Wivenswold
Established Member
Thank you for the Gen on that. I've not seen 322 for a while and assumed it had gone up already. It could be that 322 has a fault and it was just easier to send it up with 324, but your guess may be nearer the money.
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Greater Anglia Rolling Stock Updates
- Thread starter Wivenswold
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Thank you for the Gen on that. I've not seen 322 for a while and assumed it had gone up already. It could be that 322 has a fault and it was just easier to send it up with 324, but your guess may be nearer the money.
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uxm
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Where are the 379s going?
uxm
Member
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Why is scotrail taking in 321s which are older instead of the 379s?
Any idea which units are involved?
uxm
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Why would it be stupid? getting higher quality air conditioned EMUs? I guess the people of scotland are being disbeniifited
Because a 4 car train is pretty useless around Glasgow. Their suburban network has been based off of 3/6x 20m vehicles for a long period of time now, and all of the EMUs that work those services can work with each other. A 379 isn't a 4 car (and couldn't easily be converted), and cannot work with the existing EMUS. The sort of role to which they would have been suited is being covered by the 385s and 380s, so again no need for them there. And of course, there is the fact that they were only announced as coming off lease long after the scotrail franchise was announced, and even longer after the 321/320 conversion project was announced.
samuelmorris
Established Member
Quite a lot more to it than that, the routes required 3-car units, hence why 321s were taken over 319s, since it was easier to remove the middle car of a 321 with no vital equipment being in it (as opposed to a 319 where it's evenly distributed) as opposed to 379s where there would be far more challenges. It's another unit type to train staff on, maintain etc. etc.
RailWonderer
Established Member
A few pages back someone commented that the TOC tried to diagram 20 out of 21 360s and it didn't work - probably because if any train needed a repair, a wash or any minor problem, there weren't any units left of the same class.
But can someone explain why the diagramming is so dumb?
Example:
A 360 arrives from Clacton at xx:31 and becomes an xx:02 to Ipswich
Another 360 arrives from Colchester town at xx:44 and becomes the xx:18 to Clacton.
Why are turnaround times half an hour? It's absurd. That's why most services are 321s and you often hear a driver say 'we are waiting for a platform'.
But can someone explain why the diagramming is so dumb?
Example:
A 360 arrives from Clacton at xx:31 and becomes an xx:02 to Ipswich
Another 360 arrives from Colchester town at xx:44 and becomes the xx:18 to Clacton.
Why are turnaround times half an hour? It's absurd. That's why most services are 321s and you often hear a driver say 'we are waiting for a platform'.
306024
Established Member
Sorry can't explain why the diagramming is "so dumb", but could give a long detailed explanation as to how the diagramming is actually perfectly sound. Somehow I fear it would be wasted. There are no platform capacity problems at Liverpool St with those off peak turnround times, and in any case the alternative would be what exactly?
Wivenswold
Established Member
More importantly, you'll find much tighter turnarounds when platform capacity is tight in the peak. When I commuted to London until recently my train home was the 17:25 ex-Ipswich which went back out again as the 17:32 to Clacton. I'd invite you to stand at the Country End of the East shed (sorry, old habits...) and watch how it all fits together in the peaks. You'll find the diagramming is not dumb, there's a regular service pattern, headways, stock availability, stock suitability, route familiarity, running order, PNBs, conflicts along the line and so many more things to factor into scheduling.
Timetable planning is a very complex, skilled role even on a relatively straightforward line like the GEML. I spent some time with the Southern Region train planning team back in the day, the complexity of their system fried my brain.
Timetable planning is a very complex, skilled role even on a relatively straightforward line like the GEML. I spent some time with the Southern Region train planning team back in the day, the complexity of their system fried my brain.
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delticdave
Member
Does the driver stay with the unit during these off-peak turnarounds, or do they take out another (earlier) departure?
Q? no 2, do drivers "step-back" in the peaks, as per some of the Underground terminals?
F Great Eastern
Established Member
The original plan was never to diagram 20 out of 21 units to be fair when the rolling stock was being procured by First Great Eastern what is now coming up for 20 years ago.
FGE wanted to order 25 units but the SRA in their infinite wisdom decided that many were unnecessary, so FGE chose to cut both the lengths of some trains and reduce the redundancy built into the fleet as a compromise to reducing capacity from original plans.
306024
Established Member
Duplicate post deleted
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306024
Established Member
The basic rule of good crew diagramming is keep the crew with the train wherever possible. So yes at Liverpool St the vast majority of trains are worked in and out by the same driver. Exceptions are where the relatively small number of Liverpool St drivers are involved, or where trains split or attach. Stepping back isn't planned. By keeping the crews with the train and having robust turnround times the GE timetable can recover from major incidents quicker than most.
On the subject of 360 fleet availability, once the fleet size of 21 had been specified, the plan until the recent mod programme has always been 20/21. This is what Siemens stated was possible.
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RailWonderer
Established Member
Point taken.
Perhaps reduce it from 30 mins to 15-20 mins but obviously only when the new timetable is introduced.
In hindsight a bad idea since usage on the GEML has grown so much since then, they certainly weren't forward looking and didn't take into account increase in passengers, not so many 321s would've been procured from Capital Connect and London Midland later on had they built a few more 360s but it's a lesson to groups like the SRA that don't futureproof.
uxm
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Does anyone know what the confirmed front of the FLIRTS and AVENTRAS are gonna look like?
samuelmorris
Established Member
Yes, this post: https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...ing-stock-updates.143516/page-49#post-3636673
and this video:
The 10-car Aventras will look almost identical to the 5-cars other than their length. The 12-car EMU Flirts will, as far as I can tell, have a very similar front, just without the diesel power unit in the middle.
and this video:
The 10-car Aventras will look almost identical to the 5-cars other than their length. The 12-car EMU Flirts will, as far as I can tell, have a very similar front, just without the diesel power unit in the middle.
F Great Eastern
Established Member
The original plan was 23 out of 25.
samuelmorris
Established Member
Singular Class 720/5 units I expect.
dk1
Veteran Member
Every franchise change I think these will no longer continue beyond Ely & im proved wrong. Must be some very influential people who want to travel direct to the City from West Norfolk.
AS43
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They do a reasonable trade though and nicely plug the gaps of the GTR Lynn services. When/if GTR run half hourly into the evening, then perhaps GA will only go as far as Ely... Incidentally, a single 720/5 would probably result in an altered stopping pattern, courtesy of the short platforms at the villages.
dk1
Veteran Member
I always pay close attention to these trains particularly those that delay my 19:22 or 20:19 Cambridge - Norwich
Loadings are poor in comparison to GTR.
AS43
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True, but they serve a purpose. Apparently there is some historical commitment to running those services, but that is probably apocryphal!I always pay close attention to these trains particularly those that delay my 19:22 or 20:19 Cambridge - Norwich
As an aside, take it from a Cambridge driver that it's disheartening when, even though you're just a smidge late, the Norwich is let out in front of you and you know you're going to miss the single line slot at Littleport
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dk1
Veteran Member
True, but they serve a purpose. Apparently there is some historical commitment to running those services, but that is probably apocryphal!
As an aside, take it from a Cambridge driver that it's disheartening when, even though you're just a smidge late, the Norwich is let out in front of you and you know you're going to miss the single line slot at Littleport
Oh I never thought of the Single line bit
Before we stopped at the North it used to do my nut in that the Lynn stops Waterbeach yet was still allowed out first even though at our departure time it was only just arriving & needed the rear unit(s) detached. I'd've thrashed the 170 & been well clear. On the subject of Waterbeach I see the new station has now been approved.
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