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Greater Anglia Good and Bad Discussion
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When GTR gets rid of the 321s, perhaps the DfT can find a place for them and the AGA ones, and likewise the 317s.
I agree that something similar to the 379s (110mph capable) would be ideal. Clearly the 379s are old tech now, so they'd only look the same and probably not work well together if at all (good old Bombardier!). I am sure such a train would work on any of the routes.
I do think some of the 379s are starting to look a bit shabby inside though. By all accounts, some people may already consider them skips and worthy of scrapping. I mean, they must be a few years old now...
When GTR gets rid of the 321s, perhaps the DfT can find a place for them and the AGA ones, and likewise the 317s.
I agree that something similar to the 379s (110mph capable) would be ideal. Clearly the 379s are old tech now, so they'd only look the same and probably not work well together if at all (good old Bombardier!). I am sure such a train would work on any of the routes.
I do think some of the 379s are starting to look a bit shabby inside though. By all accounts, some people may already consider them skips and worthy of scrapping. I mean, they must be a few years old now...
Agree need scrapping and they are skips....... Guys on Twitter are right if you want these wrecks take them for your lines
So four year old trains are now "skips" and need scrapping as well :roll:. Well good look with you Twitter campaign there. Telling the DFT everything on GEML needs scrapping and replaced with new is unlikely to get them to listen to you.
If you love them that much put them in your garden. Changes your tune again from earlier Dave about how a new fleet would come. Contradicting yourself like always
Why delete your Twitter account?
GatwickDepress
Established Member
379s are skips now? 
They're a little shabby inside but all they really need is some TLC.
They're a little shabby inside but all they really need is some TLC.
CC 72100
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Trolling or just clueless?
No you are calling for everything on GEML to be scrapped. Which is absolutely ridiculous. Coming out with the usual Twitter rubbish. The new franchise will probably mean new trains are ordered. To replace the entire fleet would cost an enormous amount of money which will need to be paid for. You are calling for a huge amount of trains to be scrapped which given a decent refurb would be fine, they don't have to stay on GEML. We all know that the Twitter mob will stand for nothing less than a complete new fleet, but as I said that would cost serious money and would need to be paid for.
I deleted my Twitter account due to the personal abuse I was getting from the Twitter trolls. And there is no point trying to have a conversation with Delayed_again due to his blind hatred of AGA and obsession with scrapping anything that's over 10 yrs old.
No doubt even if a new fleet is ordered there will be another DA in 20 yrs calling for that fleet to be scrapped and another new fleet to be ordered....
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stu227
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Quite. And Ian's abuse of anyone who dares to disagree with him.
You lot are not interested in listening to anyone elses opinions. If your biased opinion is not accepted then thats it.
Abuse from Ian?? Like what?? disagreeing with you?? hardly abuse is it??
oh the irony!
Oh Come on.......
You say Ian has a personal Vendetta aginst AGA yet you wont listen to his opinions. You just dont like be proven wrong. Self obssessed the lot of you.
My head hurts....
Because most of the stuff that spouts is rubbish. DA claims every train is "flea infested". I have spent the last two and a half years of my working life spending 8 hours a day on AGA trains, I've never received a flea bite.
Then there is the seemingly utter refusal to accept that any issue could not be down to AGA. Network Rail, Freightliner and GBRf being three parties all responsible for their share of the issues but its all GA, see...
My head hurts....
Because most of the stuff that spouts is rubbish. DA claims every train is "flea infested". I have spent the last two and a half years of my working life spending 8 hours a day on AGA trains, I've never received a flea bite.
Then there is the seemingly utter refusal to accept that any issue could not be down to AGA. Network Rail, Freightliner and GBRf being three parties all responsible for their share of the issues but its all GA, see...
8 hours a day on AGA sounds about right. Delayed alot were they?
You cant try and pretend that you have not seen the state of those so called "trains"
And 99% of the time it is AGA problems that cause carnage. We have proven day in and day out that they are liars
No, for the last three days every train I've been on in the last 3 days (16) have been nicely on time.
Define state? Is state endless copies of discarded Metros left on seats, is state external road grime? When your groups have tweeted pictures of a whole lone discarded coffee cup as evidence of trains being in an awful state I find it hard to accept your claims.
What? Really? So signal failures are AGAs fault? As are OHL failures? And when Freightliners locos sit down, AGAs fault too? Out of interest, is the growth of ISIS AGAs fault?
CC 72100
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Classic.
Only you on time then..... what about the thousands who report delays daily?
Hahaha so obviously you dont think so then, you keep paying and getting fleeced.
Now your just being silly - you and your pals have been offered a chance to meet for a healthy debate but none of you want to. And just to clarify we are not a group.
You must have tunnel vision because according to you nothing is AGA fault.
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I assume where you say classic you mean old so must be referring to AGA fleet of skips
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What about the constant train faults, constant toilets out of order, broken windows even this morning someone had an electrical cupboard door onboard swing open and hit themn and you say these are not AGA faults and its not a state??
The list goes on and on and on
I begin to think I am wasting my breath here.
I never said AGA never has issues, like any TOC they do. However you and your chums put far too much emphasis on everything being all AGAs fault when so much of it isn't.
Today, lineside fire? How, please, is that AGAs fault?
Wednesday, fatality? How was that AGAs fault?
This week in general. Re-occuring crossing fault at Great Bentley, AGAs fault how?
A few weeks ago. Utter choas brought down when Freightliner had a service fail twice between Ipswich and Colchester? Again, how is that AGAs fault?
Can you genuinely, objectively say, the incidents where there has been real, genuine service disabling issues (I don't mean a single cancellation or a short form, which is inconvenient but not choas) has been solely, if at all, AGAs fault?
I begin to think I am wasting my breath here.
I never said AGA never has issues, like any TOC they do. However you and your chums put far too much emphasis on everything being all AGAs fault when so much of it isn't.
Today, lineside fire? How, please, is that AGAs fault?
Wednesday, fatality? How was that AGAs fault?
This week in general. Re-occuring crossing fault at Great Bentley, AGAs fault how?
A few weeks ago. Utter choas brought down when Freightliner had a service fail twice between Ipswich and Colchester? Again, how is that AGAs fault?
Can you genuinely, objectively say, the incidents where there has been real, genuine service disabling issues (I don't mean a single cancellation or a short form, which is inconvenient but not choas) has been solely, if at all, AGAs fault?
We are going around in circles here
How about meeting us and we will lay it out across the table and have a proper deebate about it like grown ups?
I know Dave wouldnt because he is too busy changing his mind all the time.
We are not going round. You are refusing to address the points that there is so much more the to issues of the GEML and WAML that just shouting and screaming like petulant children about AGA and dirty trains will achieve.
There is no point in trying to have a proper debate with you solely because you will not listen to reason. You will only listen to people who agree with your views, all you have to do to see that is trawl through DA where it is just sycophant upon sycophant. I will concede there are issues that are solely AGA at fault but you will not do the same when it comes to admitting the real service issues fall far more at NRs feet than AGAs.
43074
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There was an interesting graph in the previous issue of Rail showing the proportion of delay minutes caused by Network Rail, the TOC and those caused by other operators for 2014-15: For AGA these broke down as 64% caused by NR, 30% self inflicted and 6% caused by other operators. For comparison Southern's figures were 63%, 30% and 7% respectively, SWT 69%, 25% and 6% and FGW 60%, 27% and 13%... Showing that in terms of 'TOC on self' delays, AGA are no worse than other similar TOCs, and that NR causes more delays than the TOCs themselves whatever the anti-AGA brigade may say.
I personally find AGA provide a decent service, but one that isn't without its flaws and it should be apparent that where they exist are not necessarily their own fault. Some of them are a result of the state of the franchise when they took over, others are longer term issues which need long term fixes, e.g. the state of NRs infrastructure, or the national shortage of DMUs.
It needs informed debate from both sides, calling each other 'morons' isn't exactly helpful.
I personally find AGA provide a decent service, but one that isn't without its flaws and it should be apparent that where they exist are not necessarily their own fault. Some of them are a result of the state of the franchise when they took over, others are longer term issues which need long term fixes, e.g. the state of NRs infrastructure, or the national shortage of DMUs.
It needs informed debate from both sides, calling each other 'morons' isn't exactly helpful.
grumblingalong
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Spot on.
He does though. He may well have many valid points (I really do think he does FWIW) but the fact he will pick on any and every trivial thing just shows it's personal. It's not a belief we have, it's proven by the actions of him and others.
When Wayne started this thread (you might know him
) there was a bit more balance, but now it seems like a vendetta against Abellio. The issues started when details of meetings couldn't be shared, implying there were plans of action that couldn't be made public - and likely because it is so personal, and some of the tactics are somewhat underhand.Again, you can follow on Twitter to see that everything is really personal, and for what reason? It's like having something to complain about makes some people feel important and their life worth living - and maybe something else is missing in their life?
(You could say the same about me, but I've got two days off work having building work done so I have got time to write things like this)
I can't quite fathom why there's the hatred when surely anyone that has such an interest in the quality of service provided should also know how the industry works, or have attempted to find out, and know what the terms and requirements of the current franchise are.
So, all this constant talk about 'skips' and needing brand new trains cannot and will not happen during this franchise. It wasn't going to happen WHOEVER won. Thus, strip Abellio of the franchise and someone else comes in and carries on AS IS. So why is this something that is talked about EVERY SINGLE DAY? It's pointless.
Just as it is pointless saying the trains are only fit for scrap. If they got a makeover, they'd seem like new. Upgrade the traction and they'd be reliable too.
Surely Ian and the rest know this? They have every right to be upset about the state of the trains (reliability issues, short forming) but to go on about seat coverings not matching is insane. That's evidence that Abellio is at least trying to fix seats that are being damaged/vandalised by passengers. There can't be loads of spare seats and coverings lying about, and if you're working trains hard then it's not practical to take them out of service for days to be re-covered properly, as that means more short forming and cancellations.
Can't anyone see these things? You demand one thing, but then demand something else that totally contradicts the first. Pick what's important and stick with that, then when that's sorted THEN move on to the other thing.
You'd imagine Ian knows that most other problems are down to Network Rail or just the line itself being in a very poor state, and he would have taken an interest in timetabling to see how you might fit in more services, or speed up services, and know that to do so will lead to compromises being made elsewhere.
You'd think that people would understand and appreciate that there are also other things like the logistics of moving stock around, where it can fit, driver hours, freight train movements that also use the line and so on.
I am no expert, and no train spotter (despite what they say on Twitter) but as a commuter of many years, I have shown an interest in the way things are run and engaged with companies when I've had a problem - most notably through the online 'meet the director' forums that we once had.
As a result of a complaint, but made in a respectful way, I got to visit a TOC and sat down with the MD and other staff to look at pathing and discuss how to get a new service to fill a long gap in service on a weekday morning, which resulted in a service being added two years later.
I could have moaned every single day, but I knew and accepted that timetable changes can't happen overnight, and need to be carefully planned and approved, notified and implemented.
I've said it millions of times; stick to the serious matters. Drop the silly websites, the Twitter accounts with 'sucks' in the name but trying to pass themselves off as official, and re-tweeting every Tweet from people say things that nobody considers important after waking up the next day. Especially the misinformed rants that every industry gets from the general public.
I'm amazed that Ian doesn't actually defend Abellio when someone is moaning about something that has nothing to do with them. THEN you'd see him as someone who has the best interest of the commuter at heart, rather than someone who tries to get support for his campaign to get rid of Abellio and with no apparent plan on how to fix any of the problems.
Getting rid of Abellio does what exactly?
I'd be moaning about the poor maintenance of the rolling stock, leading to trains that are cancelled or short formed, not bother about the state of the floors or a toilet that's out of service, or the state of the tracks from toilets without retention tanks (a recent one) as if Abellio has any ability to wash the tracks. And, again, it's passengers at fault. And should trains that are seen as skips be fitted with tanks?
I'd stop moaning about how much I pay for travel, at the same time as demanding more money is spent on everything. I'd stop blaming poor cleaning when I've travelled enough to see a train wrecked by people on just one journey. I've watched the cleaners and they work very hard for very little money, desperately trying to clean up mess that anyone with any respect wouldn't dump on the floor and seats.
TL; DR - You need to work with the very people you're slating every day, or else you'll just be ignored. Just because you can meet some key staff every now and then, because they've been advised to meet you for PR reasons, doesn't mean they have any respect for you.
I've said this many times. Now I know that later today this post will be Tweeted and I'll be called the spotter who hates commuters and thinks Abellio should be let off the hook. It's amazing how so much of what has been written is misunderstood, likely deliberately, just to continue a flawed argument.
I often wonder, now that I use AGA regularly, who actually does represent users and who really does have good ideas and a relationship with AGA to help get things done and improve the service. Does anyone know?
I can't understand why you keep asking 'us' to meet for drinks and discuss. [Mod - several repeated such demands deleted] I have my own places to drink and socialise, and use my down time and spare time to post on here (often rather too much, it has to be said).
But there comes a time when I let my hair down and do other things, so I can't think of anything worse than sitting in a pub talking about the state of the railways.
It sounds like an incredibly nerdy thing to do, 'special' even, but whatever floats your boat.
I also can't stand to imagine the sort of talk that would also occur, like the state of the seats, how dirty the last glass was and how the failure to get served, despite paying almost £5 a pint, means the bar staff should be sacked and replaced.
What I can say though is that whatever is discussed at these meetings isn't working. Maybe one day when people grow up a little and move into the real world, a proper plan will be established and a list of priorities drawn up.
And no, one part of that plan shouldn't be wasting time trying to get at people on here and registering loads of new accounts with aliases to start some well planned attack. When loads of new people spring up in the coming days and weeks, it will be somewhat obvious.
You proved my point perfectly! No, I am not holding commuters/passengers (what's the difference?) to blame as always. I am merely pointing out that there's a clear difference between things down to passengers and things down to AGA.
Concentrate on the latter and ignore the former.
If you use AGA so much more than I do, you can't tell me for one second that you don't see the way passengers treat trains. That people don't know how easy it is to pull up seat bases (or the backs). I've seen them being kicked around, and years ago (back in the Wagn days) seen seat bases thrown off trains when stopped at a station. Littering is rife, feet on seats so common it's not even funny, and people puking on seats and around the toilets.
Not all of this is at night either.
Keeping trains clean is not easy, and even if you have a cleaner at every station and for every turnaround, you can't fix seats or toilets straight away. That's a fact, but you'd argue forever that AGA is at fault.
And, finally, please spell my name correctly. You keep getting it wrong on Twitter too...
But there comes a time when I let my hair down and do other things, so I can't think of anything worse than sitting in a pub talking about the state of the railways.
It sounds like an incredibly nerdy thing to do, 'special' even, but whatever floats your boat.
I also can't stand to imagine the sort of talk that would also occur, like the state of the seats, how dirty the last glass was and how the failure to get served, despite paying almost £5 a pint, means the bar staff should be sacked and replaced.
What I can say though is that whatever is discussed at these meetings isn't working. Maybe one day when people grow up a little and move into the real world, a proper plan will be established and a list of priorities drawn up.
And no, one part of that plan shouldn't be wasting time trying to get at people on here and registering loads of new accounts with aliases to start some well planned attack. When loads of new people spring up in the coming days and weeks, it will be somewhat obvious.
You proved my point perfectly! No, I am not holding commuters/passengers (what's the difference?) to blame as always. I am merely pointing out that there's a clear difference between things down to passengers and things down to AGA.
Concentrate on the latter and ignore the former.
If you use AGA so much more than I do, you can't tell me for one second that you don't see the way passengers treat trains. That people don't know how easy it is to pull up seat bases (or the backs). I've seen them being kicked around, and years ago (back in the Wagn days) seen seat bases thrown off trains when stopped at a station. Littering is rife, feet on seats so common it's not even funny, and people puking on seats and around the toilets.
Not all of this is at night either.
Keeping trains clean is not easy, and even if you have a cleaner at every station and for every turnaround, you can't fix seats or toilets straight away. That's a fact, but you'd argue forever that AGA is at fault.
And, finally, please spell my name correctly. You keep getting it wrong on Twitter too...
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So we are nerds? Why are you on here then JON?
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Not to discuss the railways or for a healthy debate then?
I joined here because I had an interest in the railway brought on by using it daily, and wondering why things were as they were.
I didn't understand about the things that seem obvious now, and got a valued perspective on things. It means that if you talk about fixing problems, you know what the problems are and what the fixes might be.
You engage with people that actually work in the industry. You call this a spotters forum, blissfully unaware that a sizeable number of people are actually railway EMPLOYEES. They know how things work and are people can help action changes, or give advice.
In other words, anyone with half a brain would have been engaging on here in a polite and professional manner and helping to bring about solutions and suggestions that could have actually helped action changes on AGA, or any other TOC.
But, you act like 12 year olds and think you're getting somewhere. In well over a year of seeing these Twitter rants, I see no improvements that could be attributed to you whatsoever.
Hence why I wonder who might actually run an organisation that could help AGA users.
It matters not how much you insult me or others, as I have no power or influence to change anything. Thus you're wasting your time and I don't care. It's social media; here today gone tomorrow.
Problem is, your cause is just as irrelevant and God knows people have wasted a lot of time trying to actually help you. It always falls on deaf ears and with comebacks that are quite amazing, like your gay joke just now.
With a bunch of people hiding behind aliases and with no power or influence? I could strike up a conversation with fellow passengers on a train that has broken down and get the same result. (Hint; nothing).
Maybe you should look up what 'healthy debate' means. For one, it means people with differing views listening to others and discussing - sometimes, and very often, changing opinions as a result or compromising. I'm always up for a debate, but my goodness is that impossible on here. (Here being this thread, not the forum, before you misquote).
So, please PLEASE tell me how you debate with anyone? You merely attack those with a differing view and don't listen to anything. As proven by you taking one of my posts and replying with a single sentence that suggests you didn't even read it. Why would you? You just scan for keywords. Oh, he said passenger so I'll reply that he's blaming the passenger. Can't be arsed to read the rest...
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Clearly you are not open to discussion (none of the people on here) so you are only interested in your own views. SOme points you have made are valid but if you wont discuss then whats the point.
We engage through different means and its not a personal vendetta against AGA as you keep going on about. If its Network Rail we go at them also.
You have the cheek to call us 12 year olds but your writing like a 4 year old and thats why you can not grow up and have a proper debate.
And i was merely highlighting that your cronie was on about riding men to London. Im not interested in that as clearly has sod all to do with trains.
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