GTR 365 to storage

[Class465fan]

Quick, get them cleared for Edinburgh- Glasgow.

Scotrail may need them in place of the 385 was if they don’t sort the visibility issues.

Or they could replace the 318s?

 

[Class 170101]

What route in the GA network are they clear to run on?

Think they are actually allowed to run between Broxbourne and Shepreth Branch Jn. Obviously they do Shepreth Branch Jn to Kings Lynn.

 

[Class465fan]

thanks

 

[Domh245]

Or they could replace the 318s?

Other than the fact that the 318s (and the Glasgow suburban area as a whole) work on the basis of 3/6 car trains, and reforming the 365s probably won't be easy or cheap.

 

[Class465fan]

Is there anywhere else besides from the WCML, Northern rail or Scotrail for them to go to without having to receive expensive modifications?

 

[SEClass375]

Unless by expensive you mean putting shoes on them, I would like them to replace the 465(/9)s that do the Tunbridge Wells stoppers which can only dream of doing 90mph let alone 100.

 

[Class465fan]

Would like to see that happen.

 

[KingJ]

Unless by expensive you mean putting shoes on them, I would like them to replace the 465(/9)s that do the Tunbridge Wells stoppers which can only dream of doing 90mph let alone 100.

Will be interesting to see if any of of the bidders for the new franchise suggest this in their bids...

 

[Failed Unit]

Is there anywhere else besides from the WCML, Northern rail or Scotrail for them to go to without having to receive expensive modifications?

In theory any 25kV railway. However all stock is accounted for by new orders. So unless we get some stunning growth it is unlikely. Maybe a clever EMT bid?

My joke about Scotrail is they could get desperate. 170s going. 385s not arriving. Likely to happen no. Driver training etc. Give Scotrail the 700s and we keep the 365s. Not as if the Cambridge stopped is going anywhere near the core soon.

 

[D365]

As I’ve said countless times the 365s can be considered AC only, and are very limited as to their future scope. Especially taking into account the plethora of newer fleets.

 

[Class465fan]

When's the next movement to storage expected to take place?

 

[170401]

Quick, get them cleared for Edinburgh- Glasgow.

Scotrail may need them in place of the 385 was if they don’t sort the visibility issues.

If they were on the ball, they could extend the wires up to Dundee quickly and when they finish using them for 385 cover they could migrate them onto the Queen st - Dundee stoppers!!!

 

[D365]

The 365s? They’re not going to get cleared quickly.

 

[whhistle]

Give Scotrail the 700s and we keep the 365s.

Why make such a silly suggestion?


This is where I fail to understand our railway.
We put stupid design restrictions in place "just in case" but never actually fulfil the "just in case" clause. For example putting pantograph wells into 3rd rail stock. Yes, flexibility is great but it's so unlikely they'll ever see pantographs, it it really worth doing?

Surely the loading gauge has a maximum everywhere on UK metals, and so any train within that range should be able to go anywhere? I know there are small differences, but all trains fit within a certain "tunnel".

Alternatively, it shouldn't be huge jobs to clear routes - surely all trains fit within the maximum gauge for track alignment / tunnels / platforms and such.
Not suite sure I understand, that if they don't, why are different routes so different - I thought that was what the loading gauge was supposed to sort out?

 

[Failed Unit]

Why make such a silly suggestion?

It wasn’t serious as if you read the whole post I think many noticed. But the logic was the 700s are Siemens units if Scotrail are desperate then they may get them into use quicker. (Or of course they could have no similarities to their Siemens units at all).

It does amaze me the lack of humour of some people on the forum.

It is not as if anything other than keeping existing trains can get Scotrail out of their hole before May. (Something which northern quite rightly will never allow)

 

[bramling]

Why make such a silly suggestion?


This is where I fail to understand our railway.
We put stupid design restrictions in place "just in case" but never actually fulfil the "just in case" clause. For example putting pantograph wells into 3rd rail stock. Yes, flexibility is great but it's so unlikely they'll ever see pantographs, it it really worth doing?

Surely the loading gauge has a maximum everywhere on UK metals, and so any train within that range should be able to go anywhere? I know there are small differences, but all trains fit within a certain "tunnel".

Alternatively, it shouldn't be huge jobs to clear routes - surely all trains fit within the maximum gauge for track alignment / tunnels / platforms and such.
Not suite sure I understand, that if they don't, why are different routes so different - I thought that was what the loading gauge was supposed to sort out?

To be fair, the 365s have worked on DC - the first 16x units spent the first few years of their life working for Connex South Eastern. 365502 was even temporarily hired to WAGN for a short while after the Potters Bar derailment.

The inability to easily revert to DC seems to be more the result of modifications done when the units were transferred to WAGN in the mid 2000s. However, this view doesn't seem to be entirely reflected in documentation originating from their owners, which still clearly describes them as dual voltage capable. A lot of course would come down to cost, in other words would it be worth a lengthy and costly period of development work when other DC (e.g. 458s) fleets may be more readily available.

 

[whhistle]

It does amaze me the lack of humour of some people on the forum.

I just didn't see the humour.
But then I'd just come from the thread on rebuilding the 370 for HS2... as a serious suggestion.
Happy to admit I get tired of people making stupid suggestions that they think are so likely, it's worth posting.

 

[AM9]

It wasn’t serious as if you read the whole post I think many noticed. But the logic was the 700s are Siemens units if Scotrail are desperate then they may get them into use quicker. (Or of course they could have no similarities to their Siemens units at all).

It does amaze me the lack of humour of some people on the forum.

It is not as if anything other than keeping existing trains can get Scotrail out of their hole before May. (Something which northern quite rightly will never allow)

It was yet another 'broken record' post about class 700s. Soon, those class 365s that aren't converted into tin foil, will be settled into their new (minimal) role and the 700s will settle down for the next 30+ years on TL (including GN) services. Yes, these posts are fun to read.

 

[Failed Unit]

I just didn't see the humour.
But then I'd just come from the thread on rebuilding the 370 for HS2... as a serious suggestion.
Happy to admit I get tired of people making stupid suggestions that they think are so likely, it's worth posting.

Your point on however on you post that the railway has no plan B is true.

The 365s are in store with nothing to do. But if we did say let’s get them in service in Scotland it would take months. No chance before May. (No idea if it would even be possible before August).

But even if you look at stock cleared for the route. Mk2 / 3 coaches and loco. Again we have no way of making this happen quickly. So we have a problem on the route with no easy solution.

I remember when the mk4s and 155s with withdrawn we saw some very interesting solutions. (321s / 317s on IC journeys). The 155s got the loco hauled stock out. Does the railway have the capability to react quickly to the 385 problem any more. I digress from the topic however. But the 365s are in store but can’t really be used for anything quickly.

 

[bramling]

It was yet another 'broken record' post about class 700s. Soon, those class 365s that aren't converted into tin foil, will be settled into their new (minimal) role and the 700s will settle down for the next 30+ years on TL (including GN) services. Yes, these posts are fun to read.

Like the posts along the lines of "700s will never get tables until a mid-life refurb?".

 

[Failed Unit]

It was yet another 'broken record' post about class 700s. Soon, those class 365s that aren't converted into tin foil, will be settled into their new (minimal) role and the 700s will settle down for the next 30+ years on TL (including GN) services. Yes, these posts are fun to read.

?

Did the post actually direct any criticism to the 700s or just state Scotrail had Siemens units. Are the 385s not desiro city derivatives? Therefore more similar to what Scotrail have than the 365s? You reading what you want to read?

Irrespective i think I have cleared this up with the poster involved and they understand it wasn’t serious.

 

[Hadders]

To be fair, the 365s have worked on DC - the first 16x units spent the first few years of their life working for Connex South Eastern. 365502 was even temporarily hired to WAGN for a short while after the Potters Bar derailment.

The inability to easily revert to DC seems to be more the result of modifications done when the units were transferred to WAGN in the mid 2000s. However, this view doesn't seem to be entirely reflected in documentation originating from their owners, which still clearly describes them as dual voltage capable. A lot of course would come down to cost, in other words would it be worth a lengthy and costly period of development work when other DC (e.g. 458s) fleets may be more readily available.

Wasn't a DC wiring loom (kept as an example in case of conversion back to DC) lost during a depot clear out in FCC days? Probably thrown away along with the floppy discs used to updated the original PIS system.

 

[Class465fan]

It's been said that "there is at least one set with Cross Country, which operated between Cambridge and Birmingham." Find that hard to believe that as they're not clear to go to Birmingham right?

 

[jamieP]

It's been said that "there is at least one set with Cross Country, which operated between Cambridge and Birmingham." Find that hard to believe that as they're not clear to go to Birmingham right?

A 365?

 

[Class465fan]

https://www.flickr.com/photos/harrisondethridge/39052350805/in/pool-networkers_and_desiros/
Here's the link

 

[jamieP]

https://www.flickr.com/photos/harrisondethridge/39052350805/in/pool-networkers_and_desiros/
Here's the link

Might struggle without any wires.

 

[Class465fan]

That's what i was thinking. How can it operate between Cambridge and Birmingham if half of the lines (or shall i say most) Cross Country run on lacks Overhead wires?

 

[cactustwirly]

It's been said that "there is at least one set with Cross Country, which operated between Cambridge and Birmingham." Find that hard to believe that as they're not clear to go to Birmingham right?

There's a distinct lack of wires between Cambridge & Birmingham...

 

[theblackwatch]

Might struggle without any wires.

Fast run out of Peterborough then coast? Maybe one for the 'Fantasy' threads....

 

[43096]

There's a distinct lack of wires between Cambridge & Birmingham...

Go via East Coast, North London line and West Coast. Where's the issue?