Greater Anglia Good and Bad Discussion

[Dave1987]

Good news! the bridge at Witham is fixed for the time being........needs a longer term plan to rebuild but NR are working on that......

Before you all crow thats from the Head of NR East this evening....yes its their cock up but at least they have sorted it relatively quickly for the time being....

And Jon....bless your comments! Sidelines as usual........

You see this is the one thing I don't get, you take every single opportunity you can to criticise AGA, even harping on about how they could only resource 9 coaches on a Sunday like they should of somehow foreseen the bridge issue at Witham and had 50 buses with drivers on standby just incase. Now I bet had they done that and they were not needed you would have harped on about how they are wasting money by paying for buses that aren't needed. You seem to believe that a whole fleet of buses and drivers can be magically resourced at a moments notice.

And then on the other hand you are happy to defend NR to the hilt. Even though there are countless "temporary" speed restrictions that have been in place for months and months that NR management don't seem interested in sorting out or lifting.

And you wonder why people believe you have a vendetta against one company!

 

[387star]

Is that refurbished 317/6 out and about yet

 

[dosxuk]

And you wonder why people believe you have a vendetta against one company!

He doesn't - he used to say exactly the same things about NXEA.

 

[jon0844]

The automatic re tweeting is still going, so had today RT'd someone ranting about 'having paid for a seat'* and being forced to stand next to someone they took a dislike to, and another person who demanded to know how they could be charged £18 to go just two stops. Those two stops being Stansted to Tottenham Hale!

* Perhaps they'd got a seat reservation but I suspect not and it's just someone that thinks your ticket guarantees a seat.

 

[jopsuk]

and another person who demanded to know how they could be charged £18 to go just two stops. Those two stops being Stansted to Tottenham Hale!
.

I hope they were taking the ****... from Kings Cross on a walk-up ticket you could be charged £96.80 to go one stop!

 

[TheEdge]

You see this is the one thing I don't get, you take every single opportunity you can to criticise AGA, even harping on about how they could only resource 9 coaches on a Sunday like they should of somehow foreseen the bridge issue at Witham and had 50 buses with drivers on standby just incase. Now I bet had they done that and they were not needed you would have harped on about how they are wasting money by paying for buses that aren't needed. You seem to believe that a whole fleet of buses and drivers can be magically resourced at a moments notice.

And then on the other hand you are happy to defend NR to the hilt. Even though there are countless "temporary" speed restrictions that have been in place for months and months that NR management don't seem interested in sorting out or lifting.

AGA handled that bridge incident magnificently. I honestly think regardless of which TOC had it it couldn't have been done better. There was no way any number of buses could have been sourced on the Sunday. They put the effort in to get the engineering block shortened so services could run to Witham which wasn't possible at the start. They got bi-di services sorted as quick as they could once NR gave the OK for them. For the last week they devised a minimum disruption service plan including cancellations and stop orders where needed to cover them, a hauled set even ran ECS from Crown Point to London every day to ensure that as much of the peak in the evening could run regardless of the 06.24 being cancelled in the morning.

It appears at this point the whole incident was of NRs doing yet the blame, as always, falls at AGAs door.

As I've said before AGA, just like every other TOC, has detractors who will never be happy. I can probably safely say with not much effort we could find a Delayed_Again for every TOC in the country and every TOC will be awful and the worst in the UK according to that group. Whoever wins the next franchise will get a grace period and then they'll all pipe up again. Look at LOROL and Tfl, it took a week before they were worse than AGA...

 

[jon0844]

I hope they were taking the ****... from Kings Cross on a walk-up ticket you could be charged £96.80 to go one stop!

I resisted replying to either, but thought the exact same thing. The number of stops isn't a good way to judge fares!

 

[Dave1987]

AGA handled that bridge incident magnificently. I honestly think regardless of which TOC had it it couldn't have been done better. There was no way any number of buses could have been sourced on the Sunday. They put the effort in to get the engineering block shortened so services could run to Witham which wasn't possible at the start. They got bi-di services sorted as quick as they could once NR gave the OK for them. For the last week they devised a minimum disruption service plan including cancellations and stop orders where needed to cover them, a hauled set even ran ECS from Crown Point to London every day to ensure that as much of the peak in the evening could run regardless of the 06.24 being cancelled in the morning.

It appears at this point the whole incident was of NRs doing yet the blame, as always, falls at AGAs door.

As I've said before AGA, just like every other TOC, has detractors who will never be happy. I can probably safely say with not much effort we could find a Delayed_Again for every TOC in the country and every TOC will be awful and the worst in the UK according to that group. Whoever wins the next franchise will get a grace period and then they'll all pipe up again. Look at LOROL and Tfl, it took a week before they were worse than AGA...

Indeed totally agree! I've seen the DA account tweet that they will not stop until the DFT listen to them. The issue there is all the other similar accounts for all the other TOCs will be shouting to be heard just as loudly. Certainly the MPs know where there problem lies i.e Network Rail

 

[SPADTrap]

Is that refurbished 317/6 out and about yet

It is!

 

[TheEdge]

I'd love to know what counts as a valid excuse to DA and friends for a delay.

https://twitter.com/itvanglia/status/618294384300281856

A picture clearing showing the bridge carrying the railway with a vast amount of masonry damage and DA gives his reasonable response...

"@itvanglia if it's not one thing it's another. Just excuse puked upon excuse"

 

[GatwickDepress]

I'd love to know what counts as a valid excuse to DA and friends for a delay.

https://twitter.com/itvanglia/status/618294384300281856

A picture clearing showing the bridge carrying the railway with a vast amount of masonry damage and DA gives his reasonable response...

"@itvanglia if it's not one thing it's another. Just excuse puked upon excuse"

Obviously the bridge strike was a false flag attack by GA. Probably to suck more money out of the British taxpayer and feed it to the mandarins back in Dutchland. :roll:

I have to wonder about the kind of person who irrationally and obsessively moans about these things...

 

[jon0844]

He's got a real problem with Abellio. It may well transfer to whoever wins the next franchise, but for now he made it clear to me that he wouldn't be happy with Abellio even if they won a longer franchise and contributed towards an all new fleet of trains.

Thus, there's clearly nothing Abellio could do, EVER, that would satisfy him. Given there's obviously a chance Abellio won't make the best bid, I'd really like to see what happens if someone else gets it - because new trains or not, they'll still be running on the same infrastructure. Unless major works begin, surely the network is only going to get worse as time goes on?

It's also never been established how Tfl/LO can be applauded for cleaning up the 315s and 317s and making them look really good, so much so that many people will believe they're new stock (or at the very least newish stock brought in from elsewhere), yet the same trains are 'skips' totally unfit for purpose that should be immediately scrapped everywhere else they operate, and only brand new trains would be acceptable.

I travel on AGA 2-3 times a week and have been on every type of 317 and some of them are run down for sure, but they're still just fine in getting me from A to B. I'm still to be affected by a cancelled train, or a short formed service, and that's in almost exactly one year of using the services.

 

[samuelmorris]

I think the punctuality thing is slightly overblown - as mediocre as PPM is for measuring it, there's no arguing that Abellio are at worst in the middle of the pack for punctuality. That's not all that bad considering the state of the rolling stock they're working with. As we established in the meeting with Mr Burles himself, there's no spare income to divert to much as it's all going to the rather excessive premium payment. The difference between Abellio and the other operators' bids to run the franchise is an order of magnitude bigger than the profit Abellio are actually making on it, whether they are considered to be profiteering from the delay repay system or not. Granted, that's Abellio's failing for bidding too high, but on the other hand they may not have foreseen the franchise extension without change of terms. I'm hoping that their bid is reasonable for the long term franchise as if so, I don't necessarily see a reason why they can't turn things around. That being said, customer service isn't all that expensive and is an area where they've had questionable success.

 

[jon0844]

The big issue in the years ahead will be infrastructure related. New trains are almost a given, and could be delivered within 2-3 years (depending on whether they can be a run-on order of existing builds, or the winner is in a position to start production straight away) but without other upgrades to lines, wiring, signalling, crossings etc then there's always going to be issues that cause major delays and stop ANY operator moving up the performance league table.

We all know Virgin wouldn't bid for an operation where it's clear the operator is going to get it in the neck, and I do sometimes wonder why companies bid at all for relatively low rates of return, but the potential to do serious harm to their image and reputation.

I can see why many operators are moving to remove their names from branding. You don't see GoVia logos on GTR trains, and GWR will soon remove First branding. Go abroad and its increasingly common for there to be nothing on buses/trains (although often staff wear uniforms that show the company, such as Arriva on many Swedish services).

 

[TheNewNo2]

I made the mistake of replying to that tweet from GA Complaints. I just came home and saw my twitter mentions had exploded due to it. It probably helps that GA Complaints retweeted itself twice.

 

[HH]

To be honest, GA are going through a bad patch at the moment. Much of its NR's fault, but not all, e.g. the short forms (remember that Abellio also bid to reduce the fleet size). Nor is it NR's fault when there's not a single announcement on the train that's running slower than a pacer.

Mr Burles is a nice guy. I'm not sure if he's tough enough to be a TOC MD; some arses need kicking over in Stratford - both NR & GA!

 

[samuelmorris]

For all the arses you'd kick though, what would you expect them to do about it? There are some customer service issues that I think need addressing, but a lot of the fundamental issues AGA experience are either rolling stock related, which there's not the financial capability to do anything about, or Network Rail issues, out of their jurisdiction. The only issue at Greater Anglia that has a realistic chance of being solved before the end of the franchise is stuff like ticket office manning hours, staff attitudes and the likes. Plenty of the staff I'm sure are great and work very hard but I see an abnormal number of comments about very disinterested staff making a difficult situation worse and have experienced a few of them myself, on more than one occasion having to traverse the entire length of the eastern concourse at Liverpool Street to find a wide-aisle ticket barrier being manned by someone who isn't having a chat with a colleague, oblivious to me standing there calling over to them. Of course, if they had automated wide-aisle barriers like the Underground, that wouldn't be an issue in the first place - I understand the barrierline is being replaced, so hopefully whoever's paying for that sees fit to rectify it. Still though, being let through a barrier isn't exactly much to ask - they don't even need to check my ticket, the oyster reader can do that for me.

 

[387star]

It is!

Those interior door open buttons and the gangway door do not appear to be DDA compliant

Out of interest are tfl services announced as tfl rail

 

[GatwickDepress]

Out of interest are tfl services announced as tfl rail

They are, yes. I was at Stratford yesterday and heard it. TfL Rail also has it's own signage in the subway too.

 

[samuelmorris]

Those interior door open buttons and the gangway door do not appear to be DDA compliant

Out of interest are tfl services announced as tfl rail

I can't speak for the gangway door, but the door entry system is original from the 80s, so definitely not compliant. I'm a little baffled about why that wasn't done, given that even the 315s were done correctly back in 2004 by First / National Express. Of the 321s, only 448 is compliant for sound, but the entire fleet have the correct ridged illuminated buttons fitted. Why the 317s still haven't got them post-refurbishment, no clue.

 

[321over360]

The thing about Abellio Greater Anglia is it is fairly restricted by its current franchise requirements, plus the rolling stock is fairly old now and life expired and they seem to do their best, but most issues always will be down to the Infrastructure on the line, as most delays I experience on the GEML is down to either a track circuit failure, faulty points or a freight train clogging up the line. Other delays are down to a one under usually between Seven Kings & Romford which is outside AGA's hands however one day it will be nice to see some new EMUs on the GEML

 

[jon0844]

I don't think the rolling stock is life expired, but it does need a proper refresh.

Hopefully for AGA users, this will happen with a cascade of the stock elsewhere - and new stock brought in.

 

[samuelmorris]

Life expired - 315s yes but irrelevant, they're with TfL now - 317s arguably, though the 317/6s aren't really old enough to justify being scrapped. Train faults do cause some delays but the big ones still seem more often still NR-related from my experience. That being said, the travelling experience on the units isn't wonderful due to the state of their interiors. A proper refurbishment and AC traction package and the 321s and 317s would be largely fine for another decade other than the lack of >110mph capability. The question is whether it's worth spending that money on the 315/5/8s given their age.

 

[jon0844]

It will come down to someone doing the maths and taking a pragmatic view. Given we're seeing lots of new trains being built, it's quite likely some old trains that could be kept going will just be scrapped regardless.

I think the 317s and definitely the 321s can go on for a bit though.

 

[samuelmorris]

It's kind of why I'm disappointed (if not especially surprised) that the rapid expansion of electrification has been set back so much - routes that previously ran Pacers or Sprinters are ideal candidates for making use of such stock - As old as 315s and 317s are, compared to the state of some of the 142s, 150s, 153s and 155s, getting rid of them whilst the aforementioned DMUs are being kept in service with whatever it takes, is madness, but obviously if there's no wires up there, what can you do?

 

[dk1]

Good news for those travelling to/from Great Yarmouth on the very busy Monday & Friday changeover days. From tomorrow until 4th September relief non-stop trains will leave Norwich 09:06, 10:25, 13:18 & 14:25 returning from the coast at 09:52, 11:12, 13:53 & 15:42. As somebody who not only drives for AGA but lives in one of the villages on the Wherry Lines, it is a superb to see these additional trains on the route on the busy holiday dates & on top of the road coach thats also on standby at Norwich.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
As a footnote to the above, the first day is not looking good. Five DMUs down so the 09:06 & 10:25 return trips are caped today.

 

[Max 1986]

Disagree the 317's have been tagged to death and need completely scrapping. Where the point in wasting money on refurb for a few years more?

Constant faults on these units don't make it viable to continue with these

 

[jon0844]

I think they should be replaced and refurbished by the ROSCO if anyone else wants them.

 

[Max 1986]

Or that but either way the GEML and west Anglia routes are badly neglected and need new rolling stock as part of a new franchise but will probably not happen

 

[jon0844]

I think most stock will be replaced in the new franchise, or some new and some cascaded.