Greater Anglia Timetable: What would you do?

[Trainfan344]

As a Lowestoft Resident. I'd rather sacrifice the through service and change at Ipswich for a ride on a comfy Mk3 to London. Quieter and comfier I find!

 

[dk1]

The through services are supposed to start in May 2019...

Is it 4 services in total, eg, 2 services each way, or is it 4 services each way???

Well I was under the impression from the outset that it was 4 each way until a recent report on BBC Look East about EDFs plans for Sizewell & the possible re-doubling Saxmundham-Woodbridge. A representative for the local user group was speaking & said "four direct services, two each way" so now I'm confused.

 

[AlanFry1]

For the four tracking of the London part of the WAML is it being 3 tracked or 4 tracked at present?

 

[sjoh]

For the four tracking of the London part of the WAML is it being 3 tracked or 4 tracked at present?

Plan I believe is to 3 track first to enable STAR, but with provision for 4 tracking later on.

 

[AlanFry1]

Plan I believe is to 3 track first to enable STAR, but with provision for 4 tracking later on.

That's what I thought. Does seem odd to three track now, when 4 tracking is ultimately going to happen :roll:

Not really sure how Tottenham Hale station is going to cope, it doesn't seem to have the room for one new platform and trackbed let alone another platform and trackbed in the future

 

[sjoh]

That's what I thought. Does seem odd to three track now, when 4 tracking is ultimately going to happen :roll:

Not really sure how Tottenham Hale station is going to cope, it doesn't seem to have the room for one new platform and trackbed let alone another platform and trackbed in the future

Look at Tottenham Hale in Google Earth. You'll see there's a strip of land beside it on the east. This is where the old slow lines were (added in 1913 and lifted around electrification time i think). There is definitely the space to quad the line. The reason it's not being done all at once is primarily down to cost.

 

[AlanFry1]

Look at Tottenham Hale in Google Earth. You'll see there's a strip of land beside it on the east. This is where the old slow lines were (added in 1913 and lifted around electrification time i think). There is definitely the space to quad the line. The reason it's not being done all at once is primarily down to cost.

I've done that a few times over the last few months but it still doesn't look big enough? And isn't the big structure on the current platforms going to have to be demolished sooner or later?

 

[anti-pacer]

In an ideal world I would like to see a faster London-Norwich service with less stops. When I lived in Great Yarmouth (1992-6) the London-Norwich services didn't stop until at least Colchester. Now there's Stratford, Shenfield and Chelmsford in the mix, and whilst they give valuable connections to the Docklands, East London and South Essex, I think 1tph could call at Ipswich and Norwich only. I mean, come on, does Diss need 3tph to London and Norwich?

I know it's all down to available paths but surely this could be managed.

Maybe a London-Norwich service pattern like this;

1tph calling at Ipswich only
1tph calling at Stratford, Shenfield, Chelmsford, Colchester, Manningtree, Ipswich, Needham Market, Stowmarket, and Diss
1tph calling at Stratford, Chelmsford, Colchester, Ipswich, and Diss

 

[AlanFry1]

In an ideal world I would like to see a faster London-Norwich service with less stops. When I lived in Great Yarmouth (1992-6) the London-Norwich services didn't stop until at least Colchester. Now there's Stratford, Shenfield and Chelmsford in the mix, and whilst they give valuable connections to the Docklands, East London and South Essex, I think 1tph could call at Ipswich and Norwich only. I mean, come on, does Diss need 3tph to London and Norwich?

I know it's all down to available paths but surely this could be managed.

Maybe a London-Norwich service pattern like this;

1tph calling at Ipswich only
1tph calling at Stratford, Shenfield, Chelmsford, Colchester, Manningtree, Ipswich, Needham Market, Stowmarket, and Diss
1tph calling at Stratford, Chelmsford, Colchester, Ipswich, and Diss

Shenfield hasn't had a service to Norwich for years off peak

 

[jopsuk]

more of a fantasy one- (re)-build the Haverhill line. From south of Cambridge, ru using the bi-modes:
1tph Airport-Norwich (Airport-Audley End-Whittlesford-Cambridge-Cambridge North-Ely-Brandon-Thetford-Attleborough-Wymondham-Norwich)
1tph Haverhill-Norwich all stops (and I mean all)
1tph Haverhill-Peterborough all stops.

still run the XC and EMT services, obviously, but strip them of stops between Ely & Norwich and Ely & Peterborough

 

[dk1]

more of a fantasy one- (re)-build the Haverhill line. From south of Cambridge, ru using the bi-modes:
1tph Airport-Norwich (Airport-Audley End-Whittlesford-Cambridge-Cambridge North-Ely-Brandon-Thetford-Attleborough-Wymondham-Norwich)
1tph Haverhill-Norwich all stops (and I mean all)
1tph Haverhill-Peterborough all stops.

still run the XC and EMT services, obviously, but strip them of stops between Ely & Norwich and Ely & Peterborough

What are you smoking?

 

[sjoh]

I've done that a few times over the last few months but it still doesn't look big enough? And isn't the big structure on the current platforms going to have to be demolished sooner or later?

There definitely is the space - there used to be platforms there! Admittedly, putting them in now brings them very close to the student housing next door, so not sure how that'd go down in planning.

If by the 'big structure' you mean the shelters along the platforms, two escalators and a bridge over the tracks, I think, but am not sure, that some of that will be dealt with in the planned upgrade to Tottenham Hale.

 

[Class 170101]

Something to note. Although there might have been 4 lines between 1913 and Electrification of the Lea Valley it would be interesting to know whether current standards would mean the formation is sufficiently wide enough.

 

[Class 170101]

Maybe a London-Norwich service pattern like this;

1tph calling at Colchester Ipswich only
1tph calling at Stratford, Shenfield, Chelmsford, Colchester, Manningtree, Ipswich, Stowmarket, and Diss
1tph calling at Stratford, Chelmsford, Colchester, Ipswich

Note the changes.

 

[Trainfan344]

more of a fantasy one- (re)-build the Haverhill line.
1tph Haverhill-Norwich all stops (and I mean all)

How long would that even take? Would you send it via the East Suffolk Line to Lowestoft,then To Reedham, then to Great Yarmouth then to Norwich?

 

[Trainfan344]

...
Maybe a London-Norwich service pattern like this;

1tph calling at Colchester, Ipswich only
1tph calling at Stratford, Chelmsford, Colchester, Manningtree, Ipswich, Stowmarket, and Diss
1tph calling at Chelmsford, Colchester, Ipswich, and Diss

That sounds Ideal. Colchester and Ipswich only could be pushing 95/100 minute journey times. (Considering that London to Norwich calling at Colchester, Manningtree, Ipswich and Diss gets 118 minutes).

 

[Wivenswold]

I've had a look at deployment of Stadler 4 cars are there certainly seems to be some spare capacity there. With that in mind, I wouldn't rule out that one of either the 3rd hourly service between LST and Norwich or the new hourly Harwich service will be made up of 2 x 4 car Bi-modes that will split en-route to provide the 4 London to Lowestoft services.

I've heard from AGA Customer Services that the Stadlers are unlikely to be used to Clacton or Walton, though it was followed with a comment that nothing can be ruled out. So I think Colchester Town to Sudbury will be 2 x 3 car Stadlers and will be kept separate from the Walton trains.

It's the deployment and layout of the 22 10 carAventras that most interests me. There's currently 26 GE 12 car commuter trains in each direction, some trains will clearly be reduced in length.

 

[Wivenswold]

I like the alternative London to Norwich service idea by the way. I don't think it will take long for that one to happen once the Stadlers have settled in.

 

[dk1]

That sounds Ideal. Colchester and Ipswich only could be pushing 95/100 minute journey times. (Considering that London to Norwich calling at Colchester, Manningtree, Ipswich and Diss gets 118 minutes).

Do you mean 108 minutes?

 

[AS43]

It's the deployment and layout of the 22 10 carAventras that most interests me. There's currently 26 GE 12 car commuter trains in each direction, some trains will clearly be reduced in length.

I think that the 10 car Aventras will be equivalent in length to current 12 cars, though how that translates to seats is another matter entirely! Presumably 2x5 cars will be a possibility during the peaks..?

 

[TheEdge]

It's the deployment and layout of the 22 10 carAventras that most interests me. There's currently 26 GE 12 car commuter trains in each direction, some trains will clearly be reduced in length.

Aren't the Aventra's longer vehicles so 10 cars are the same size (and maybe with more seating) than a 12 car 321/360?

 

[Wivenswold]

Aren't the Aventra's longer vehicles so 10 cars are the same size (and maybe with more seating) than a 12 car 321/360?

Yes, in effect 2 x 5 car units will be roughly the same as 10 of our 321/360 cars (minus one cab)

The 10 car Aventras will have longer cars which equates to a current 12 car 321/360 set (albeit minus 4 cabs).

This will matter on the 4 or 5 trains in each peak that are currently 12 car and go down to 2 x 5 cars. Especially for passengers travelling to places like Walton, Braintree and Southminster when trying to get a seat at Liverpool Street on the way home. They can't just jump on the next train as they have less frequent services. It's a concern for people like me who look perfectly healthy but have to sit to avoid sickening levels of pain. At the moment I could also buy a 1st class ticket to guarantee a seat, but they're going as well.

 

[Ianno87]

How long would that even take? Would you send it via the East Suffolk Line to Lowestoft,then To Reedham, then to Great Yarmouth then to Norwich?

...and I'm intrigued by where exactly the proposer thinks the demand will come from at Shippea Hill, Lakenheath and the like. Stand on either platform and look at the miles of nothingness around.

 

[AlanFry1]

A Norwich Service calling at Tottenham Hale, Bishops Stortford, Cambridge, Chesterton, Ely, Thetford, Norwich (1 per hour) would be nice.

 

[Kite159]

A Norwich Service calling at Tottenham Hale, Bishops Stortford, Cambridge, Chesterton, Ely, Thetford, Norwich (1 per hour) would be nice.

I'm surprised you haven't said Tottenham Hale rather than the far far bigger & busier White Hart Lane

 

[dk1]

A Norwich Service calling at Tottenham Hale, Bishops Stortford, Cambridge, Chesterton, Ely, Thetford, Norwich (1 per hour) would be nice.

Would be nice but would suggest adding Brandon, Attleborough & Wymondham but I'd never advocate this over the committed through Stansted service from Norwich.

 

[Class 170101]

A Norwich Service calling at Tottenham Hale, Bishops Stortford, Cambridge, Chesterton, Ely, Thetford, Norwich (1 per hour) would be nice.

Add Harlow Town to the calling Pattern and probably Audley End. I assume by Chesterton you mean Cambridge North?

 

[dk1]

Add Harlow Town to the calling Pattern and probably Audley End. I assume by Chesterton you mean Cambridge North?

I do not think legally that you can not stop at Audley End.

 

[TheBigD]

I do not think legally that you can not stop at Audley End.

Not in the current timetable but in a couple of previous ones the first XC from Cambridge to Stansted on a Saturday morning ran non stop and didn't call at Audley End...

 

[dk1]

Not in the current timetable but in a couple of previous ones the first XC from Cambridge to Stansted on a Saturday morning ran non stop and didn't call at Audley End...

Was it a passenger service or ECS? I was told ALL trains booked to call at Cambridge MUST stop at Audley End due to a bylaw for trains to pass over the land. Similar to Stockport Viaduct & only trains I've known in last few years where the Liv.St-Norwich IC services during the Ipswich Tunnel blockade of 2004 which ran via the yard not platforms.