Bring back screwlink couplings and vacuum brakes I say!
Nowt wrong with a buckeye and pipes either!
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Gross overcrowding on the 23:05 Waterloo to Poole service
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Nowt wrong with a buckeye and pipes either!
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Bring back screwlink couplings and vacuum breaks I say!
Rubbish, EP brakes rule !
AndyLandy
Established Member
Bring back screwlink couplings and vacuum breaks I say!
Nowt wrong with a buckeye and pipes either!
I'VE GOT IT! We'll invent a new standard that encompasses the best features of all the existing ones! It'll be perfect!
I'm glad (sad?) that my industry (IT) isn't the only one that suffers from the "too many standards" problem. The common fix to these problems is always to invent a new standard encompassing all of the features of the others, making the problem worse.
I think some 'standards' are non-standard for commercial reasons. Vendor lock-in and all that
I think some 'standards' are non-standard for commercial reasons. Vendor lock-in and all that
Monty
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Inventing the 'standard' isn't the problem, it's getting all parties to adopt it.
martybabes
Member
Bring back...vacuum breaks I say!
A flask at PNB time!
HSTEd
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So why have British railways not managed to stick with a standard for more than five minutes when in America they have had far far more success despite a possibly even more diverse set of locomotive manufacturers?
Standardised automatic couplings at a standard height above the railhead and a standard set of electrical connections does not seem to be too much to ask.
Standardised automatic couplings at a standard height above the railhead and a standard set of electrical connections does not seem to be too much to ask.
AndyLandy
Established Member
Looks like Muzer got the irony in my previous post then! 
HSTEd
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Ironically one of the cases listed in that xkcd strip (A/C chargers for mobile phones and the like) are now standardised in Europe.....
Yup - meaning everyone that had phones made before the standardisation where at least individual manufacturers tended to stick with the same ports, now have to buy new cables for charging when buying a new phone. Might solve the problem in the long term (of course Apple are somehow immune), but in the short term it's incredibly irritating!
£20???? Bloody rip-off. They should be made to include it in the box for no additional cost. It sort of defeats the point if you need to buy external adaptors.
I'm not a fan of Micro USB. I find the connectors become loose after a few months and then the cables easily fall out. Also, it's too easy to try to plug them in upside down. The idea is good though.
Indeed it will.
Apple arent even compatible with Apple, of course Apple are 'special' arent they!
Indeed. Although the connectors are *rated* higher than Mini USB (still far too low though!), they seem flimsier if accidentally mistreated.
Just means the law was written badly!
Anyway, back OT. If you wanted to see a busy late night service you should have seen the 00.09 Victoria-Brighton-Worthing/Eastbourne service last friday night. It leaves Victoria as a 12 car. At Haywards Heath the front 4 goes to Brighton, then Worthing, while the rear 8 head to Eastbourne. Due to the layout at Brighton there is only one platform, 3, where you can come in from the mainline and head out towards Hove and Worthing. The point for this route is half way down the platform, as a result you can only work a 4 car.
I joined the train at Three Bridges and the front 4 were packed. People were even standing in the join between 4 and 5. During the split we had to get them onto the platform and squeeze them into the front coaches where there was a little bit more standing room. The run from the Heath down to Brighton might be only 13 mins, but it was just packed silly, and its now past 1am. Most get off at Brighton, and for the run to Hove then Worthing there are seats. When everyone is off at Worthing, it looks like its been hit by a bomb inside.
I also took the 23.39 out of Victoria towards Brighton, which was an 8 car, and quite busy.
Fun and Games
I joined the train at Three Bridges and the front 4 were packed. People were even standing in the join between 4 and 5. During the split we had to get them onto the platform and squeeze them into the front coaches where there was a little bit more standing room. The run from the Heath down to Brighton might be only 13 mins, but it was just packed silly, and its now past 1am. Most get off at Brighton, and for the run to Hove then Worthing there are seats. When everyone is off at Worthing, it looks like its been hit by a bomb inside.
I also took the 23.39 out of Victoria towards Brighton, which was an 8 car, and quite busy.
Fun and Games
D1009
Established Member
OK, going back to the OP, do any other TOCs run 5 or less car trains from London serving similar population centres similar distances from London at that time of night? It does seem to me that a 5 car train from London for that sort of run is totally inadequate. I travel on long distance SWT trains during the day which have lots of spare space, so particularly with TOCs who have a vast amount of stock to cover peak demand it shouldn't be impossible to more closely match the length of the trains with the needs of the passengers?
ModernRailways
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They don't tend to get too busy though do they? I was on the 0015 (something like that anyway) FCC service and got it as far as Stevenage and whilst some had to stand there where plenty of seats should people have sat next to each other. I think the drunks put some people off mind!
After midnight during the early week they are quiet. The trains like 2110 & 2123 Peterbourgh, some of the cruisers and the 2301 & 2323 peterbourghs can get busy with people standing as far as stevenage/Biggleswade/Letchworth depending on the first stop.
The 0036 on a Thursday & Friday can be rammed as far as Hatfield / Welwyn.
I think this thread contains every excuse under the sun. No, can't have any additional cars added, even with more than half the fleet in sidings, they are all needed for unavoidable maintenance every night and all weekend, or using them will disrupt everything for the next day. No, can't have any additional services, no more drivers available, not one anywhere. No, can't forecast additional demand, too difficult. Yadda yadda yadda.
My question is simply this. When the rail service lets us down yet again, up turns suddenly a series of Rail Replacement Buses. Now where do these come from in our competitor industry? We don't hear that every bus in the garage is undergoing maintenance for the bulk of its life. We don't hear that getting a bus out in the evening must lead to cancellations the next morning. We don't hear that no more drivers can be made available this year, or that they don't do overtime, or that the rail breakdown was not forecast so the management can't do anything.
Why the difference?
My question is simply this. When the rail service lets us down yet again, up turns suddenly a series of Rail Replacement Buses. Now where do these come from in our competitor industry? We don't hear that every bus in the garage is undergoing maintenance for the bulk of its life. We don't hear that getting a bus out in the evening must lead to cancellations the next morning. We don't hear that no more drivers can be made available this year, or that they don't do overtime, or that the rail breakdown was not forecast so the management can't do anything.
Why the difference?
Temple Meads
Established Member
Actually you're wrong, rail replacement buses can be hard to source in the morning and mid afternoon, as they are required to serve school contracts, with regards to being out of position however, buses are generally a lot easier to get back to base than trains are, so I wouldn't expect that to be a problem where RRB's are concerned.
I bet they don't put that on the public posters advertising the station closures. I don't think the local residents would be too happy.
Would Southern be legally allowed to ignore the BTP and keep the stations open, hypothetically speaking as I doubt they actually would.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
If that is really the case and I don't doubt it, why are TOCs not taking out more seats on trains to enable more passengers to stand? That would help solve the overcrowding. I mean SWT have been extending platforms. Why not remove seats instead. I mean seats are just a free extra that they offer as a good will gesture. They are not part of the ticket contract as far as I am aware.
I agree with that. But if the trains are regularly packed then I do think it would be useful to do something, even if that means removing train seats and making more people stand. At least the people wouldn't be left at the station. Ok I admit I wouldn't want train seats taken out but just because I wouldn't want it doesn't mean it isn't an option worse considering.
HSTEd
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Because the 'evil' DfT makes them.
The DfT actually cares about overcrowding, the free market doesn't.
Here is what W. J. Gordon had to say on the subject of trains and passenger numbers in his book Our Home Railways, published in 1910. This is from volume 1 and the section on Great Eastern [pages 235-237]:
"...ever since the 21st June 1897 it [Great Eastern] has been running passenger trains in and out of Liverpool Street all though the night, its booking offices never closing; and in the early morning it has to deal with the workmen's rush to town in the overcrowded carriages we hear of. This overcrowded, however, is not so much due to the lack of facilities provided by the company as to the desire of passengers to travel by particular trains and in particular carriages - the first they reach or those that pull up nearest the exits - and so far as the last trains concerned, to the crowd who re not workmen but take advantage of coming cheaply to business though they may have to wait about the City until their office opens.
The profitable working of trains is not so simple as may seem. Any person can run a train from one place to another when the road is clear, but the difficulty is to get it back again fairly well filled. There is nothing more wasteful than an empty train or a train kept idle for hours, with so many carriages, and the engine, as it were in quarantine.
The ideal manager is he who can keep his rolling stock on the move earning money all day long. So many coaches he has to deal with, and none of these must he hang up doing nothing if he can help it. Further he must fill every seat if he can, but have no passengers standing. On an electric line it really dos not matter to him whether the coaches be overcrowded or not, for the power with which he hands them comes from the central station, and it makes no difference if the load be in one train or half a dozen; but on a line worked by steam it is to his interest to prevent overcrowding, as it increases the weight of the train and throws more work on to the engine than he has provided for, whilst the other trains than run light require a less powerful engine. The carrying capacity of trains is limited by the length of the platforms and the length of the sidings, just as the length of the wheel-base of the coaches is regulated by the length of the locking-bar; and if more than one train is necessary to carry the passengers it is ridiculous to blame the company because the passengers insist on going by the last."
"...ever since the 21st June 1897 it [Great Eastern] has been running passenger trains in and out of Liverpool Street all though the night, its booking offices never closing; and in the early morning it has to deal with the workmen's rush to town in the overcrowded carriages we hear of. This overcrowded, however, is not so much due to the lack of facilities provided by the company as to the desire of passengers to travel by particular trains and in particular carriages - the first they reach or those that pull up nearest the exits - and so far as the last trains concerned, to the crowd who re not workmen but take advantage of coming cheaply to business though they may have to wait about the City until their office opens.
The profitable working of trains is not so simple as may seem. Any person can run a train from one place to another when the road is clear, but the difficulty is to get it back again fairly well filled. There is nothing more wasteful than an empty train or a train kept idle for hours, with so many carriages, and the engine, as it were in quarantine.
The ideal manager is he who can keep his rolling stock on the move earning money all day long. So many coaches he has to deal with, and none of these must he hang up doing nothing if he can help it. Further he must fill every seat if he can, but have no passengers standing. On an electric line it really dos not matter to him whether the coaches be overcrowded or not, for the power with which he hands them comes from the central station, and it makes no difference if the load be in one train or half a dozen; but on a line worked by steam it is to his interest to prevent overcrowding, as it increases the weight of the train and throws more work on to the engine than he has provided for, whilst the other trains than run light require a less powerful engine. The carrying capacity of trains is limited by the length of the platforms and the length of the sidings, just as the length of the wheel-base of the coaches is regulated by the length of the locking-bar; and if more than one train is necessary to carry the passengers it is ridiculous to blame the company because the passengers insist on going by the last."
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