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Guard’s announcement regarding BTP

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ChewChewTrain

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Just heard from the guard on my train: “Sorry we’ve been held here at Reading. I’ve been waiting for BTP to come and remove a passenger. I was expecting them at Exeter and they didn’t arrive; I was expecting them at Taunton and they didn’t arrive. They haven’t arrived here either but the passenger has got off anyway and so we now have a green light and will proceed.”

Immediately after that - you’ve guessed it - we had the automated 61016 announcement. “Sorted” my foot.

Having been reading this forum for a while, I can’t say I was surprised by any of the above.
 
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Having been reading this forum for a while, I can’t say I was surprised by any of the above.

Having worked on the railway for a while, I can’t say I’m surprised at Be There Presently not turning up!

They’re very thinly spread, to be fair.
 

Bluejays

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They seem a bit thin on the ground down Taunton way. Felt a bit sorry for the local police a few weeks ago. Messaged the btp to alert them to a fight on my train, eventually managed to get it sorted and messaged them to say everyone involved had left the train. Unfortunately the btp control had messaged the locals for help, but not bothered to pass on the all clear message. 4 Avon and Somerset turned up to meet me at Taunton, all I could do was apologise for the message not getting passed on.
 

Shaw S Hunter

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They seem a bit thin on the ground down Taunton way. Felt a bit sorry for the local police a few weeks ago. Messaged the btp to alert them to a fight on my train, eventually managed to get it sorted and messaged them to say everyone involved had left the train. Unfortunately the btp control had messaged the locals for help, but not bothered to pass on the all clear message. 4 Avon and Somerset turned up to meet me at Taunton, all I could do was apologise for the message not getting passed on.
That does at least show that in more serious cases of requests for assistance BTP will pass on jobs to the local constabulary. Been there, done that!
 

BluePenguin

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I have been on a few trains recently where fights are broken out and very rarely has anything been done about them. Texting the British Transport Police is all well and good although it’s not great when none of them are around.

Usually I move carriage to protect myself and my eardrums from the loud rap music coming out of the Bluetooth speakers most of these undesirables carry
 

Horizon22

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Probably a handful of officers available along the whole route from Taunton down into Devon & Cornwall. Local force will probably be there sooner if it’s a real emergency. But if it’s anti-social behaviour and the guard doesn’t want to / can’t engage due to threat of violence, there’s not many options unless you want a seriously prolonged delay. The threat of police might resolve the issue, but then again people could be smart to that too. The BTP are great when they’re around, just not enough.

BTP are spread exceptionally thin outside London, and their settlement comes through TOCs which are now effectively funded by government so take a guess at which direction this will be going in with regards to staffing…
 

L401CJF

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I recently had an incident where I required police assistance and couldn't get in touch with BTP. It was urgent so no time to 61016, and tried to call the emergency number only nobody answered. Phoned the local police instead who passed the message on to BTP who to be fair did meet me within 20 minutes!
 

Horizon22

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I recently had an incident where I required police assistance and couldn't get in touch with BTP. It was urgent so no time to 61016, and tried to call the emergency number only nobody answered. Phoned the local police instead who passed the message on to BTP who to be fair did meet me within 20 minutes!

Yeah if it’s urgent call 999 and it might be routed through to BTP anyway (if available) via the local force’s control.
 

Scott1

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Doesn't surprise me at all. Be There Presently and if they do attend they will just try to fob the job off as soon as they can.
 

Edsmith

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Just heard from the guard on my train: “Sorry we’ve been held here at Reading. I’ve been waiting for BTP to come and remove a passenger. I was expecting them at Exeter and they didn’t arrive; I was expecting them at Taunton and they didn’t arrive. They haven’t arrived here either but the passenger has got off anyway and so we now have a green light and will proceed.”

Immediately after that - you’ve guessed it - we had the automated 61016 announcement. “Sorted” my foot.

Having been reading this forum for a while, I can’t say I was surprised by any of the above.
Any idea what this passenger had done? If it was something relatively minor BTP probably wouldn't bother, it has been known for guards to make mountains out of molehills.
 

Ivor

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I was assaulted working on my own at a Sussex station on a late, I managed to call 999 who said they would contact BTP, long story short no sign of the local police or the BTP but…….

3 hours later I got a call from BTP asking if I was ok & they couldn’t come as were busy 30 miles away, I put the phone down & ignored other calls.

Two days later a BTP officer strolled on to speak to me & he was told in no uncertain terms to go away.

I subsequently put in official complaints to both local police & the BTP, one year on several email responses spouting ‘political rubbish’ I’ve given up.

We were told if you have a real issue call 999, other colleagues had told me similar stories of passing to BTP to no avail.

Sorry gone a bit off the BTP thread by mentioning local force but felt relevant.
 

Edsmith

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Sorry; no idea.
Ok fair enough, I would imagine it would be the local police rather than BTP if anyone turned up?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

I was assaulted working on my own at a Sussex station on a late, I managed to call 999 who said they would contact BTP, long story short no sign of the local police or the BTP but…….

3 hours later I got a call from BTP asking if I was ok & they couldn’t come as were busy 30 miles away, I put the phone down & ignored other calls.

Two days later a BTP officer strolled on to speak to me & he was told in no uncertain terms to go away.

I subsequently put in official complaints to both local police & the BTP, one year on several email responses spouting ‘political rubbish’ I’ve given up.

We were told if you have a real issue call 999, other colleagues had told me similar stories of passing to BTP to no avail.

Sorry gone a bit off the BTP thread by mentioning local force but felt relevant.
Surely the local police should have attended?
 

Scott1

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Ok fair enough, I would imagine it would be the local police rather than BTP if anyone turned up?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==


Surely the local police should have attended?
In my experience local police try desperately to get BTP to take the job even when it's clear they have no hope of getting to the job.
 

Horizon22

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I was assaulted working on my own at a Sussex station on a late, I managed to call 999 who said they would contact BTP, long story short no sign of the local police or the BTP but…….

3 hours later I got a call from BTP asking if I was ok & they couldn’t come as were busy 30 miles away, I put the phone down & ignored other calls.

Two days later a BTP officer strolled on to speak to me & he was told in no uncertain terms to go away.

I subsequently put in official complaints to both local police & the BTP, one year on several email responses spouting ‘political rubbish’ I’ve given up.

We were told if you have a real issue call 999, other colleagues had told me similar stories of passing to BTP to no avail.

Sorry gone a bit off the BTP thread by mentioning local force but felt relevant.

At the very least you got a response. I can't imagine being rude was very helpful, although appreciate it was distressing to go through. Unfortunately the state of the BTP is like much of the rest of the police force (and arguably country) in terms of morale, staffing shortages and capacity.
 

pdeaves

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It would be more manageable and less of a waste of other people's time if the police force, whichever one it doesn't matter, said up front 'we aren't coming', rather than leaving people 'hanging on' in hope for no reason.
 

Ivor

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Ok fair enough, I would imagine it would be the local police rather than BTP if anyone turned up?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==


Surely the local police should have attended?
You would think so.
At the very least you got a response. I can't imagine being rude was very helpful, although appreciate it was distressing to go through. Unfortunately the state of the BTP is like much of the rest of the police force (and arguably country) in terms of morale, staffing shortages and capacity.
With respect a phone call 3 hours later & attending two days later doesn’t cut it, that’s not a response to my mind.

I was ‘slightly aggrieved’ yes especially after taking a right hook when I wasn’t looking & a tirade of blows that followed from 5 ferals.

I make no apologies for being cheesed off especially with the handling of my subsequent complaints.
 

Scott1

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At the very least you got a response. I can't imagine being rude was very helpful, although appreciate it was distressing to go through. Unfortunately the state of the BTP is like much of the rest of the police force (and arguably country) in terms of morale, staffing shortages and capacity.
3 hours after a kicking is not a response.
 

RPI

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Taunton actually has two BTP based there now!
 

Horizon22

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3 hours after a kicking is not a response.

It is a response, although not a satisfactory one. I've known assaults with no follow up whatsoever. That's the benchmark that I've got in my mind
 

jamesst

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I must admit in my patch civil police are very good at turning up to incidents, even on the railway. Btp not so much...
 
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Is there really a need for BTP at all in its current form? I understand there is some unique training to go on tracks etc after an accident ,but for everyday matters such as fights and fare dodgers ,the local plod should be absolutely picking this up . There isn't a uniquely BTP way of breaking up a fight.
 

LowLevel

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Is there really a need for BTP at all in its current form? I understand there is some unique training to go on tracks etc after an accident ,but for everyday matters such as fights and fare dodgers ,the local plod should be absolutely picking this up . There isn't a uniquely BTP way of breaking up a fight.
I think so - they prioritise railway issues in a way the locals never would. Basic fare evaders aren't of much interest to them and nor would they be to the local police, though repeat or aggravated offenders are.

Things like messy fatalities are best dealt with by organisations who can properly support those involved.
 

Neo9320

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Taunton actually has two BTP based there now!
I was just about to mention this. The BTP office is on Taunton station. There always seems to be at least 2 officers in there when I go past, and often the cars are parked up outside the station.
 

antharro

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I had need of the BTP once on a Weymouth train from Waterloo. They passed the job on to the locals who met the train at Winchester. The offenders were given a VERY brief chat and told to not continue. Or course as soon as the train moved on the antisocial behaviour continued. Completely useless. I filed a complaint and they agreed they hadn't handled the situation properly and apologised.
 

Ivor

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I had need of the BTP once on a Weymouth train from Waterloo. They passed the job on to the locals who met the train at Winchester. The offenders were given a VERY brief chat and told to not continue. Or course as soon as the train moved on the antisocial behaviour continued. Completely useless. I filed a complaint and they agreed they hadn't handled the situation properly and apologised.
I’m shocked they held their hands up & you got an apology :rolleyes:
 

winks

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Shame that BTP doesn’t have many “boots on the ground” outside London. However Manc Picc had at least 7/8 BTP patrol cars parked outside last time I was there so they must have a large no. of officers in Manchester.

The BBC “Railcops” series from 2004 showed a side to BTP which most people these days would class as heavy handed or old school.
 

fgwrich

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Is there really a need for BTP at all in its current form? I understand there is some unique training to go on tracks etc after an accident ,but for everyday matters such as fights and fare dodgers ,the local plod should be absolutely picking this up . There isn't a uniquely BTP way of breaking up a fight.

I think so - they prioritise railway issues in a way the locals never would. Basic fare evaders aren't of much interest to them and nor would they be to the local police, though repeat or aggravated offenders are.

Things like messy fatalities are best dealt with by organisations who can properly support those involved.

Lose BTP and you lose a lot of specialist areas. BTP officers certainly do receive some degree of trackside training (though sadly use of fantastic information systems like Realtime Trains isn't, and hence you have a lot of officers using Ann already overworked control room), and I can fully assure you that local forces will not be interested in doing, or taking on, half the jobs BTP does - revenue related, criminal damage etc. Not only that, but despite the governments bluff about recruiting 20,000 officers (to home office forces only - BTP is not one of them - and in effect replacing more than 20,000 cut by... the conservatives), a lot of home office forces are still under pressure to make cutbacks. They wont want the hassle, and additional cost, that training officers to BTP standard would bring. Of course, having an officer being able to do everything sounds ideal, but it just wouldn't be practical, time or cost effective to do such a thing*.

*For example, BTP officers investigate their own allocated crimes, some home office forces do the same, my local one doesn't. The consequence of this is that these officers have more time to do response jobs, but the force has its own investigation team, which costs more to run. And in an age where the treasury controls nearly everything...
 

the sniper

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...and I can fully assure you that local forces will not be interested in doing, or taking on, half the jobs BTP does - revenue related, criminal damage etc.

I think this is an important point that people don't really appreciate when this subject comes up. The locals aren't coming to any job just over a ticket. And particularly CID and OSUs, involved in stuff like graffiti and cable theft.
 
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