taking part in too many revenue operations while leaving some of the more priority stuff behind (people don't realise how resource hungry they can be and I'm sorry, but often a waste of time and resources often to appease Revenue). It also doesn't help that, as other members have pointed out, the force is so thinly spread outside of the London area. Sure, there are offices at some of the smaller stations now but, these offices will often have few officers stationed out of there and they may often, as in the case of Taunton, be out and about on train patrols. The force CID I know however, for the amount of officers they have, work incredibly hard and often have some horrific jobs to deal with - eg, the stabbing at Glasgow Central and Murder at Glasgow High Street last year.

 

[Runningaround]

I recently had an incident where I required police assistance and couldn't get in touch with BTP. It was urgent so no time to 61016, and tried to call the emergency number only nobody answered. Phoned the local police instead who passed the message on to BTP who to be fair did meet me within 20 minutes!

What a faff? About time we just have a Police Force covering all and not one for Railways and another for the rest of society with the nearest units attending instead of phoning around.

 

[Taunton]

They seem a bit thin on the ground down Taunton way. Felt a bit sorry for the local police a few weeks ago. Messaged the btp to alert them to a fight on my train, eventually managed to get it sorted and messaged them to say everyone involved had left the train. Unfortunately the btp control had messaged the locals for help, but not bothered to pass on the all clear message. 4 Avon and Somerset turned up to meet me at Taunton, all I could do was apologise for the message not getting passed on.

Long ago there was one BTP (actually 'Railway Police' then) per shift at Taunton, so an establishment of 3 or 4. No sergeant, no car. The principal task then was combatting any theft of freight in transit from the goods yards, though they had a room in the station.

 

[the sniper]

The problem is, the force doesn't help itself, often perhaps taking part in too many revenue operations while leaving some of the more priority stuff behind (people don't realise how resource hungry they can be and I'm sorry, but often a waste of time and resources often to appease Revenue).

Aren't revenue operations normally resourced out of the OSUs and neighbourhood teams, rather than response though? Probably region specific though, as some areas presumably don't have anything but response.

 

[fgwrich]

Aren't revenue operations normally resourced out of the OSUs and neighbourhood teams, rather than response though? Probably region specific though, as some areas presumably don't have anything but response.

Not really, most BTP stations outside of London will only have response. There’s little distinction in the BTP between Neighbourhoods and Response compared to Home Office, where they can resource officers in such a way (and specialise).

 

[Bluejays]

Probably a bit off topic. But when I look at the amount of money that must be spent on some of the agency security roles at stations, I wonder if we'd be a lot better off by using that money to fund and recruit more btp officers . Nothing against the security guys, but they often seem to have a poorly defined role and appear to be there to just make up the numbers in a lot of cases. A bigger btp could be incredibly useful both for incidents and the revenue side of things.

 

[Pinza-C55]

At King's Cross in the 1980s the BTP office was on platform 8 and you famously never saw them on the station because the office had a back door.

 

[Steve Harris]

Lose BTP and you lose a lot of specialist areas. BTP officers certainly do receive some degree of trackside training (though sadly use of fantastic information systems like Realtime Trains isn't, and hence you have a lot of officers using Ann already overworked control room), and I can fully assure you that local forces will not be interested in doing, or taking on, half the jobs BTP does - revenue related, criminal damage etc. Not only that, but despite the governments bluff about recruiting 20,000 officers (to home office forces only - BTP is not one of them - and in effect replacing more than 20,000 cut by... the conservatives), a lot of home office forces are still under pressure to make cutbacks. They wont want the hassle, and additional cost, that training officers to BTP standard would bring. Of course, having an officer being able to do everything sounds ideal, but it just wouldn't be practical, time or cost effective to do such a thing*.

*For example, BTP officers investigate their own allocated crimes, some home office forces do the same, my local one doesn't. The consequence of this is that these officers have more time to do response jobs, but the force has its own investigation team, which costs more to run. And in an age where the treasury controls nearly everything...

Oh dear.... I think you just might need to reword your post, as I work with a guy who's son has recently been recruited by the...... BTP !!
And there's more than just him on the training course btw.

 

[fgwrich]

Oh dear.... I think you just might need to reword your post, as I work with a guy who's son has recently been recruited by the...... BTP !!
And there's more than just him on the training course btw.

As in? BTP is one of 3 non Home Office Forces in the UK - along with MOD and CNC, They are not counted as part of the government / home office's 20,000 new officers recruitment drive because they are a non home office force - BTP get's its funding predominately from the DfT / The RDG etc. BTPs training is different to Home Office Officers too - 24 Weeks + 10 week tutor phase as apposed to roughly 10 weeks + on the job training + 10 week tutor phase, though I'm not sure what the BTP does next, Home Office Officers now either to IDLP (the old scheme similar to what BTP used to use) or PCDA (Policing Constable Degree Apprenticeship - Now being largely scrapped due to it's unpopularity, funny that).

I don't doubt they'll be more than just him on the course - BTP, like a lot of forces, still has quite a high turnover. But, unlike the Home Office Forces, BTPs probation period is slightly better at 2 years than a heavy 3 year PDCA scheme.

Edit: BTP made a bid to be part of the National Uplift scheme. However, I am unaware if they were successful, the Home Office tends not to deal with BTP. And the College of Policing has recently rather cast BTP adrift.

News - Blue Line Jobs

www.bluelinejobs.co.uk

But all this is somewhat diverting the thread. Another area somewhat largely forgotten about that BTP is good with, and has possibly more experience than most: County Lines.

 

[riceuten]

My own experience with the BTP was similar to others. They got in contact a couple of days later and seemed annoyed that I didn't want to come into Waterloo Station and give a statement (I lived the other side of London). I did see a nice bit of transport policing (by Kent Police, not the BTP!) when travelling to Canterbury East. Unbeknowndst to me, a gang of youths had "steamed" part of the train, and the police were in pursuit but not at the station. The driver invented a signal problem, allowing the Kent Constabulary to reach the station and stopped just far enough in to admit the police who then accosted the miscreants before the doors were opened, a pair of Black Marias being ready to take them into custody.

It wouldn't exactly be rocket science to have a transport section of each police force and do away with the BTP completely.

 

[the sniper]

It wouldn't exactly be rocket science to have a transport section of each police force and do away with the BTP completely.

What is it you're expecting to gain and what is your funding model? Essentially you just eliminate the chance BTP can attend or investigate and rely on Locals being able to prioritise/resource a response, which would often happen anyway if BTP can't resource it, depending on the severity of the incident. If the TOCs are still paying, how are you dividing the funding between forces and efficiently operating the individual 'transport sections'? The draining of resources away from many road policing units over the years would suggest a transport section would be considered an even lower priority for resources...

I think some people would be disappointed to find that what the BTP want to follow up/record/investigate days later wouldn't even get a response at all from the Locals if the BTP didn't exist.

 

[Horizon22]

Not really, most BTP stations outside of London will only have response. There’s little distinction in the BTP between Neighbourhoods and Response compared to Home Office, where they can resource officers in such a way (and specialise).

Most revenue operations are generally planned at the “least disruptive” response hours though. Often shoulder peak or even peak itself. By and large - it’s a broad generalisation but I’m comfortable making it - there’s less passenger issues then.

 

[MadMac]

As in? BTP is one of 3 non Home Office Forces in the UK - along with MOD and CNC

What about Police Scotland? PSNI? Who do the four Welsh territorial forces answer to? The Scottish Government still harbour a desire to “integrate” BTP into Police Scotland.

 

[Hadders]

If BTP was scrapped you'd end up with local forces arguing over which force should cover an incident onboard a moving train.

 

[Falcon1200]

Is there really a need for BTP at all in its current form?

Yes! Because, as you say;

I understand there is some unique training to go on tracks etc after an accident

Lose BTP and you lose a lot of specialist areas.

Absolutely, plus an understanding of the functions and requirements of the railway, which national Police do not have (Not their fault of course).

It wouldn't exactly be rocket science to have a transport section of each police force and do away with the BTP completely.

The Scottish Government still harbour a desire to “integrate” BTP into Police Scotland.

Thankfully the Scottish Government seem to have dropped this proposal, possibly because every single part of the railway industry in Scotland opposed it. The BTP are thinly spread, which is why response can be so poor, but they are invaluable when incidents occur.

 

[Iskra]

I have been on a few trains recently where fights are broken out and very rarely has anything been done about them. Texting the British Transport Police is all well and good although it’s not great when none of them are around.

Usually I move carriage to protect myself and my eardrums from the loud rap music coming out of the Bluetooth speakers most of these undesirables carry

This only happened on a train that I was on once, when a coked-up squaddie decided to start inflicting violence on random passengers late at night between Manchester and Sheffield. When I got signal on the Hope Valley I messaged BTP and 3 of them met the train at Sheffield. They were swarmed by irate passengers complaining about the group of lads involved but they were talking to the offender when I left so hopefully some action was taken, but I also have little faith that anything was done.

 

[RPI]

Aren't revenue operations normally resourced out of the OSUs and neighbourhood teams, rather than response though? Probably region specific though, as some areas presumably don't have anything but response.

BTP very, very rarely take part in Revenue Operations in the West, in fact, I can't remember the last time they attended one with us that wasn't a special event such as boardmasters.

 

[fgwrich]

What about Police Scotland? PSNI? Who do the four Welsh territorial forces answer to? The Scottish Government still harbour a desire to “integrate” BTP into Police Scotland.

Police Scotland answers to Holyrood, PSNI to Stormont, Wales is an odd one as it as semi devolved - the four welsh forces answer to the Senedd Cymru, but they also have the same PCC set up as England, and as such the federation is the Police Federation of England and Wales.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 30 Dec 2022 ==

Yes! Because, as you say;





Absolutely, plus an understanding of the functions and requirements of the railway, which national Police do not have (Not their fault of course).





Thankfully the Scottish Government seem to have dropped this proposal, possibly because every single part of the railway industry in Scotland opposed it. The BTP are thinly spread, which is why response can be so poor, but they are invaluable when incidents occur.

I believe the other issues that weren’t exactly taken into account when the idea was first dreamt up were Staffing - how can you guarantee that you have enough rail trained officers on shift, and won’t get poached to cover for standard response jobs elsewhere, and Pay and Pension's. BTP, being the force for the railways, is part of the railway pension scheme. Home office and territorial forces are part of the national police scheme. Both are different, and to amalgamate them would be rather costly.

 

[Edsmith]

If BTP was scrapped you'd end up with local forces arguing over which force should cover an incident onboard a moving train.

Couldn't the same situation arise on a coach? I saw a police programme recently when they were called to a National Express coach over an alleged theft.

I can understand BTP being needed for certain things on the railway but I would think most incidents that occur at a station could be dealt with by the local police.

 

[Runningaround]

As in? BTP is one of 3 non Home Office Forces in the UK - along with MOD and CNC, They are not counted as part of the government / home office's 20,000 new officers recruitment drive because they are a non home office force - BTP get's its funding predominately from the DfT / The RDG etc. BTPs training is different to Home Office Officers too - 24 Weeks + 10 week tutor phase as apposed to roughly 10 weeks + on the job training + 10 week tutor phase, though I'm not sure what the BTP does next, Home Office Officers now either to IDLP (the old scheme similar to what BTP used to use) or PCDA (Policing Constable Degree Apprenticeship - Now being largely scrapped due to it's unpopularity, funny that).

I don't doubt they'll be more than just him on the course - BTP, like a lot of forces, still has quite a high turnover. But, unlike the Home Office Forces, BTPs probation period is slightly better at 2 years than a heavy 3 year PDCA scheme.

Edit: BTP made a bid to be part of the National Uplift scheme. However, I am unaware if they were successful, the Home Office tends not to deal with BTP. And the College of Policing has recently rather cast BTP adrift.

News - Blue Line Jobs

www.bluelinejobs.co.uk

But all this is somewhat diverting the thread. Another area somewhat largely forgotten about that BTP is good with, and has possibly more experience than most: County Lines.

But why do you need to have a whole separate Police Force, why not have sections within the local forces with railway specialist knowledge who'd be the BTP who've transferred these then assist the general Policeman. Just like you have firearm, dog handlers etc they do normal everyday police work but are ready to deal with their speciality. You can have The Police force Policing everything not just their bit.

 

[ScottGallagher]

I was careful not to call for the abolition so sorry if that wasn't clear. I meant in its current set up , meaning they are better deployed doing the specialist or undercover stuff (County lines being a good example mentoned above) and not drunks on a Friday night. If the Government funded police properly in adequate numbers , there would be room for local forces to help out more. Wishful thinking though.

 

[Steve Harris]

As in? BTP is one of 3 non Home Office Forces in the UK - along with MOD and CNC, They are not counted as part of the government / home office's 20,000 new officers recruitment drive because they are a non home office force - BTP get's its funding predominately from the DfT / The RDG etc. BTPs training is different to Home Office Officers too - 24 Weeks + 10 week tutor phase as apposed to roughly 10 weeks + on the job training + 10 week tutor phase, though I'm not sure what the BTP does next, Home Office Officers now either to IDLP (the old scheme similar to what BTP used to use) or PCDA (Policing Constable Degree Apprenticeship - Now being largely scrapped due to it's unpopularity, funny that).

I don't doubt they'll be more than just him on the course - BTP, like a lot of forces, still has quite a high turnover. But, unlike the Home Office Forces, BTPs probation period is slightly better at 2 years than a heavy 3 year PDCA scheme.

Edit: BTP made a bid to be part of the National Uplift scheme. However, I am unaware if they were successful, the Home Office tends not to deal with BTP. And the College of Policing has recently rather cast BTP adrift.

News - Blue Line Jobs

www.bluelinejobs.co.uk

But all this is somewhat diverting the thread. Another area somewhat largely forgotten about that BTP is good with, and has possibly more experience than most: County Lines.

If the BTP is not part of the 20,000 recruit number then why mention the 20,000 as it's OT and as you point out, nothing to do with BTP !!!!!

 

[fgwrich]

If the BTP is not part of the 20,000 recruit number then why mention the 20,000 as it's OT and as you point out, nothing to do with BTP !!!!!

Perhaps because you bought up the connection to your colleagues son joining the force, while highlighting the 20,000 Uplift comment in my post? In my post, i mentioned that BTP is not (at least initially) part of the scheme, to which you then bolded part of it then commented I should reword it? Any Force can recruit at any time - it’ll be the home office that decides if they will be counted as part of the uplift or not, which, BTP, CNC and MOD won’t be part of.

 

[Steve Harris]

Perhaps because you bought up the connection to your colleagues son joining the force, while highlighting the 20,000 Uplift comment in my post? In my post, i mentioned that BTP is not (at least initially) part of the scheme, to which you then bolded part of it then commented I should reword it? Any Force can recruit at any time - it’ll be the home office that decides if they will be counted as part of the uplift or not, which, BTP, CNC and MOD won’t be part of.

That's because it can be read in a way which is different to how you meant it !
Perhaps if you said.... "Not only that, but despite the governments bluff about recruiting 20,000 officers (to home office forces only - BTP is not one of them - as they are funded separately and any recruitment is not counted in the 20,000 figure),

I find it best to just keep it concise and to the point. I might of then not got completely the wrong end of the stick. Because the way it was written I thought no BTP recruitment was happening at all, hence why I pointed out it was, lol.
Bearing in mind a few years ago media outlets were reporting that the government was looking to dissband BTP officers into local forces, so hopefully you can see why I got the wrong end of the stick.

So, yes, it might be better to reword it (which ive done for you), or just leave the politics point scoring out of it, lol

 

[fgwrich]

But why do you need to have a whole separate Police Force, why not have sections within the local forces with railway specialist knowledge who'd be the BTP who've transferred these then assist the general Policeman. Just like you have firearm, dog handlers etc they do normal everyday police work but are ready to deal with their speciality. You can have The Police force Policing everything not just their bit.

Largely for the same reasons the BTP Scotland > Police Scotland merger hasn’t happened yet, and thankfully may never happen.

So, without trying to make this a long post, you need to take a in depth look at what makes the BTP a difference Force to your local police forces.

As I’ve mentioned previously, the majority of the forces in England and Wales are considered as Home Office forces. There are 3 which aren’t - MOD, CNC and BTP. These are funded differently to Home Office / Local forces. The BTP receives its funding predominantly through the Railways / DfT / RDG. It, being a non home office force, was always a Police Force for the Railway, paid for by the Railway. Therefore it will always be accountable to the DfT / RDG. Local forces are funded differently, funded by the home office, and are accountable to the PCC’s & home office.

Secondly, resourcing. Of course, local forces have various different units such as the aforementioned Traffic, Dogs etc. But, what you would need to guarantee is that these specialist officers aren’t drawn into and tied up to local policing issues - eg, dealing with a simple shop theft while a fatality comes in. What do you do with the BTP offices at all the stations too - any local force isn’t going to want to have a BTP section Sat in there, while you might have officers stretched on a Friday or Saturday night Night Time Economy job going on in the town centre.

Thirdly, Railway Policing is somewhat unique. The Railways has its own set of bylaws, its own sets of issues, and its own sets of challenges. You also have county lines issues, cable thefts, criminal damage (eg graffiti) etc - all nationwide crimes, so can you imagine how much slower a crime would take to be investigated if one officer from one force has to start it, then correlate all the evidence, then pass it on to another force, then both officers from both forces have to attend court if it goes to that. Likewise (albeit at times it doesn’t seem like it) for responding to incidents. Any incident occurring in another forces patch would have to be passed from one force control room to another, and taking up more valuable time in the process.

And all in all, money. As I’ve mentioned in a post above about the Police Scotland merger. Not only would the pensions of all BTP employees have to be transferred over, so would everything from pay to benefits to resources etc. With the government likely to try and decrease public spending again, it isn’t going to want to fork out a hefty amount to in effect buy up and break something that, just about, works in its current form.

 

[Matt_pool]

There were two BTP stood together on the concourse at Liverpool Lime Street this morning. They were talking to a passenger and then pointed her in the direction of the toilets, or it could have been The North Western Wetherspoons!

 

[TPO]

3 hours after a kicking is not a response.

It is a response, although not a satisfactory one. I've known assaults with no follow up whatsoever. That's the benchmark that I've got in my mind

Definitely not. And, one wonders what would happen if another passenger (or the Guard) took matters into their own hands and physically stopped the assault..... Unfortunately, I suspect that would be a priority in a way that a mere "Guard getting a kicking" is not. Of course, if miscreants did meet with a robust response they would no doubt put video on Tw*tter as the "victim".....

Really not good enough. ALL Railway staff working trains on their own especially in the evening when the anti-socials are about should be able to expect a rapid and robust response- Always. That's about priorities, as well as how many police officers we have.

Shame that BTP doesn’t have many “boots on the ground” outside London. However Manc Picc had at least 7/8 BTP patrol cars parked outside last time I was there so they must have a large no. of officers in Manchester.

The BBC “Railcops” series from 2004 showed a side to BTP which most people these days would class as heavy handed or old school.

I may be old-fashioned but in majority of cases "old-school"=effective. The heads of the various police forces need to get their heads around the core part of the job- dealing with the bad people who cause harm, not chasing "thought crime" or chasing people up for non-crime such as holding an unpopular (but wholly legal) opinion. It's often said that 80% of crime is carried out by a small number of people- and the police know who they are. But proving it to the satisfaction of the CPS is another thing.

The problem is, the force doesn't help itself, often perhaps taking part in too many revenue operations while leaving some of the more priority stuff behind (people don't realise how resource hungry they can be and I'm sorry, but often a waste of time and resources often to appease Revenue). It also doesn't help that, as other members have pointed out, the force is so thinly spread outside of the London area. Sure, there are offices at some of the smaller stations now but, these offices will often have few officers stationed out of there and they may often, as in the case of Taunton, be out and about on train patrols. The force CID I know however, for the amount of officers they have, work incredibly hard and often have some horrific jobs to deal with - eg, the stabbing at Glasgow Central and Murder at Glasgow High Street last year.

I don't have an issue with a "revenue" operation which is in fact a cover for a "County Lines" operation. Also, a proportion of those persons fare-jumping may well be committing other offences...... as with uninsured drivers of cars (see below!). So it's an easy way to catch them without trailing around the neighborhood.

My own experience with the BTP was similar to others. They got in contact a couple of days later and seemed annoyed that I didn't want to come into Waterloo Station and give a statement (I lived the other side of London). I did see a nice bit of transport policing (by Kent Police, not the BTP!) when travelling to Canterbury East. Unbeknowndst to me, a gang of youths had "steamed" part of the train, and the police were in pursuit but not at the station. The driver invented a signal problem, allowing the Kent Constabulary to reach the station and stopped just far enough in to admit the police who then accosted the miscreants before the doors were opened, a pair of Black Marias being ready to take them into custody.

It wouldn't exactly be rocket science to have a transport section of each police force and do away with the BTP completely.

Aye, but then the "transport" section would go the way of the Traffic Police who in recent years have been cut to the bone. Which is a bad move from many angles (including crime prevention) as more traffic police means catching more criminals..... as a traffic cop on a TV series a few years ago opined, "criminality is a lifestyle choice- the drug dealer/professional thief typically doesn't bother taxing or insuring the car they are driving around in, so when we stop someone for an uninsured vehicle, most of the time we find they have committed a bunch of other offenses." Better to have a National Transport Police to cover road and rail, and fund them properly.

We need police who are not necessarily graduates, but rather are street-smart, have some life experience and are allowed to exercise discretion. They also should not be picking up the pieces of a failed social care/mental health system, or having to deal with drunks when the bars kick out (ditto A&E, anyone ending up in A&E because they were drunk and incapable needs to be sent the full bill, again it's not on that drunken "patients" are abusive to front-line emergency workers of any type).

I have sympathy for front-line officers- I am sure they would much rather have the staff and (lack of) targets regime that meant that they were able to respond properly to incidents such as a Guard being assaulted.

The other element is the courts. I watched a very well produced documentary last year following CID on Tyneside. They had worked meticulously to prepare good evidence (including decent quality CCTV) where a person was set upon and beaten in the street, being badly injured. They arrested the suspected culprit..... but CPS decided not to prosecute. The victim or their family might have blamed police when nothing happened, but the police their job- it was the CPS that didn't bother.

I am coming to think that there's too much "Guardian" idealism out there and not enough in the way of boundaries on behaviour. It's not OK to tantrum and beat up a Guard because they ask for a ticket and you don't have one. Similarly, it's not OK to spit in the face of the nurse who is trying to clean that gash in your head. That is scum behaviour.

The problem is, that not dealing with "low-level" anti-social behaviour sends a particular message that you can do anything and get away with it- so it gets worse and scum behaviour develops. Loud music, feet on seats, leaving a pile of nasty litter, smoking in banned areas- that's how it starts, with a lack of consideration of the comfort of others. And when society sends the message back that it's OK to not consider anyone else's needs only your own, then the behaviour carries on- positive feedback.

TPO

 

[Bertie the bus]

I must admit in my patch civil police are very good at turning up to incidents, even on the railway. Btp not so much...

I've only experienced one police incident on a Merseyrail train. There was some fight/assault involving a couple of people on a service at some station between Rock Ferry and Hooton. About 12 Merseyside police turned up!

 

[al78]

I am coming to think that there's too much "Guardian" idealism out there and not enough in the way of boundaries on behaviour. It's not OK to tantrum and beat up a Guard because they ask for a ticket and you don't have one. Similarly, it's not OK to spit in the face of the nurse who is trying to clean that gash in your head. That is scum behaviour.

I doubt the Guardian editors or anyone who reads the Guardian on a regular basis would argue it is ok to beat up a guard or spit in the face of a nurse so I fail to see why you felt it necessary to apply such a stereotype.

 

[Horizon22]

Definitely not. And, one wonders what would happen if another passenger (or the Guard) took matters into their own hands and physically stopped the assault..... Unfortunately, I suspect that would be a priority in a way that a mere "Guard getting a kicking" is not. Of course, if miscreants did meet with a robust response they would no doubt put video on Tw*tter as the "victim".....

Really not good enough. ALL Railway staff working trains on their own especially in the evening when the anti-socials are about should be able to expect a rapid and robust response- Always. That's about priorities, as well as how many police officers we have.

I may be old-fashioned but in majority of cases "old-school"=effective. The heads of the various police forces need to get their heads around the core part of the job- dealing with the bad people who cause harm, not chasing "thought crime" or chasing people up for non-crime such as holding an unpopular (but wholly legal) opinion. It's often said that 80% of crime is carried out by a small number of people- and the police know who they are. But proving it to the satisfaction of the CPS is another thing.

I'm not going to labour the point but a response is a response. If it's immediate, or 3 hours, or 3 years it is still a response. Whether it is satisfactory - as I stated - is obviously a different matter.

As for your last point, why would police be chasing up people for "non-crime" or "thought crime"? They probably are following up crimes, even if you don't think that time is valuable. Your post is coming off as a bit of a rant to be honest.