GTR FRAUD INVESTIGATION - Suspected Evasion

[Egg Centric]

Have you got a credit card? If not then unless you have a bad credit history, you might be surprised how big a limit you would be given on a graduate job.

You definitely should balance whether how much you "care" about a very minor criminal conviction that will be spent within a year though. Enhanced DBS suggests that it might be pretty important but not necessarily a show stopper.

Also are you genuinely unable to raise 4k or unable to raise it without "shame"? Could you borrow from relatives, for example, if you came clean?

 

[ADHappySad]

I sent a detailed explanation of how I can’t afford it what now

 

[Haywain]

I sent a detailed explanation of how I can’t afford it what now

Check your contract of employment to find out when you need to tell your employer about your impending prosecution.

 

[WesternLancer]

I sent a detailed explanation of how I can’t afford it what now

1) Wait for them to reply and see what they say.

2) see what your employer hr handbook / intranet says about convictions should you need to do that if it went to court or even if they want to know before it went to court. But you probably don’t need to contact HR about it until you actually receive court prosecution paperwork

3) talk to any trusted friends or family about potentially borrowing money from them

Of course you may have already done those things as it’s been suggested up thread.

 

[ADHappySad]

Why would I need to tell my job at all can’t I just keep it to myself

 

[WesternLancer]

Why would I need to tell my job at all can’t I just keep it to myself

This is why you need to check your work contract!!! If that contract states that you must do so, then you must do so. Because by then not telling them you’ve breached that contract and open yourself to dismissal. And dismissal for something like this means it becomes harder to get another job because the next employer often wants a reference or asks the previous employer why you left - and even if they don't give much info away in a reference you don't want them telling the next employer you were for example 'dismissed for a breach of contract'

Most workplaces will be more concerned that you tried to cover this up by not telling them (if they find out) than they would if you told them you had been prosecuted for a ticket evasion offence (just like you might have to tell you workplace if you were prosecuted for speeding / dangerous driving / not having a TV licence or any number of other crimes you may think are minor)

Criminal records are in the public domain (local newspapers often routinely print lists of people who have been convicted in court - their names and addresses) - in a digital age it's easy for your employer to find out stuff - you do not want them to find out from someone else if you were required to tell them yourself.

Try a google search for 'when should i declare a criminal conviction'

 

[Haywain]

Why would I need to tell my job at all can’t I just keep it to myself

If you are subject to enhanced DBS it is highly likely that you are bound to tell your employer of a conviction at the very least. You may well have a duty to tell them about a prosecution, or even an investigation of a criminal matter (which is where you are now). For many employers, it is a specific offence to fail to do so.

 

[AlterEgo]

Why would I need to tell my job at all can’t I just keep it to myself

If you are convicted you are probably obliged to do this, but you need to read your contract of employment and act in accordance with it. With all due respect you are an adult and need to take responsibility. As it is, you are lucky you chose the railway to defraud £4000 from. If you do that to most companies the police simply knock on your door, or come to your workplace, or pull you over and arrest you.

 

[jumble]

In terms of a reduction in the amount owing, it's clear what's in it for you but what is in it for the train company? The answer is nothing. You really need to appreciate that there is a victim in this and it isn't you.

Genuine Question because I don't know
What happens next if the OP goes to court and pleads guilty only to the offence that they have been caught for and simply refuses to comment on all the unproven journeys and then maybe get fined say £500 which goes to the government and compensation of say £100 and the criminal record
If £100 is all the money GTR are going to get then its a bit of a pyrrhic victory for GTR if they could have trousered £2000?

 

[Haywain]

Genuine Question because I don't know
What happens next if the OP goes to court and pleads guilty only to the offence that they have been caught for and simply refuses to comment on all the unproven journeys and then maybe get fined say £500 which goes to the government and compensation of say £100 and the criminal record
If £100 is all the money GTR are going to get then its a bit of a pyrrhic victory for GTR if they could have trousered £2000?

Well, after a conviction GTR will be in a stronger position to take civil action against the OP to recover the remainder (they will have both the conviction and the OP's acceptance of having taken those journeys), and the OP will have the criminal record they seem to be very keen to avoid. I think in that situation the pyrrhic victory would be the OP's.

 

[AlterEgo]

Genuine Question because I don't know
What happens next if the OP goes to court and pleads guilty only to the offence that they have been caught for and simply refuses to comment on all the unproven journeys and then maybe get fined say £500 which goes to the government and compensation of say £100 and the criminal record
If £100 is all the money GTR are going to get then its a bit of a pyrrhic victory for GTR if they could have trousered £2000?

GTR could then simply pursue the remainder via civil means.

 

[jumble]

GTR could then simply pursue the remainder via civil means.

Well, after a conviction GTR will be in a stronger position to take civil action against the OP to recover the remainder (they will have both the conviction and the OP's acceptance of having taken those journeys), and the OP will have the criminal record they seem to be very keen to avoid. I think in that situation the pyrrhic victory would be the OP's.

Hmm I did say the OP might simply refuses to comment on all the unproven journeys ( ie no acceptance)
From other posts elsewhere the perceived wisdom is that the civil route is not going to get GTR the 4K as it seems that they cannot charge anytime and have to take into account fares already paid
In any case if the OP cannot raise 4K before the 6 months is up and they have said they cant and we are 3-4 months into this then I fear prosecution is inevitable
( As I think it unlikely GTR are to entertain accepting a payment plan that goes beyond the 6 month limit as then they would be chasing the OP if they failed pony up)

 

[Haywain]

I did say the OP might simply refuses to comment on all the unproven journeys ( ie no acceptance)

They already have done, and they were caught in the act.

From other posts elsewhere the perceived wisdom is that the civil route is not going to get GTR the 4K as it seems that they cannot charge anytime and have to take into account fares already paid

We don't know how the £4,000 figure is made up, and therefore should not assume there is any potential to have the figure reduced. GTR are noted, over many years, for only claiming the difference in unpaid fares. The only thing they would definitely miss out on in a civil case is an admin fee.

 

[ADHappySad]

My setttlement request for moving the lump sum deposit of 1500 was rejected they are demanding an upfront cost immediately

 

[AlterEgo]

My setttlement request for moving the lump sum deposit of 1500 was rejected they are demanding an upfront cost immediately

Do you mean you proposed to pay a deposit at some later time?

 

[Haywain]

My setttlement request for moving the lump sum deposit of 1500 was rejected they are demanding an upfront cost immediately

Then I'm afraid you are going to have to work out how to raise it.

 

[ADHappySad]

If it gets passed to gtr prosecutors can I get a out of court settlement opportunity later down the line or will it be straight to court

 

[Haywain]

If it gets passed to gtr prosecutors can I get a out of court settlement opportunity later down the line or will it be straight to court

You'll get the same offer that you've got now. If anything, they'll up the admin fee because you are costing them increasing amounts of money.

 

[ADHappySad]

If it gets passed onto gtr prosecutors department will I be able to negotiate it later down the line

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: Yesterday at 14:34 ==

Will it buy me time as right now I can’t afford the settlement they are offering me

 

[AlterEgo]

Have you tried raising the funds from the conventional ways listed upthread?

 

[dosxuk]

Will it buy me time as right now I can’t afford the settlement they are offering me

Not by any meaningful amount. The latest they would then accept a settlement would be the arranged court date, and they would almost certainly want the full amount and paid immediately.

 

[WesternLancer]

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: Yesterday at 14:34 ==

Will it buy me time as right now I can’t afford the settlement they are offering me

If you request in court hearing yes. But not vast amount. Several weeks or maybe a month or so I suspect

 

[ADHappySad]

can I buy myself more time to pay this before I get a criminal record

 

[WesternLancer]

Not by any meaningful amount. The latest they would then accept a settlement would be the arranged court date, and they would almost certainly want the full amount and paid immediately.

But does the court require past evaded fares to be paid as part of the sentence? Or just the court fine which will be much lower especially if income taken into consideration

 

[ADHappySad]

So dread

 

[iamraymond]

Providing you have an existing credit history (I.e. a phone contract). Your bank will quite likely be happy to open a credit account to pay for it. Some even come with 0% interest as an introductory offer.

This will enable you to pay the money to GWR, and then pay it in monthly instalments back to the credit provider (it may cost more due to interest, but will avoid prosecution).

 

[AlterEgo]

But does the court require past evaded fares to be paid as part of the sentence? Or just the court fine which will be much lower especially if income taken into consideration

It depends if the historic offences are taken into consideration. But either way the OP runs the risk of then also being sued in the county court for the rest.

 

[Haywain]

can I buy myself more time to pay this before I get a criminal record

You've been offered an instalment plan, what the hell more do you think you should get? I know this is blunt but you are being offered very reasonable terms and still think you're being hard done by. My you really seem to be struggling with the idea that you are not the victim here.

 

[Blaine]

Snap their hand off, they've offered you a great deal.

 

[WesternLancer]

So dread

I think you’ve done well to get them to offer you any sort of instalment plan.
Is it simply impossible for you to manage that offer?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: Yesterday at 18:31 ==

It depends if the historic offences are taken into consideration. But either way the OP runs the risk of then also being sued in the county court for the rest.

Thanks.
But I guess the wheels of the county court process would be slow and instalments would be possible for that.

This would be really worth trying to achieve if avoiding court is important for you.