Greater Anglia Good and Bad Discussion

[jon0844]

There are separate threads that are very critical of the things AGA do that need to be dealt with, such as the issue of giving PFs to people with contact less cards.

In fact, I don't think anyone here has ever defended the indefensible, but it's almost impossible to see how some people could demand Abellio is stripped off its franchise because when doing repairs on trains it has had to use seat cushions with a different covering. I assume the original seat covers were vandalised, perhaps even torn off and thrown off the train, so having a seat with no base or back would be far worse.

If Abellio had won c2c or ICEC, I am sure some people would still moan.

FWIW, I don't associate you with these people and never have.

 

[TheEdge]

I've placed two straight facts there and my post has been selectively quoted to entirely ignore the TOC whose stats I also provided, stats which are worse still than Abellio's - stats that therefore paint AGA in a somewhat positive light. Not one person has even mentioned the fact that I put Thameslink's punctuality stats in the post. There's another complicated railway, and it's even less punctual than AGA. Nobody seems to have noticed. They're too busy having a fit at the fact that I used the word 'c2c' in my post.

The reason I didn't include the TL bit is I didn't need to, it didn't make up my point where as c2c did. The Thameslink comparison is fairer, although maybe its unfair to TL as Liverpool Street isn't being torn up. But in your post you directly compare c2c and AGA pointing out how much more delayed AGA services are...

I'm every bit as aware that c2c is a simpler operation to run than AGA and as a result is going to be a bit more punctual. No argument here. The fact that another better-performing TOC is a simpler operation is not free license to run trains as late as you like.

No one said it is. Its just that using c2c in any comparison with AGA is utterly pointless given how different they are.

AGA is far from the disaster that some of the twitter campaigners proclaim it to be in terms of punctuality, as you can see I've used their services a hundred times already this year and only this weekend had my first delay over 30 minutes - incidentally 30.5. Nonetheless, the dismissive attitude of this forum thread is really little better than the 'doom & gloomers' on twitter, just the polar opposite.

No one with a proper understanding of the situation is going to tell you everything is brilliant with AGA and the sun shines out of their backside, just as is the case for every TOC everywhere. But when people are noting down every delay and going off on delays of 3 or 4 minutes it becomes very hard to take it all seriously. If my journey was meant to take 27 minutes and instead took 30 I doubt I would notice and I would put money on it that 99% of people would not notice either unless they were looking for it.

 

[387star]

Looks like AGA complaints is going to make it on bbc essex tomorrow

... @Delayed_Again: URGENT Please send your pictures of filthy abellio trains to @BBCEssex for tomorrow morning radio show!

@Delayed_Again: We will be on @BBCEssex tomorrow at 7.20am talking about the disgusting state of the trains!

 

[86246]

Looks like AGA complaints is going to make it on bbc essex tomorrow

... @Delayed_Again: URGENT Please send your pictures of filthy abellio trains to @BBCEssex for tomorrow morning radio show!

@Delayed_Again: We will be on @BBCEssex tomorrow at 7.20am talking about the disgusting state of the trains!

He was on BBC Radio Suffolk earlier this year also. They certainly give him the airtime.

 

[306024]

Looks like AGA complaints is going to make it on bbc essex tomorrow

... @Delayed_Again: URGENT Please send your pictures of filthy abellio trains to @BBCEssex for tomorrow morning radio show!

@Delayed_Again: We will be on @BBCEssex tomorrow at 7.20am talking about the disgusting state of the trains!

I'll look forward to seeing those pictures on my radio

 

[SPADTrap]

Looks like AGA complaints is going to make it on bbc essex tomorrow

... @Delayed_Again: URGENT Please send your pictures of filthy abellio trains to @BBCEssex for tomorrow morning radio show!

@Delayed_Again: We will be on @BBCEssex tomorrow at 7.20am talking about the disgusting state of the trains!

Photos for a radio show?

 

[devon_metro]

I think a lot of AGA's problems stem from the infrastructure. The other week there was a lenghtly 20mph TSR from Bethnal Green to Bow Jn which causes inevitable knock on delays. I think there are still numerous TSRs on the approach to Liverpool Street, which hopefully will be remedied with this weekends engineering works. Admittedly I only travel Stratford to Liverpool Street however the trains I catch are generally delayed by a few minutes.

 

[SPADTrap]

I think a lot of AGA's problems stem from the infrastructure. The other week there was a lenghtly 20mph TSR from Bethnal Green to Bow Jn which causes inevitable knock on delays. I think there are still numerous TSRs on the approach to Liverpool Street, which hopefully will be remedied with this weekends engineering works. Admittedly I only travel Stratford to Liverpool Street however the trains I catch are generally delayed by a few minutes.

Thankfully the up road 20mph TSR at the start of Bishopsgate tunnel on the West side suburban is now gone.

 

[jon0844]

I'll look forward to seeing those pictures on my radio

I saw some of the photos today (on Twitter). Threadbare seats on Desiros and a mark that's probably chocolate but I'm sure will be described as excrement.

Not particularly nice, but hardly reason to strip a company of its franchise?

Still, it means a bunch of new followers for the guy and a boost to his ego. Shame he'll still be ignored by AGA, besides giving him and others associated with him the usual PR friendly responses.

 

[Dave1987]

Just listened to it on the BBC IPlayer. Thought the presenter was very balanced indeed. Will Quince (who is my MP) sounded exactly like a new MP who needs to prove himself, he made himself sound like a bit of an idiot though when the presenter asked him if commuters should take a bit of responsibility in not leaving their rubbish everywhere. He was trying extremely hard to make out it wasn't the commuters fault there is rubbish left on the trains. Mr Ian Edwards (AKA Delayed_again) sounded like a man on a power rush. Some points he made were valid, but some of the stuff he clearly wanted to get in there were just ridiculous. This is clearly a man who has a deep hatred of one company, Abellio.

 

[jon0844]

These are some of the photos. All the fault of Abellio obviously.

I wonder how old some of these photos are. Quite possibly predating Abellio. In fact, possibly not all from trains on AGA either!

 

[cmovcc]

"Abellio Greater Anglia's train fleet branded 'dirty' and 'flea-infested' by complaints website"

http://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/Abe...leet-branded/story-26575483-detail/story.html

(on the front page of Cambridge News)

 

[387star]

I must say it is disappointing how awful the 360s have become they shouod be the pride of the fleet

 

[dk1]

I must say it is disappointing how awful the 360s have become they shouod be the pride of the fleet

Pride of the 'Outer Suburban' Fleet. We'll leave the INTERCITY fleet to hold the top accolade

 

[Dave1987]

Pride of the 'Outer Suburban' Fleet. We'll leave the INTERCITY fleet to hold the top accolade

Would love to hear you say that in any mess room south of Ipswich. Passed an intercity set standing at a red the other day and my DM jokingly said he must be filling out an RT3185 now because he has been stopped at a red.

 

[450.emu]

It's on BBC London News right now... obviously it's a handful of passengers (probably kids) leaving this mess which is wrong, but it's still down to their cleaning contractors (if they have any) to clear the crap up, sadly... Essex Rail Users Federation has featured on the news. Peter Meades from AGA said that 'they are bringing in 40 extra cleaners to bring the total up to 300, (10% of the workforce)'. Apparently their franchise is only running for anther two years so won't invest in any heavy refurbs as it would be uneconomic. (add cleaning to that as well, I guess) They are spending more on refurbishing their Intercity stock according to the news.

The newest stock, being the 379's and 360's should be looked after, along with their newer diesels... They spent so much on the 2014 rebrand just to add in their name in (Greater Anglia was fine) when they could have gave cleaning contractors incentives to keep the trains clean. I've only noticed the cleaners on the Stansted Express (in the short turn around time before the train heads back out) and that's someone clutching a large clear bag and dashing on and off the carriages. I've never noticed any cleaners board the trains on the West Anglia lines (I wonder if they are on zero hour contracts so may just be 300 on paper?) :cry:

 

[dk1]

Would love to hear you say that in any mess room south of Ipswich. Passed an intercity set standing at a red the other day and my DM jokingly said he must be filling out an RT3185 now because he has been stopped at a red.

Just how it should be. My proudest moment so far is driving 1P15 East Anglian & after a 8min delay at Ipswich awaiting a portable GSM-R no less than five EMUs where looped or held to allow me to pass & terminate 3 early into Liverpool St. This would be even more apt now the Canaries are back in the top flight & well & truly 'The Pride of Anglia'

 

[Shunter_69]

Similar article on BBC Look East and everyone interviewed said their train was clean!

 

[387star]

This from east anglia blog: Whilst on the subject of AbellioGreaterAnglia refurbishments, they're expecting to begin their Class 317/6 refresh in the upcoming weeks. Once complete, Class 360s will follow to have new seat covers, followed by the 3-Car 170s for the same treatment.

 

[LAX54]

These are some of the photos. All the fault of Abellio obviously.

I wonder how old some of these photos are. Quite possibly predating Abellio. In fact, possibly not all from trains on AGA either!

some do look 'set up' too !

 

[dk1]

I very rarely use the WA as always choose the Kings Cross route if going via Cambridge. I do though travel the short hop to/from Whittlesford Parkway & even sent pics to our WA performance manager of the awful state of those 317s that NX did up (if you can call it that) to attatch to the StanEx even though they've got 3+2 seating. It was the rust on the grills, falling apart seating & grimy headrests that got me. Now compare that with the next train formed of 379 stock & the contrast is so stark.

 

[Dave1987]

Just how it should be. My proudest moment so far is driving 1P15 East Anglian & after a 8min delay at Ipswich awaiting a portable GSM-R no less than five EMUs where looped or held to allow me to pass & terminate 3 early into Liverpool St. This would be even more apt now the Canaries are back in the top flight & well & truly 'The Pride of Anglia'

One of my colleague's was being put over at Witham on the down road, stopped at the signal just before and queried the route. Was told that he was being put over to allow a late running Norwich set through, to which be argued about him being late and cutting into his PNB (quite right to), after a protracted discussion he crawled into Plat 4. This made the Norwich even later. He then got 12 for a spoilt PNB

 

[450.emu]

.....

 

[dk1]

One of my colleague's was being put over at Witham on the down road, stopped at the signal just before and queried the route. Was told that he was being put over to allow a late running Norwich set through, to which be argued about him being late and cutting into his PNB (quite right to), after a protracted discussion he crawled into Plat 4. This made the Norwich even later. He then got 12 for a spoilt PNB

I'd have wanted 2hrs off roster too!! Every cloud & all that. I can hear the screams of PPM! PPM! still haha.

 

[Wivenswold]

Well I'm quitting London after 8 years of no improvements but year on year above inflation/Deflation fare rises. But my main problem is not with Abellio or Network Rail, it's the whole short-termism of the current franchising model. Either give companies proper franchises and manage them tightly (not that the DfT is capable of that) or put the trains and stations back into public hands with the rest of Network Rail and set out an investment plan that will put the network back on the way to profitability.

I agree that picking holes discredits genuine examples of bad service. Abellio aren't actually that bad, but they are as bad as the DfT will allow without there being a serious passenger revolt.

I'd love to know how many of those complaining voted Conservative. For those who did, you get the railway service you deserve. Tories have never been pro-rail unless it's a big shiny ego project.

 

[450.emu]

some do look 'set up' too !

One of the piles of rubbish is quite neat - almost a rectangle of filth rather than spread across all under the seat - perhaps the cleaner was on his way to fetch a dustpan and brush to finish cleaning it up before the unfortunate pictures were taken

I think I've worked out where the majority of the 300 cleaners are - in Scotland, looking after their newly won Scotrail franchise :roll:

I do think if they had a longer franchise, they would care a little more. Why did DfT make the GA franchise so short? I think they're still planning to move the ticket hall at Liverpool Street to near the First Class Lounge, not far from the taxi rank and the NR Station Reception. Even though it's half the size of the current one and quite out of the way (though hopefully with no cockroaches coming from their air vents or that dreadful hum of sewage from time to time) You will then have to walk even further across the station to get a ticket for the Underground, unless they are letting TfL have a couple of windows, Tottenham Hale stylee

 

[dk1]

I do think if they had a longer franchise, they would care a little more. Why did DfT make the GA franchise so short?

Because its not a franchise just an extension after extension due to issues with NX & then the whole WCML cock-up.

 

[306024]

Well I'm quitting London after 8 years of no improvements but year on year above inflation/Deflation fare rises. But my main problem is not with Abellio or Network Rail, it's the whole short-termism of the current franchising model. Either give companies proper franchises and manage them tightly (not that the DfT is capable of that) or put the trains and stations back into public hands with the rest of Network Rail and set out an investment plan that will put the network back on the way to profitability.

I agree that picking holes discredits genuine examples of bad service. Abellio aren't actually that bad, but they are as bad as the DfT will allow without there being a serious passenger revolt.

I'd love to know how many of those complaining voted Conservative. For those who did, you get the railway service you deserve. Tories have never been pro-rail unless it's a big shiny ego project.

Very fair comments. Totally agree about the short-termism, hasn't helped anyone.

Good to see the old GE v Anglia rivalry isn't dead yet too

 

[Wivenswold]

I do think if they had a longer franchise, they would care a little more. Why did DfT make the GA franchise so short?

As I recall, there was a Governmental decision to change the franchising process with a move towards longer contracts. Then the First West Coast fiasco put that back even further.

I suspect the new Government will announce something rather pro-private sector soon enough.

 

[jon0844]

I travel on AGA once or twice a week now and have seen cleaning teams working at Liverpool Street, Stratford and also on the trains quite a few times. They do exist, but if I travel home around 4pm and the trains are full of school kids then rest assured by the time the train arrives at Liverpool Street it will be a right state. If there's any delay and a tight turnaround then I can imagine some trains can't be totally cleared and by then you're looking at them forming rush hour services.

I'm not entirely sure how any operator can be at fault for this.

When I get trains from King's Cross a lot of them have started at KGX and came from Hornsey depot so will have had loads of time to be cleaned.

Frankly, there are issues that won't easily be fixed until you can clamp down on the offenders who leave litter and put feet on seats. I've never been on a route where so many people show so little respect for other passengers or the trains themselves.

Even people in suits in first class put their feet up, presumably thinking that because the seats are worn that it isn't a problem. They obviously can't appreciate that they're the reason the seats get like that. (okay, perhaps the 360s are excessively worn, but I bet the 317/6s with the new grey covers will look bad in no time).