Greater Anglia Class 755s (Regional Trains)

[43096]

Nice photos. I look forward to seeing them down here.

Has anyone found the powered/unpowered bogie layout for these units? With the 755s it's pretty straightforward, traction motors at each end, power unit in the middle, all articulated bogies unpowered, but with the 745 there are far more unarticulated bogies than would need to be powered (especially with enormous 650kW traction motors), but I can't see any obvious indication from those pictures which ones are.

Motor bogies are leading and trailing ends of each 6-car half set. So the wheel arrangement for a complete set is:
Bo-2-2 + 2-2-2 + 2-2-Bo + Bo-2-2 + 2-2-2 + 2-2-Bo

 

[samuelmorris]

Motor bogies are leading and trailing ends of each 6-car half set. So the wheel arrangement for a complete set is:
Bo-2-2 + 2-2-2 + 2-2-Bo + Bo-2-2 + 2-2-2 + 2-2-Bo

Ah of course, don't know why I didn't think of that before, makes sense. So presumably then a 5200kW rating for the 12-car set, which I imagine compares similarly to that of the Aventras (going off a 345 being 4500kW continuous in 200m form). That should see pretty decent acceleration even compared to the 360s, let alone the existing LHCS.

 

[themiller]

British stock does look like a toy train, doesn't it? Or a Swiss narrow gauge unit, which I guess it probably pretty much is.

Don't lose sight of the fact that the Re460 is a very tall loco. If you compare the translator coach with the 745, there's not too much difference. Also, if you look up the dimensions of the Seetal Line FLIRTs, they're built to a narrow loading gauge because of the nature of the route they work. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RABe_520 which gives their width as 2.65m which is very narrow by British standards.

 

[Grumbler]

Nice photos. I look forward to seeing them down here.

Has anyone found the powered/unpowered bogie layout for these units? With the 755s it's pretty straightforward, traction motors at each end, power unit in the middle, all articulated bogies unpowered, but with the 745 there are far more unarticulated bogies than would need to be powered (especially with enormous 650kW traction motors), but I can't see any obvious indication from those pictures which ones are.

There's a post early on in this thread about this. The wheels under the cabs will be powered, as will those in the centre of the train, i.e. 8 axles in all. The other 8 "normal" bogies will be unpowered (perhaps thet should be called 2-gies to distinguish them from Bo-gies?).

So each half-set will have three pairs of articulated vehicles (Bo J 2 , 2 J 2 , 2 J Bo).

That's double the number of powered axles that an existing inter-city set has.

 

[delticdave]

Ah of course, don't know why I didn't think of that before, makes sense. So presumably then a 5200kW rating for the 12-car set, which I imagine compares similarly to that of the Aventras (going off a 345 being 4500kW continuous in 200m form). That should see pretty decent acceleration even compared to the 360s, let alone the existing LHCS.

If you want to compare acceleration / performance then the quickest trains on the GA network will be the 3-car 755's, 2600kW per unit in electric mode....
AFAIK, the "Norwich in 90" services are to be scheduled for pairs of bi-modes because they should better able to meet the new schedules than any other available trains.

 

[samuelmorris]

If you want to compare acceleration / performance then the quickest trains on the GA network will be the 3-car 755's, 2600kW per unit in electric mode....
AFAIK, the "Norwich in 90" services are to be scheduled for pairs of bi-modes because they should better able to meet the new schedules than any other available trains.

Yeah, I can see the acceleration on those units being limited more by adhesion than power output.
The Norwich in 90 services are, to my knowledge, only going to be pairs of 755s until the 745 fleet is ready for use, are they not?

 

[delticdave]

Yeah, I can see the acceleration on those units being limited more by adhesion than power output.
The Norwich in 90 services are, to my knowledge, only going to be pairs of 755s until the 745 fleet is ready for use, are they not?

Yes, that's my impression too. From reading info elsewhere the May '19 timetable shows all the 90 minute services are std. class only. As for the 745's, they will be introduced as/when they're available.

 

[Railperf]

Is there any news on how many units are now in the UK and how well the testing may be going?

 

[robreed90001]

Is there any news on how many units are now in the UK and how well the testing may be going?

only 4 units in the UK at present (755405, 406, 407 and 408), all of which have been delivered to NCP.

 

[fenman35]

only 4 units in the UK at present (755405, 406, 407 and 408), all of which have been delivered to NCP.

3 at Norwich 1 at Cambridge

 

[dk1]

De-vegitation has started Victoria Sidings in readiness for the arrival of the 745 fleet. Looks like room for 3 or 4 units here.

 

[Scottychoo]

Minus the 1 that has been returned to Stadler due to being fuelled with inferior quality diesel!

 

[Bletchleyite]

Minus the 1 that has been returned to Stadler due to being fuelled with inferior quality diesel!

Whoops!

 

[samuelmorris]

Minus the 1 that has been returned to Stadler due to being fuelled with inferior quality diesel!

Back across the channel just for that, really? Even if contamination means replacing parts, surely the whole unit doesn't need to go back...

 

[Railperf]

Minus the 1 that has been returned to Stadler due to being fuelled with inferior quality diesel!

That's a new excuse - the wrong kind of diesel

 

[dk1]

That's a new excuse - the wrong kind of diesel

Oh my goodness. You sound like the general public or media with remarks like that

 

[samuelmorris]

He does, but I see the humour in it, I've not seen that one before either

 

[Mordac]

He does, but I see the humour in it, I've not seen that one before either

Happened to the Class 800s recently. Apparently the fuel at Laira (or maybe it was Penzance, can't remember at the moment) was deemed to not be good enough for the 800's engines due to some contamination. The HSTs didn't notice, though.

 

[HowardGWR]

Happened to the Class 800s recently. Apparently the fuel at Laira (or maybe it was Penzance, can't remember at the moment) was deemed to not be good enough for the 800's engines due to some contamination. The HSTs didn't notice, though.

I used to think stories about poor fuel were exaggerated, but recently, after a few months idle, my petrol Mercedes 260E would not start. The usual electrics were tested but no go. A friend suggested 'old poor quality supermarket fuel' and although sceptical, I filled a large can from a nearby garage and added it. The car started immediately. My friend stated that he knew the supermarkets took the oldest fuel from the tanks at the depots and thus got it cheaper. Anyway, it appears fuel can deteriorate with age. I am surprised that any diesel would have a problem with poor quality fuel, due to the superior method of ignition in a diesel engine.

 

[trebor79]

When are deliveries due to recommence? And is the plan to store units on the MNR still going ahead?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Happened to the Class 800s recently. Apparently the fuel at Laira (or maybe it was Penzance, can't remember at the moment) was deemed to not be good enough for the 800's engines due to some contamination. The HSTs didn't notice, though.

Large, old diesel engines like those would run on straight used chip fat if you put that in. Series Land Rovers (non-turbo) are similar.

Used chip fat is probably incredibly clean compared with the filthy rubbish that goes into large ships.

 

[43096]

Happened to the Class 800s recently. Apparently the fuel at Laira (or maybe it was Penzance, can't remember at the moment) was deemed to not be good enough for the 800's engines due to some contamination. The HSTs didn't notice, though.

Errrrrrr, they did. There have been issues with the fuel at Laira going back some time and there were definitely issues with the HST MTU engines, particularly with blocked filters.

 

[samuelmorris]

I wasn't aware much had really changed in terms of the engines themselves between the HSTs and modern units, e.g. 800s. Bear in mind the MTU engines in the HSTs, which is certainly pertinent for wherever they are being replaced by 800s at present, can only be 15 years old at most. As far as basic issues like fuel compatibility, is there really much of a difference?

In this case I wonder if it may be a case of wanting to avoid any possibility of unnecessary additional maintenance / repair during the testing period.

 

[Mordac]

Errrrrrr, they did. There have been issues with the fuel at Laira going back some time and there were definitely issues with the HST MTU engines, particularly with blocked filters.

Fair enough, that's the impression I'd got, but I'm always happy to be corrected by someone in the know! I guess I inferred that there wasn't an issue because the 800s were banned from refuelling there, and IIRC the HSTs were not.

 

[dk1]

When are deliveries due to recommence? And is the plan to store units on the MNR still going ahead?

Deliveries should start ramping up & the first 12-car airport train is due in the UK within weeks. Yes construction of the new line & sidings on the MNR is progressing well. Crown Point is a building site & the 6 new secure Wensum Sidings are complete yet not operational. Victoria Sidings (Trowse) are being cleared ready but plans to use those at Yarmouth have been abandoned.

 

[43096]

Fair enough, that's the impression I'd got, but I'm always happy to be corrected by someone in the know! I guess I inferred that there wasn't an issue because the 800s were banned from refuelling there, and IIRC the HSTs were not.

True - they didn't have much choice but to fuel the HSTs really!

 

[EssexGonzo]

I used to think stories about poor fuel were exaggerated, but recently, after a few months idle, my petrol Mercedes 260E would not start. The usual electrics were tested but no go. A friend suggested 'old poor quality supermarket fuel' and although sceptical, I filled a large can from a nearby garage and added it. The car started immediately. My friend stated that he knew the supermarkets took the oldest fuel from the tanks at the depots and thus got it cheaper. Anyway, it appears fuel can deteriorate with age. I am surprised that any diesel would have a problem with poor quality fuel, due to the superior method of ignition in a diesel engine.

I rather suspect that the relevant part of the paragraph is "after a few months idle" rather than "supermarkets took the oldest fuel". That the car was standing with deteriorating fuel for some months is almost certainly the issue here rather than supermarket fuel.

Every Spring, when I break out the lawnmower, I drain the petrol tank and get rid of any fuel that hasn't evaporated from the can as after 4 or 5 months it won't be fit for purpose. You may want to try and clean your Merc's injectors if even a small amount of fuel has been sent through the system when attempting to start it.

 

[trebor79]

Deliveries should start ramping up...

Thanks, sounds like the Stadtler units are more or less going as planned so far? Still on track to see some.in passenger service by May?

 

[James James]

Nice photos. I look forward to seeing them down here.

Has anyone found the powered/unpowered bogie layout for these units? With the 755s it's pretty straightforward, traction motors at each end, power unit in the middle, all articulated bogies unpowered, but with the 745 there are far more unarticulated bogies than would need to be powered (especially with enormous 650kW traction motors), but I can't see any obvious indication from those pictures which ones are.

If the original designs are anything to go by, it'll still be the 2 end bogies, and 2 middle bogies. (From what I can remember the original design had articulated bogies throughout, except for the middle joint which had 2 normal bogies)

 

[Rick1984]

but plans to use those at Yarmouth have been abandoned.

why is that? noticed they cut back the vegetation then let it grow back so that makes sense.