Greater Anglia Rolling Stock Updates

[samuelmorris]

Then I really don't understand why it took so long, unless they simply gave up rectifying the defects. I wonder if the A/C system was changed? presumably not if the hopper windows were added.

 

[dp21]

So they've pushed another senior manager over to assist with the new trains, who also is someone who is a commercial mind, to go with the other commercial minds and bid managers who are at the head of GA and the new train introduction projects, when they are badly in need of minds more from operational, engineering and new train experience backgrounds, you really couldn't make it up.

Do they really think they can just thrust commercial people in charge of such big projects and operational roles for such a massive transformation project and get by with an engineering head without any proper railway experience and everything will go fine?

Hopefully I will be proven wrong but honestly don't understand the make-up of this Abellio team who seem ill-prepared for the size of the project they are taking on.

He is a former depot manager so has extensive experience in both new trains and engineering. Just because their most recent role is commercial doesn't mean they don't have the appropriate experience.

The last couple of Renatus units I've travelled on have had their plug sockets blanked off. Is this a recent development? I'm pretty sure I've seen them in use previously.

Technical problems with supply. I believe until the problem can be rectified it was decided to blank them off to illustrate they're not working rather than have customers get their hopes up then let down when it doesn't work.

I'm strangely pleased to see it back and running. Like getting one of the old gang back for one last hurrah. The entire pre-privatisation Class 321 squadron back where it should be.

I'm getting carried away. Literally.

In other news. I wonder how the Crossrail news was greeted at GA HQ. I also wonder how much the Crossrail decision was affected by Bombardier's ability to rectify the issues with the 345s while trying to deliver the LO and GA fleets of Aventras. I can't imagine it's a happy day for the GA Delivery team.

This will be bad news for everyone, especially engineering as it means a delay getting the MTR 315s out of ilford, taking up space which is increasingly becoming a premium.

Then I really don't understand why it took so long, unless they simply gave up rectifying the defects. I wonder if the A/C system was changed? presumably not if the hopper windows were added.

All sorts of issues with it being the prototype rather than a production unit. Main thing is it's now back.

 

[trebor79]

As the 379s are earmarked to provide cover should there not be enough (or any) 745s to cover the Norwich - London services from 1/1/2020 it would be daft to not have drivers ready to use them, it would even allow some of the IC sets to be stood down early.

Uh? Why would you stand the IC sets down early to sub them with a commuter emu?

Fair enough (maybe) if the flirts are late, but I can't see many Norwich folk being happy to lose the current comfortable trains early.

It's takes the same tine for me to drive to Westfield Stratford and tube into London than it does to catch the train. And it's cheaper.
I usually take the train because it offers a more relaxing comfortable journey. Sometimes even pay for first class.

Ditching the current stock early and subbing with commuter style trains would change that equation for me and I'm sure a lot of others.

 

[trebor79]

And why are the 379s being replaced? They aren't even 10 years old!

 

[samuelmorris]

Uh? Why would you stand the IC sets down early to sub them with a commuter emu?

Fair enough (maybe) if the flirts are late, but I can't see many Norwich folk being happy to lose the current comfortable trains early.

It's takes the same tine for me to drive to Westfield Stratford and tube into London than it does to catch the train. And it's cheaper.
I usually take the train because it offers a more relaxing comfortable journey. Sometimes even pay for first class.

Ditching the current stock early and subbing with commuter style trains would change that equation for me and I'm sure a lot of others.

LHCS is not PRM-TSI (i.e. disability regs) compliant, so cannot be used beyond 01-Jan-20 without a change in the law.

and why are the 379s being replaced? They aren't even 10 years old!

Fleet commonality. I agree it's wasteful - they're very likely to find a new home, but where/when, who knows.

 

[MatthewRead]

LHCS is not PRM-TSI (i.e. disability regs) compliant, so cannot be used beyond 01-Jan-20 without a change in the law.


Fleet commonality. I agree it's wasteful - they're very likely to find a new home, but where/when, who knows.

Corby to St Pancras has been mooted before.

 

[trebor79]

LHCS is not PRM-TSI (i.e. disability regs) compliant, so cannot be used beyond 01-Jan-20 without a change in the law.

Yes that would make sense. But retiring them early just because they feel like doing so would be silly.

I quite like the LHCS, but I'm also looking forward to trying the new stock.

 

[Wivenswold]

The 379s are actually a very nice unit, probably the best Electrostars out there. Let's put it this way, if I was in charge of managing the changeover, I'd be getting as many crews familiarised with 379s as early as possible and throwing a few sets into service before the end of 2019 as I strongly suspect they'll be of use during the early months of 2020.

The lovely folk of Norfolk and Suffolk (and I mean that genuinely) will be getting Multiple Units shortly anyway. I think they'll be happier with 379s than the Renatus units if the Flirts are still bedding in.

 

[mic505]

Also 379's are very expensive to lease.

 

[Wivenswold]

Yes, but GA are stuck with those leasing costs until Oct 2020, might as well put them to good use until then. I suspect their leasing costs will reduce if there are no takers for them.

 

[LAX54]

The lack of anything to say about Brantham apart from 'still being worked on' at this late hour is pretty concerning. I also notice the '95% at 24-27tph' objective from the digital railway panel in the presentation. That's a lofty goal, I'm not really convinced it's achievable...

Is Brantham not now in way past tense ? plus of course level crossings nothing to do with the 'depot' !

 

[samuelmorris]

I take it to be past tense, but what I mean by talking about it, is talking about what they're going to do instead... other than the storage at Mid-Norfolk I haven't heard anything, and I'm not aware of them being able to put a full maintenance depot there./

 

[Bikeman78]

LHCS is not PRM-TSI (i.e. disability regs) compliant, so cannot be used beyond 01-Jan-20 without a change in the law.

The EMT HSTs will have to get an extension so why not get a short extension for the Norwich hauled sets if required? It would probably only be a few months. It would save a lot of time and money training Ipswich and Norwich drivers on 379s. Are 379s even route cleared to Norwich?

 

[dk1]

The EMT HSTs will have to get an extension so why not get a short extension for the Norwich hauled sets if required? It would probably only be a few months. It would save a lot of time and money training Ipswich and Norwich drivers on 379s. Are 379s even route cleared to Norwich?

Yes 379s are cleared. Would probably only train Liverpool St Anglia drivers & confine them to certain diagrams if going that far. The cost of training Ipswich & Norwich would be prohibitive for such a short period.

 

[RailWonderer]

The FLIRTS look to be on time. I'm not sure the Stansted Express will need 379s for too long nor will Norwich need the 90s too long - since the aventras are clearly delayed, 379s will probably serve GEML or Cambridge/Hertford East from summer 2019 to displace some 317s or 321s. A RAIL article quotes GA as saying they would prioritize the first launch of 745 FLIRTS. Can anyone clarify plans? As wivenswold said it makes sense to train drivers for 379s so that they can be put to good use.

 

[nesw]

There was word that Harwich Parkstone Quay might be used instead of Brantham. Is that viable?

 

[samuelmorris]

The FLIRTS look to be on time. I'm not sure the Stansted Express will need 379s for too long nor will Norwich need the 90s too long - since the aventras are clearly delayed, 379s will probably serve GEML or Cambridge/Hertford East from summer 2019 to displace some 317s or 321s. A RAIL article quotes GA as saying they would prioritize the first launch of 745 FLIRTS. Can anyone clarify plans? As wivenswold said it makes sense to train drivers for 379s so that they can be put to good use.

Very early to be calling that, they haven't started UK testing yet...

 

[dk1]

There was word that Harwich Parkstone Quay might be used instead of Brantham. Is that viable?

Sorry to be picky but it's Parkeston Quay. Last word on that is that the port authority rejected any plan & refused to allow a long enough lease. Perhaps a few more £millions would help. Enough money has been wasted already so why not throw in a few £million more?

 

[MrPIC]

I doubt they would move 379's off of the west, pointless training other crews on them when they can replace 317's (which are literally falling apart!)

 

[dk1]

I doubt they would move 379's off of the west, pointless training other crews on them when they can replace 317's (which are literally falling apart!)

I don't think people who are outside the railway industry realise the sheer hurdles & cost involved in training & relocating unfamiliar stock to a route.

 

[MrPIC]

Why anyone would think they would love 379 from an area they run regularly, where all depots sign them, to somewhere they don't really ever go, with crews that don't sign them, for a few months only, because.....? West Anglia deserves decent trains to ya know, not just the precious Anglia passengers
As I see it, the plan is surely going to be straight forward, no legacy stock will be moved from its current areas, simply replaced as new stock comes online. Anything more than that is unnecessary faff.

 

[Wivenswold]

Having worked on the safety case to get 317s on to the LTS, I'm completely aware of the hurdles of introducing new stock and I would think it's even worse these days.

Scotrail have shown you can bring in "foreign" stock at relatively short notice with the 365s. In mitigation, the 379 idea wasn't some madcap plan I just thought up, it's already been reported in Rail and Modern Railways that GA intend to use 360s and 379s as the legacy fleets with the latter on standby in case the IC 745 fleet isn't ready for 01/01/20. That plan may well have changed, possibly several times, maybe there wasn't and still isn't a plan. The info from GA has rather dried up of late.

Bad news about Parkeston though, it's getting desperate now.

 

[306024]

I don't think people who are outside the railway industry realise the sheer hurdles & cost involved in training & relocating unfamiliar stock to a route.

Or indeed some within the industry.

The crew training programme to totally replace the entire fleet, whilst still running the booked timetable, is a logistical challenge of the highest order. And that is before you get all the inevitable teething troubles with the new fleet itself. Add in all the stabling and gauging issues, NR’s level crossing assessment process and their timetable planning resources, and you’ve created a perfect storm.

Not to say it can’t all be worked through, and there are still some very capable people involved who haven’t jumped ship, but they’ll have their work cut out.

 

[Alfie1014]

The EMT HSTs will have to get an extension so why not get a short extension for the Norwich hauled sets if required? It would probably only be a few months. It would save a lot of time and money training Ipswich and Norwich drivers on 379s. Are 379s even route cleared to Norwich?

Derogations at the discretion of the Secretary of State. I'm sure he (or she) will want to minimise the number granted as the industry has had the best part of 20 years to prepare for the deadline! That said the spector of fleets of non-compiant trains sitting in sidings on 2nd January 2020 isn't going to be a good news story either! Frankly the issue is pretty much loose/loose for all involved unless it goes swimmingly and everthing gets replaced by the due date one group or another is going to be unhappy.

For GA replacing the best part of 100 non-PRM EMUs (70+ 321 and 30+ 317s) with around 60-70 new Aventras by the due date is probably going to be one huge ask too, anyone fancy a sweep on the number of short forms on day1?

 

[dk1]

All being well 170202 will be out & about from this week. After finally being reunited with its centre (56) car after it had to wait an available slot on the wheel lathe at Ilford. That was booked to be over this weekend.

 

[47421]

I am wondering whether they will need to keep 379s to run Hertford East service post 1-1-20. 317s nonPRM compliant, and unless platforms extended / signals moved / crossover moved 10 car 720s cant run there. 5 car 720s will surely not be acceptable.

I try not to be cynical about GA, but with no indication that the platform work is scheduled, and as noted above delivering all the new units and timetable being "a logistical challenge of the highest order", I am very skeptical about deliverability of their plans.

 

[delticdave]

Sorry to be picky but it's Parkeston Quay. Last word on that is that the port authority rejected any plan & refused to allow a long enough lease. Perhaps a few more £millions would help. Enough money has been wasted already so why not throw in a few £million more?

I'm surprised, do the 9 (according to Google Sat. View) electrified sidings belong to the Port Authority rather than Network Rail?
Haven't they been used in the past for "warm storage" foe EMU's?
DC

 

[dk1]

I'm surprised, do the 9 (according to Google Sat. View) electrified sidings belong to the Port Authority rather than Network Rail?
Haven't they been used in the past for "warm storage" foe EMU's?
DC

Stock is stabled there overnight especially at the moment. I suppose that maybe something more permanent as was planned for Brantham may not be permitted. Unfortunately I'm not in a place to speak about the legal & planning issue sorry.

 

[GarethC]

All being well 170202 will be out & about from this week. After finally being reunited with its centre (56) car after it had to wait an available slot on the wheel lathe at Ilford. That was booked to be over this weekend.

How does that leave the diesel fleet? Is everything back in use or are some units still going away for mods / long term repairs?

Thanks,
Gareth

 

[dk1]

How does that leave the diesel fleet? Is everything back in use or are some units still going away for mods / long term repairs?

Thanks,
Gareth

Hi, the 153 fleet are going away to Tyseley one by one for WSP mods. Apart from that it's just Day to day stuff. Ironically today was I think one of the only days (they are Monday, Friday & Saturday) that the additional DMU diagrams to Yarmouth have actually run in full.