Does it say anything more than "the correct ticket", e.g. claiming that Southern or Thameslink only tickets aren't valid?
The correct ticket is any ticket valid for travel between those stations at that time, regardless of any purported brand restrictions.
If GTR are giving refunds to anyone who has these types of tickets, why are they defending themselves in court? Surely the very fact that they pay up every time someone complains is an admission they’re in the wrong…
I suspect the proportion of people who seek refunds is tiny.
Indeed, the automatic announcements go something like 'I'm sorry to announce that the 0730 train to x is cancelled. Passengers for x, y and z, the next fastest service will be the 0728 to b. Please make sure you have the right ticket for this train.'
I still have doubt about using a ticket for the "wrong brand" on a Gatwick Express train as it won't pass the "man on the bus" test in court if challenged - the only argument here is GTR doesn't have power to brand-restrict the tickets in the NRCoT.
Really? "Sorry sir, your Thameslink ticket isn't valid; I will charge you a penalty fare. Here is your form, issued by Thameslink and here is your bank receipt from Thameslink "
That's a major problem by itself and it's far from the only one!
Yes there is a huge premium for Gatwick to London Victoria; it's absolutely clear that it is Gatwick to Victoria which is overpriced, and not the other way around!
That is no doubt the sort of argument that GTR will be making in their defence against the class action claim.
And the latter fare is valid on the Gatwick Express from Brighton to London Victoria on the Gatwick Express anyway since it is routed any permitted with a +.
Interesting; perhaps someone could get a photo of this.
People who insist refunds are refunded so until the collective competition claim came along, there wasn't any legal challenge.
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The Any Permitted fares are clearly overpriced, especially for London to Gatwick but this is also true of London to Brighton. Any Permitted fares from Brighton to North London destinations can be cheaper than just to London! Also there is no reason why the Not Underground fares cannot continue to exist and these are no more expensive than Thameslink Only.
In theory they are no different to the introduction of TOC specific fares, yes.
Whilst the DfT might ultimately make such a change, that wouldn't retrospectively regularise their and GTR's actions.
That is much less of an issue now. The Southern and Thameslink services also now run with spare seats and the Gatwick Express services carry more people from Brighton and any other stations they stop at. Gatwick Express is nowhere near as wasteful as when it ran 4tph Victoria to Gatwick and the capacity issue has essentially gone away.
Disgusting!
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I'm sure GTR wanted this situation gone away as much as everyone else. The differential fares were all meant to be withdrawn as part of the TSGN implementation under the franchise change but it became politically unacceptable for the DfT to authorise it because of the London Bridge issues shortly after the franchise was put together.
Unles you found a different Gatwick to london thameslink anytime return than I did, they are routed "NOT underground"
Out of curiosity, what london bridge issues are you referring to? a quick google search only seems to lead to articles about the state of (dis)repair of bridges in london
I suspect the OP is referring to tickets issued to cluster Q060 (that contains Kentish Town, West Hampstead etc) which aren't issued with Not Underground restrictions.
At the start of 2015, which is when the through Thameslink route was diverted away from London Bridge there was significant disruption to services into London Bridge. Subsequently there were issues with the initial Thameslink operation due to staff training.
The Any Permitted fares on many flows would have to reduce if there was going to be any form of harmonisation; there is no getting away from the fact that Gatwick to London in particular is incredibly overpriced.
Let's not forget that all engineering works posters list all the company brands but don't list any other companies whose trains might also run on the lines.
