Group Bourdon Tool

[RBSN]

No nice way to say it but yes you have.

You need to have zero omitted and zero marked incorrect.

As has been said before start at a pace where you achieve this even if its only 3 or 4 lines and build up slowly.

good luck

Thanks guys. I bought the book and studied it - I passed today. So to those who are going to be doing the test, make sure to buy this book. Helped me loads!

 

[tim.tin]

I didn't use anything to pass....!

 

[alm]

Hello all...I have my assessments on Wednesday 27th May 2015 for a Depot Driver position....can anyone help with how the day develops and any further info on the tests...please reply if you have done them recently...I just want to know that my four/five hours revision/testing a day..are the actual correct tests to be doing for the big day...thanks.

 

[RBSN]

Hello all...I have my assessments on Wednesday 27th May 2015 for a Depot Driver position....can anyone help with how the day develops and any further info on the tests...please reply if you have done them recently...I just want to know that my four/five hours revision/testing a day..are the actual correct tests to be doing for the big day...thanks.

Did you receive your "what to expect" email? It should explain everything you need to know.

 

[Fred Dinenage]

I didn't use anything to pass....!

You must be very proud. Did you get a medal?

 

[TDK]

No, he passed without cheating

 

[Fred Dinenage]

Really? Are you suggesting anyone who uses revision aids is cheating? I know you've posted previously that there is too much information available online and elsewhere to help people pass. Is Google destined to be the downfall of the rail industry? And don't those who cram these tests and pass usually get found of once training begins if they lack the natural aptitude for train driving?

 

[fadster]

Hi all. I've downloaded the Zip file on page 1 but appear to have my Norton Anti Virus throwing it out when I try to install. It gladly lets me download and when I scan the file I get no flags to say it's suspect.
Anybody else had issues like this has scanning all the posts suggests nobody else has had installation problems.

Cheers, Fadster.

 

[scaper28]

Hi all. I've downloaded the Zip file on page 1 but appear to have my Norton Anti Virus throwing it out when I try to install. It gladly lets me download and when I scan the file I get no flags to say it's suspect.
Anybody else had issues like this has scanning all the posts suggests nobody else has had installation problems.

Cheers, Fadster.

turn it off -> install it -> turn back on?

 

[RBSN]

No, he passed without cheating

Cheating, huh?

Maybe people heading for the assessing centres shouldn't be given a "what to expect / run down of the tests for the day", too?

 

[TDK]

Really? Are you suggesting anyone who uses revision aids is cheating? I know you've posted previously that there is too much information available online and elsewhere to help people pass. Is Google destined to be the downfall of the rail industry? And don't those who cram these tests and pass usually get found of once training begins if they lack the natural aptitude for train driving?

If someone gets through the tests especially the GB by practicing it gives a false result. If someone gets through and isn't suitable that means someone who is and didn't practise like mad doesn't get the chance for the job. Sorry but you know my views on practising tests and recent figures are beginning to reflect that there are may new drivers now more than ever having incidents where as this never used to happen on this scale.

I feel the whole recruitment process now is a joke.

Your comment was a bit patronising to be fair to the poster about deserving a medal, as I said he passed without cheating and deserves the job more than someone else who did cheat

 

[fadster]

Hi all. I've downloaded the Zip file on page 1 but appear to have my Norton Anti Virus throwing it out when I try to install. It gladly lets me download and when I scan the file I get no flags to say it's suspect.
Anybody else had issues like this has scanning all the posts suggests nobody else has had installation problems.

Cheers, Fadster.

turn it off -> install it -> turn back on?

Hi Scaper 28. Thanks for you reply. I was aware I could briefly turn off my anti virus software. It's just that when my PC warns me of a possible risk I feel it prudent to do some research first to access the risk be fore telling it I know better. I wanted to know if anybody else had a similar issue?

Cheers, Fadster.

 

[RBSN]

...as I said he passed without cheating and deserves the job more than someone else who did cheat...

I see that as he passed without preparing. Preperation Prevents Poor Performance.

 

[TDK]

I see that as he passed without preparing. Preperation Prevents Poor Performance.

There is a line you need to draw when preparation becomes so intense that it gives a false result in the results of carefully selected assessments to decipher whether an individual is suitable for a role. You are sent material from the employer to give you an idea on what to expect. On this forum you get people asking what an individual has been asked at interview and also what answers they need to give to pass, you also get people practising the GB test for weeks on end. This test was not designed for this but to decipher whether an individual has the natural ability to concentrate on a single subject for a given period. Going back 6 odd years it was very rare that anyone failed the DM interview and now it is the hardest part, this is totally down to more people passing the assessments due to the information available online.

Statistically you would hardly ever get a candidate deemed not suitable after training or failing the final assessments but now there are many that do and once again this is down to the original recruitment of that said person.

Sorry, but anyone passing the assessments to be chucked out at DM interview is not suitable and if they had practised the tests before the assessment day for weeks on end they can only put it down to non suitability.

The word "cheat" is a bit harsh because if the material is available it will be used to get a person what they want and people will naturally get as much info as they can but people failing the interviews is down to the fact that they are just not what the company is looking for.

I have seen people on this forum whine about failing interview but if they had gone into the tests just using the material from the TOC then they would have most likely not got to the interview in the first place.

 

[Fred Dinenage]

You're right, my comment was patronising, perhaps if the poster showed a bit of humility i wouldn't have. Then again it's difficult for text to convey intent without resorting to smilies, maybe it wasn't meant to come across as conceited.

I know you used to select and interview candidates so you know what you're talking about. For my part i did little revision and that'll be reflected in my scores which will probably be poor compared to others, so be it. Might cost me a job but i think with the volume of candidates applying i'm not in with much of a chance anyway

Having worked in the gas industry ( specifically on locating and repairing uncontrolled gas escapes on gas mains and services ) for 30 years, i recognise the need for suitable candidates with a specific skill set. The rail industry has the right idea about assessing and recruiting staff, however flawed the process may be. No such testing goes on in my industry, an interview and that's all. Training for new starters is woeful, a few months now compared to a 3 year apprenticeship when i started. And profit / costs at the bottom of it all. That's why i'm trying to change my career whilst still transferring a safety critical mindset, so to speak. Safety is being compromised and people are going to get hurt.

Does the ORR have any views on the assessment process being unsuitable / requiring change?

 

[JohnC]

Sorry TDK, but I've got to totally disagree with you and this highly elitist view that you've passed it and now no one else should, which is exactly what it is.

Do you really think that concentration can't be learnt or improved upon? Granted some people may be already able to focus their attention on something more easily than others and those would be the ones with 'natural talent'. But then why stop at calling practice cheating? Is someone who has learnt concentration skills from a few months in another concentration-heavy role a cheater? How about someone who has prepared for the assessment using meditation techniques to help them focus?

The point I'm getting at is that there's a good chance that practicing the GBT or SCAAT actually helps improve concentration levels, especially through what you call 'intense preparation'. Think about it; you're sitting down and concentrating hard on something, training yourself to be better at it.

As for your statistics, I haven't looked them up, but I'd gamble that they were pulled from the ether and can't be factually backed up.

If someone gets through the tests especially the GB by practicing it gives a false result.

recent figures are beginning to reflect that there are may new drivers now more than ever having incidents where as this never used to happen on this scale.

Going back 6 odd years it was very rare that anyone failed the DM interview and now it is the hardest part, this is totally down to more people passing the assessments due to the information available onlin

Statistically you would hardly ever get a candidate deemed not suitable after training or failing the final assessments but now there are many that do and once again this is down to the original recruitment of that said person.

I feel that your posts come across as bitter. Perhaps bitter that you feel you had to rely on innate talent to get where you are, but now others have more information to draw on and therefor are able to train themselves to pass the selection process to get where they want to be.

 

[WCMLaddict]

TDK you know my view on your view

I would love to see the figures you're talking about. So far there are no figures that relate to testing. If anything, it's changes to the training course or lack of suitable instructors that should be blamed for the perceived imaginary raise of incidents amongst recent trainees. Practicing GB or any part of the assessment is at the very end of list of possible issues. At the end of the day, trainees become good drivers in 99% at school and during practical handling.

 

[Trainguy590]

I was just wondering, in the real paper test, are the groups of dots separated by by lines (ie in their own individual box) or are they all just on a plain sheet of paper with no separation?

 

[scaper28]

They aren't separated by lines but they are quite clear. It looks like like the program or if you google for the sheets

 

[TDK]

Does the ORR have any views on the assessment process being unsuitable / requiring change?

Currently possibly not but it is only a matter of time.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

TDK you know my view on your view

I would love to see the figures you're talking about. So far there are no figures that relate to testing. If anything, it's changes to the training course or lack of suitable instructors that should be blamed for the perceived imaginary raise of incidents amongst recent trainees. Practicing GB or any part of the assessment is at the very end of list of possible issues. At the end of the day, trainees become good drivers in 99% at school and during practical handling.

Check on the RSSB, OPSWEB and ORR websites on statistics with operating incidents, it is clear that there are more newer drivers (under 5 years) having incidents now than ever before.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I feel that your posts come across as bitter. Perhaps bitter that you feel you had to rely on innate talent to get where you are, but now others have more information to draw on and therefor are able to train themselves to pass the selection process to get where they want to be.

My posts are not bitter in the slightest. People cannot train themselves to have the natural ability to be able to concentrate, withhold information etc. They can train themselves to pass a one off test though. As I said I feel that the whole recruitment process is a farce and I really do feel sorry for the candidates who are not getting through on borderline passes who have not practiced who would have got through before the practice material and answers to the interviews were available.

I have had possibly over 100 pm's and emails asking me for answers to interview questions, asking how someone can pass the assessments and interviews. I feel that there are very many desperate people out there who "HAVE" to get the role even if it means they are not suitable.

 

[RBSN]

My posts are not bitter in the slightest. People cannot train themselves to have the natural ability to be able to concentrate, withhold information etc. They can train themselves to pass a one off test though. As I said I feel that the whole recruitment process is a farce and I really do feel sorry for the candidates who are not getting through on borderline passes who have not practiced who would have got through before the practice material and answers to the interviews were available.

So what you're saying is a young 17 year old, fresh out of school, who's joining the Armed Forces as an intelligence officer doesn't learn how to concentrate or withhold information? and that he or she must already have this 'natural ability' you honk on about?

Please.

 

[TDK]

So what you're saying is a young 17 year old, fresh out of school, who's joining the Armed Forces as an intelligence officer doesn't learn how to concentrate or withhold information? and that he or she must already have this 'natural ability' you honk on about?

Please.

You have to be 21 to be a train driver so the 17 year old will have time to establish what they need

 

[RBSN]

You have to be 21 to be a train driver so the 17 year old will have time to establish what they need

My point exactly, TDK. By establish you mean trained or prepare. It's not natural ability. Show me a surgeon who has the 'natural ability' to perform operations on humans.

In addition; if you're applying for your dream career, knowing how hard it is to get 'in', would you not gain as much information as you could? would you not prepare yourself in any way that was possible?

 

[Goingloco]

I am currently trawling the forum and Internet as I prepare for my first stage testing. I plan to leave no stone unturned as this is a career that wish to commit to for many years to come.

I'm hammering the GBT book by Richard McMunn which only has 11 columns (unless you turn the page then it's 15). I'm getting to 11/12 lines down with no mistakes but I believe the actual test is 25 columns is this correct?

If I need to get to 9/10 rows down but there are 25 columns then I may have to re-think my practise strategy?

Any advice gratefully received and thanks in advance to those helpful souls on this forum.

Thanks

 

[RBSN]

I am currently trawling the forum and Internet as I prepare for my first stage testing. I plan to leave no stone unturned as this is a career that wish to commit to for many years to come.

I'm hammering the GBT book by Richard McMunn which only has 11 columns (unless you turn the page then it's 15). I'm getting to 11/12 lines down with no mistakes but I believe the actual test is 25 columns is this correct?

If I need to get to 9/10 rows down but there are 25 columns then I may have to re-think my practise strategy?

Any advice gratefully received and thanks in advance to those helpful souls on this forum.

Thanks

The actual GBT is easier than the book. Or at least I found the test to be a lot easier.

Only advice I could give is get plenty of sleep the night before and eat/drink well before you get there a fuel your mind.

 

[Goingloco]

Thanks for the advice, I've booked into the hotel where the testing is to be completed so I'm hoping for a good night beforehand!!

I admit I am very new to the process and this thread repeats constantly that you have 2 minutes per page, is this correct? I was informed it was only 1 minute and I cannot see how I will reach the desired target (9/10 lines) in just a minute.

Hope you can confirm that it is 2 per page, please!

Thanks

 

[Trainguy590]

2 minutes per page yes, it's a simple task don't fret over it too much, it's only 10 minutes of the entire day, take your time and be accurate and you'll pass.

 

[Goingloco]

Many thanks easy guy, that is a weight off believe me. At 2 mins I can comfortably get to 12 lines with confidence. Very grateful for the quick response as I feel far more confident now.

Thanks.

 

[RBSN]

Many thanks easy guy, that is a weight off believe me. At 2 mins I can comfortably get to 12 lines with confidence. Very grateful for the quick response as I feel far more confident now.

Thanks.

Don't put all your efforts into getting x amount of lines. I've just recently passed at Doncaster and I didn't get near 12 lines per page. Being accurate and not missing is more important.

 

[Goingloco]

Congratulations on your pass and note your advice, I'll take it steady. It does get more challenging as you progress through the pages.

Incidentally, on the trp1 was it the glop memory test?