Group Bourdon Tool

[Scudz]

Have you not read the advice that you need accuracy and consistency? You want to aim for no omissions or mistakes even if you start with only completing 3 lines a page and then increase to the point when you start making mistakes and sit at that point. These days any mistakes could mean a fail.

I did, but as always with my first attempt I went far too gung ho. Out of interest, what is a good no. lines with no ommissions / mistakes - 12-1300?

I was waiting to try find out if it was SCAAT or GBT before going any further.

Sounds like it's SCAAT and it's paper for me, I'll give the programme another go this evening with your advise resonating in my ears!

 

[theking]

I've seen mentioned about that 10 lines a page is good to aim for.

 

[Scudz]

I've seen mentioned about that 10 lines a page is good to aim for.

That can't be on the programme? hock: - or do you mean on paper?

Think that would work out around 2250 cells (9 pages, 10 lines, 25 per line)?


EDIT: to those who posted to slow down I made another attempt a little bit slower (better, but still need to work on the omitted).

Is this looking a bit better, a point to work from? - Is my row fluctuation a worry - I normally start quick but slow down as it gets more complex.

Overall Statistics:
-------------------

Perception & Attention:

Targets Omitted ------------ 3
Marked Incorrect ----------- None


Speed:

Total Cells ---------------- 1630
Mean Cell Time ------------- 0.210
Median Cell Time ----------- 0.150

Completed Rows ------------- 60
Mean Row Time -------------- 5.238
Median Row Time ------------ 4.990


Vigilance:

Row Fluctuation ------------ 5.34

 

[theking]

That's what I've seen earlier in the thread but I've not managed 10 rows consistently yet so I'm hoping it's easier on paper.

 

[TDK]

I did, but as always with my first attempt I went far too gung ho. Out of interest, what is a good no. lines with no ommissions / mistakes - 12-1300?

I was waiting to try find out if it was SCAAT or GBT before going any further.

Sounds like it's SCAAT and it's paper for me, I'll give the programme another go this evening with your advise resonating in my ears!

Nice one Scudz, just start off steady and try to get the same amount on each page with no mistakes, I don't know about now but when I did recruitment a candidate with 7 lines a page on the GB with no mistakes would be a better result that someone with 10 lines a page with 2 mistakes with slight variation.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

That's what I've seen earlier in the thread but I've not managed 10 rows consistently yet so I'm hoping it's easier on paper.

Don't worry, 10 rows will get you a pass and so will 7 on many occasions as long as you make no mistakes and are consistent.

 

[theking]

Thanks for the words of advice TDK.

 

[Tooktook]

As above thanks for the comments on here TDK and others. I was madly trying to get through as many lines as possible. When I focused on 8 to 10 lines with no error I felt more confident and I managed to pass stage 1 on Monday.

 

[Tara100]

Just had my first quick go on this test, and at first wondered why my cursor didn't work
Is there a quicker way to jump down to the next line, rather than scanning across with the > button?

One other thing...Are both tests done on paper on the assessment day?

Thanks
Tara

 

[Trainguy590]

For those of you wishing to run the program on a Mac, here is an easy fix.

Simply download and install this :

http://winebottler.kronenberg.org/

Then download the groupbourdon.exe and simply run it, simple as that!

 

[darren111]

Hi All, why did I not think to read this post, this will now help me with my SCAAT practice papers and prepare me for my assessment next Saturday.

 

[Economist]

Recently did the real thing on paper, managed 8 or 9 lines on each (to be honest I didn't have time to count the lines I'd done) so I don't think I've met the enhanced standard though I'd be happy with a national standard pass. I was slower on paper than on the computer to be honest and I don't think any amount of practice can fully prepare someone for the real thing.

Annoying thing was that it was cramped due to two to a desk and that as I changed pages my pen slipped and put a line near the end of a page, I instantly crossed it out and at the end let the invigilator know and they put a note beside it. Hopefully I'll have passed, fingers crossed.

The stuff on the forum did help me prepare so a big thank you to the folks who contribute on here.

 

[Trainguy590]

Well done, sure you'll be fine as long as there weren't too many errors...What's the "enhanced standard" ?

 

[Economist]

Thanks, "enhanced standard" was introduced by some of the TOCs due to the availability of practice materials, this standard is higher than that required by the RSSB. However, I believe that an attempt is only considered "failed" if a candidate fails to meet the RSSB standard.

I don't know if I missed zero or five, so long as they are alright about where I slipped I reckon I may have a chance.

I do wish they'd be more transparent about the pass mark though, I don't really have to see what they would lose be being so (though others may correct me). I once sat an aptitude test for a trainee programme at a large IT firm, where we were told beforehand that we needed 15/20 to pass. We were also told that a HR manager or someone who ran the programme got 3/20 or something (it was aptitude not intelligence that was measured). I passed with 17 or 18 but had an internal offer elsewhere.

 

[RBSN]

Hi guys,

I've just completed my first test, I'm not sure if I have failed miserably or not?

Group-Bourdon Result Statistics
Saved on 18/04/2015 at 21:44:21
-------------------------------



Overall Statistics:
-------------------

Perception & Attention:

Targets Omitted ------------ 64
Marked Incorrect ----------- 3


Speed:

Total Cells ---------------- 982
Mean Cell Time ------------- 0.396
Median Cell Time ----------- 0.340

Completed Rows ------------- 36
Mean Row Time -------------- 9.911
Median Row Time ------------ 9.800


Vigilance:

Row Fluctuation ------------ 4.92

 

[theking]

Hi guys,

I've just completed my first test, I'm not sure if I have failed miserably or not?

No nice way to say it but yes you have.

You need to have zero omitted and zero marked incorrect.

As has been said before start at a pace where you achieve this even if its only 3 or 4 lines and build up slowly.

 

[RBSN]

No nice way to say it but yes you have.

You need to have zero omitted and zero marked incorrect.

As has been said before start at a pace where you achieve this even if its only 3 or 4 lines and build up slowly.

Thanks, theking.

I'll be working on this for Tuesday!

 

[kelv]

what are the controls for the software ?

Figured that it's the arrows but what is it to select ?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I couldnt get the help to work either. Choose test type, SCAAT or GBT. Leave settings as default. SCAAT tells you what to look for on each sheet; controls are arrow keys; right goes right, up marks a cell, left goes left but you get one left space only to correct a fault. Up also unmarks on a correction. Keep going one cell at a time left to right until it tells you its finished, then you get a score.

I still dont know what is a good score!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Recent scores; anyone who can advise how these stack up?

SCAAT Total cells 1253, omitted 4, incorrect none

GBT Total cells 1120, omitted 7, incorrect none

All settings left as default

aha, 'Search Thread' function works a treat.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
1st Attempt.....

Overall Statistics:
-------------------

Perception & Attention:

Targets Omitted ------------ 7
Marked Incorrect ----------- 0


Speed:

Total Cells ---------------- 724
Mean Cell Time ------------- 0.527
Median Cell Time ----------- 0.420

Completed Rows ------------- 27
Mean Row Time -------------- 13.229
Median Row Time ------------ 12.800


Vigilance:

Row Fluctuation ------------ 10.03

missed 4 on 1st sheet
0 on 2nd
1 on 3,4 & 5

got to row 7 on 1st 2 sheets, row 6 on others.


1st attempt & page 1 let me down the most with 4 mistakes. So is it just a case of keep practicing ?
What do I need to look at improving ? ..... Speed ? cos after 1st sheet my errors were only 1 per sheet.


any advice would be appreciated.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
attempt 2

Overall Statistics:
-------------------

Perception & Attention:

Targets Omitted ------------ 4
Marked Incorrect ----------- 2


Speed:

Total Cells ---------------- 790
Mean Cell Time ------------- 0.490
Median Cell Time ----------- 0.410

Completed Rows ------------- 29
Mean Row Time -------------- 12.352
Median Row Time ------------ 11.990


Vigilance:

Row Fluctuation ------------ 8.00


Speeded up a little, missed less but marked 2 incorrectly.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Anyone know which test Freightliner Intermodal will use, Grp Bourdon or Scaat ?

also, how does the tool differ from the actual test ?

i.e. will the test have the highlight cursor option thats on the tool ?

 

[del12]

Where are you doing this test if you don't mind me asking, any links or practice software I can practice on?

 

[WCMLaddict]

Main difference? Said already many many times...

IT'S DONE ON PAPER!

So rather than keep on doing it on your computer, you will be much better off by doing it with a pen on a print out.

 

[kelv]

Main difference? Said already many many times...

IT'S DONE ON PAPER!

So rather than keep on doing it on your computer, you will be much better off by doing it with a pen on a print out.

is that the case with all companies ?

 

[col68]

i bought all the software and books available . my advice is, do not practice this test on a computer. practice on paper . there are books available online "richard munn" books. practice practice practice.
i passed mine in march this was the one i was worried about aswell.

 

[kelv]

I've just had a go at the Scaat Test on the software, it says I omitted 8 but when I check through the sheets I've only missed out 4 (1 was the last symbol my cursor went to.. damn clock), anyone else noticed any error in the number of 'misses' ?

Overall Statistics:
-------------------

Perception & Attention:

Targets Omitted ------------ 8
Marked Incorrect ----------- 2


Speed:

Total Cells ---------------- 950
Mean Cell Time ------------- 0.364
Median Cell Time ----------- 0.300

Completed Rows ------------- 34
Mean Row Time -------------- 9.132
Median Row Time ------------ 8.870


Vigilance:

Row Fluctuation ------------ 8.01

 

[DunfordBridge]

When you are checking your omissions, are you scanning manually with your eye? There should be a facility to highlight the omissions.

 

[RBSN]

i bought all the software and books available . my advice is, do not practice this test on a computer. practice on paper . there are books available online "richard munn" books. practice practice practice.
i passed mine in march this was the one i was worried about aswell.

I've just bought one of his books. Thanks for the tip

 

[Trainguy590]

When you are checking your omissions, are you scanning manually with your eye? There should be a facility to highlight the omissions.

There is...

 

[kelv]

When you are checking your omissions, are you scanning manually with your eye? There should be a facility to highlight the omissions.

There is...

yeah when I check I highlight the omissions, and also the amount that it says on each sheet is correct but then when you see the total number it's double.

Only noticed it on Scaat, not GBT.

I should be instantly given a job based on noticing something that everyone else has missed so am therefore

• 
  Alert
  Vigilant
  Attentive
  Have Numerous other qualities that make me ideal

Most omissions I've noticed when either 2 ahead and can only move back 1 or it's been the last 1 I've got to on the row and not highlighted as times ran out. On paper you could of course go back to an omission & also the 'last one' wont come into it either.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Where are you doing this test if you don't mind me asking, any links or practice software I can practice on?

1st post of this thread has the link that I downloaded from.

 

[col68]

I've just bought one of his books. Thanks for the tip

youre welcome good luck. also i found the paper test on the day easier than the practice papers because there is a slight gap between each one meaning it was easier to see in between the sets of dots

 

[RBSN]

youre welcome good luck. also i found the paper test on the day easier than the practice papers because there is a slight gap between each one meaning it was easier to see in between the sets of dots

Interesting! My test is this Thursday early morning so I'm getting some good practising in!

 

[col68]

Interesting! My test is this Thursday early morning so I'm getting some good practising in!

good luck

 

[JohnC]

Has anyone had trouble printing practice SCAAT tests? There seems to be a lot cut off the side of mine to the point where you can only practice stage 1, as you cant see the second target symbols for stage 2, and obviously cant check your answers properly. I've tried altering the default paper size in windows and there's no print preview available in the program itself.