Group Bourdon Tool

[greatkingrat]

It is a balance between the two. Going purely for accuracy and ignoring speed is just as dangerous as rushing through it. There are plenty of people who have made no mistakes and still failed (particularly with TOCs that require an enhanced score).

 

[mw1967]

I'm doing the paper gb test. How long should I be timing myself for?

If i remember correctly we had 5 sheets with 2 mins allowed on each sheet. For info, i got to about line 9/10 in each sheet, (im guessing) with 0 mistakes or omissions and passed.

 

[shorts]

ok, so had another go and tried to do it a little more accurately. do you (any of you readers) reckon this will get me a pass?
total cells 1441
targets omitted 1
marked incorrect 0

row fluctuation 3.79

any feedback would be greatly appreciated

 

[mw1967]

ok, so had another go and tried to do it a little more accurately. do you (any of you readers) reckon this will get me a pass?
total cells 1441
targets omitted 1
marked incorrect 0

row fluctuation 3.79

any feedback would be greatly appreciated

When I was practising this before my assessment I was getting about 1200 cells with 0 errors 0 omissions. I found if I tried to go faster then mistakes crept in. So I knew my pace and stuck to it during the test and passed. I would guess your result looks like a pass to me. 1 omission is good going but I'd strive to get 0, even if it means slowing down a touch.

 

[paepo]

ok, so had another go and tried to do it a little more accurately. do you (any of you readers) reckon this will get me a pass?
total cells 1441
targets omitted 1
marked incorrect 0

row fluctuation 3.79

any feedback would be greatly appreciated

Is your assessment on paper or computer?
If it's on paper then get them printed off and do them that way. It makes sense to make your practice as close to the real thing as possible. Put a repeating timer of 2 mins on your phone then work through 5 sheets changing when the timer goes off.

 

[shorts]

Is your assessment on paper or computer?
If it's on paper then get them printed off and do them that way. It makes sense to make your practice as close to the real thing as possible. Put a repeating timer of 2 mins on your phone then work through 5 sheets changing when the timer goes off.

thanks, thats a good idea are they all done on paper then on assessment day? i would imagine it will be harder on paper. ill give it a go. after looking at all the other tests, im now more worried about the observational test :/

 

[paepo]

thanks, thats a good idea are they all done on paper then on assessment day? i would imagine it will be harder on paper. ill give it a go. after looking at all the other tests, im now more worried about the observational test :/

Paper is easier, or at least that's how I found it. It felt the same to do but I found I could do a couple more rows. 2 or 3 practices and that's enough to let you see its simple enough.
The assessments themselves aren't difficult at all, it's the build up and thought of losing 1 of tour 2 lives and a 6 month wait before being able to resit that adds pressure and makes it seem like it's more than it really is. (That's how I felt regarding them anyway)
Best of luck, stay calm and I'm sure you'll be fine.

 

[TDK]

Paper is easier, or at least that's how I found it. It felt the same to do but I found I could do a couple more rows. 2 or 3 practices and that's enough to let you see its simple enough.
The assessments themselves aren't difficult at all, it's the build up and thought of losing 1 of tour 2 lives and a 6 month wait before being able to resit that adds pressure and makes it seem like it's more than it really is. (That's how I felt regarding them anyway)
Best of luck, stay calm and I'm sure you'll be fine.

You get a lot more pressure doing the job and if you mess up your well earned job may be at risk, if a candidate can't handle the pressure of the GB what would be like with a fire on their train?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

ok, so had another go and tried to do it a little more accurately. do you (any of you readers) reckon this will get me a pass?
total cells 1441
targets omitted 1
marked incorrect 0

row fluctuation 3.79

any feedback would be greatly appreciated

The one omission would possibly be a fail if you only had 1000 total cells with no omissions it would possibly be a pass.

 

[drazky]

........

 

[TDK]

Guys any idea how many rows are on sheet on real test
Usually the the print out from the well known "dot tool" has 26 rows and 25 group of dots on every row.
Is the real test on the day is the same?

It's irrelevant how many there are as you will never complete a page in the time, I wouldn't worry about it.

 

[drazky]

........

 

[TDK]

hi TDK,
Thank you for your reply!
By the way this is the second time I received the same answer from you
I do not worry at all just quriosity especially because this tool is widely available online .
So if anyone knows the real test sheets rows, will appreciate an answer!.Despite what people think or experienced this is probably the easiest part of the assessment...

I am not sure of the amount of lines per page and, yes, this is the easiest part, the most difficult are the interviews

 

[Patters1983]

Hi guys,
Been practicing this dot test, managed to get down to:
Target omitted:5
Marked incorrect: none
Total cells:1456
Rows:55
Does anyone think that this is good enough to pass?
Thank you

 

[CreamODcrop]

Hi guys,
Been practicing this dot test, managed to get down to:
Target omitted:5
Marked incorrect: none
Total cells:1456
Rows:55
Does anyone think that this is good enough to pass?
Thank you

To be honest with you keep practising 5 sounds a lot to me.
My advice if you aren't already is to say how many in your head kinda out loud.
5 sheets 2 mins per sheet then swap, do this every day it will improve.
Soon you will manage to get no targets omitted.

 

[TDK]

Hi guys,
Been practicing this dot test, managed to get down to:
Target omitted:5
Marked incorrect: none
Total cells:1456
Rows:55
Does anyone think that this is good enough to pass?
Thank you

People just don't listen. Carry on going fast and fail the test

 

[CreamODcrop]

People just don't listen. Carry on going fast and fail the test[/QUOTE

Yes, accuracy is paramount you wanna get all if you can.
Although you can't just do one line 100 percent so there is an element of speed. That is what will separate you

 

[Patters1983]

Thanks for the feedback been practicing and managed to get down to just 1 omission and no errors whilst keep the amount of cells above 1300.
I'll keep on practicing I know I need to slow down hopefully that will eradicate all the omissions fingers crossed!

Cheers again

 

[TDK]

Thanks for the feedback been practicing and managed to get down to just 1 omission and no errors whilst keep the amount of cells above 1300.
I'll keep on practicing I know I need to slow down hopefully that will eradicate all the omissions fingers crossed!

Cheers again

I still feel that practising the test is giving a false result. If you have to practise for weeks to get 1000+ cells with no omissions/errors you are not suitable for the job.

 

[shorts]

Can anyone tell me if the paper version has the same dot layout and size as the group bourdon software to use on your computer? I can easily get around 1600 cells with no mistakes on the computer, but printed off some bigger sized examples and started missing some. Thanks x

 

[CreamODcrop]

I still feel that practising the test is giving a false result. If you have to practise for weeks to get 1000+ cells with no omissions/errors you are not suitable for the job.

Not necessarily... you have over 250 + hours to learn train handling.
Almost everyone Ive known practised the GBT test in fact by not practising your doing yourself an injustice.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Can anyone tell me if the paper version has the same dot layout and size as the group bourdon software to use on your computer? I can easily get around 1600 cells with no mistakes on the computer, but printed off some bigger sized examples and started missing some. Thanks x

Seem to remember was a larger sheet and smaller clusters.

 

[TDK]

Not necessarily... you have over 250 + hours to learn train handling.

But the GBT is a test to see whether someone has the natural concentration required to do the job by practicing the test for hours on end gives a false result. The test is not designed to practice it for hours on end as it is a test not something you need to learn.

 

[CreamODcrop]

But the GBT is a test to see whether someone has the natural concentration required to do the job by practicing the test for hours on end gives a false result. The test is not designed to practice it for hours on end as it is a test not something you need to learn.

I see where your coming from although you get sent practice papers anyway albeit slightly different and easier.

Unfortunately I believe you should practice nowadays to keep you ahead of the competition.

You may go in without practicing and do really well but not score as high as someone who did

It's very easy to tell when handling if someone has the ability or not including concentration.

 

[dannyphantom]

HI there

I have been using the software for a few days now, but only today my antivirus picked up a trojan in the tool: HEUR/QVM17.0.Malware.Gen

anyone else had this, and is there an alternative download location?

Cheers
Dannyphantom

 

[TDK]

I see where your coming from although you get sent practice papers anyway albeit slightly different and easier.

Unfortunately I believe you should practice nowadays to keep you ahead of the competition.

You may go in without practicing and do really well but not score as high as someone who did

It's very easy to tell when handling if someone has the ability or not including concentration.

Indeed and there are many now who do not cut it when it comes down to the training and to be honest this never happened before the availability and the electronic aid that people can get. The worst thing is that there are people out there who would make excellent candidates and they are being knocked back because there are readily available practice tests for nearly all the assessments. But as you say, if you want to be ahead of the competition and want a chance to get a shot at the role you have to do what everyone else is doing I suppose but it doesn't make it right.

 

[E&W Lucas]

People just don't listen. Carry on going fast and fail the test[/QUOTE

Yes, accuracy is paramount you wanna get all if you can.
Although you can't just do one line 100 percent so there is an element of speed. That is what will separate you

Please listen to what you have been told. Accuracy is everything. The acceptable number of mistakes is substantially less than you are indicating above. Think very, very low single figures.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I see where your coming from although you get sent practice papers anyway albeit slightly different and easier.

Unfortunately I believe you should practice nowadays to keep you ahead of the competition.

You may go in without practicing and do really well but not score as high as someone who did

It's very easy to tell when handling if someone has the ability or not including concentration.

Speaking to friends who still work for some of the major training operators, they have seen an increase in the number of unsuitable candidates during training, and a spike in the number of new drivers having incidents soon after qualification.
The tests are there to see if someone is capable of being trained. Coaching someone to pass the process is pointless, as the unforgiving nature of the job will soon find out those that should not be there.

 

[DunfordBridge]

I believe there is a document, the T628, from the RSSB, which recommended the replacement of the Group Bourdon test by a combination of the present Tea-Occ and another test known as the SIMKAP. This was as part of the process to determine which tests would form part of the present testing system. As far as I can gather, there seemed to be perceived inconsistencies with the GB test as a measure of attention and vigilance. I think this is where the WAFV test came into being.

 

[kelv]

A question I asked in another thread is, is this test an industry requirement or a test developed for recruitment ? re: OTM Driver/Fitter job where there may not be many applicants deemed suitable before any testing comes into it, due to not having the required mechanical skills i.e. apprenticeship

 

[E&W Lucas]

A question I asked in another thread is, is this test an industry requirement or a test developed for recruitment ? re: OTM Driver/Fitter job where there may not be many applicants deemed suitable before any testing comes into it, due to not having the required mechanical skills i.e. apprenticeship

Industry requirement. The whole psychometric process forms the first part of a driver's competency. A test to determine suitability to undertake training for the role.
Nothing to do with keeping the numbers down, although it does this quite nicely!

 

[Sussexdrummer]

My advice on the Group Bourdon Test is not to worry.

As others have indicated, make sure you prep for the MMI and don't spend all your time on the boredom test.

I downloaded the app and was only managing to do about 500 cells with a couple of errors. I got an enhanced pass on my actual test.

I would recommend printing the sheets off and doing it with a pencil as opposed to on the computer unless you are confident that the TOC you have applied to does not do paper tests.

It helps to be able to recognize the various shape combinations possible with 4 dots.

I managed about a quarter of each sheet. As I said, don't sweat it, take your time and try not to panic.

 

[TDK]

My advice on the Group Bourdon Test is not to worry.

As others have indicated, make sure you prep for the MMI and don't spend all your time on the boredom test.

I downloaded the app and was only managing to do about 500 cells with a couple of errors. I got an enhanced pass on my actual test.

I would recommend printing the sheets off and doing it with a pencil as opposed to on the computer unless you are confident that the TOC you have applied to does not do paper tests.

It helps to be able to recognize the various shape combinations possible with 4 dots.

I managed about a quarter of each sheet. As I said, don't sweat it, take your time and try not to panic.

Well done drummer on your observations "squares", "diamonds" and "Y's"

I never practiced the test and got an enhanced pass, 9 lines per page and 10 on the last one but I wasn't counting the dots I was looking for the shapes, no errors or omissions to boot.