Great Western Electrification Progress

[LNW-GW Joint]

But no full implementation to Bristol Parkway at least? At one time in the documentation for Great Western upgrade by Network Rail, it stated 'opportunities to increase line speed to 140mph west of Reading will be reviewed in line with signalling upgrades' or a line saying something almost exact to that.

Yes, but the "Digital Railway" is rethinking its strategy, and has dropped plans for a fast roll-out on the GWML/ECML.
The aim now is to grow from the committed base (Thameslink core and Paddington-Reading), but only if there are significant benefits (capacity mainly).
They also want to prove it all in service first (starting with Thameslink).

 

[RichW1]

Is this not over cautious? I mean ETCS has been fitted to railways before (albeit still a minority sport). Classic lines in Portugal, Italy in the north, Austria with Railjet and Berlin - Hamburg all have some form of technology that is ahead of lights on sticks signalling which allows them to travel to 143mph. Why are we the only ones creating our own ceiling at 125mph? It has been done, it is being done and the arguments about not much time saving is nonsense when one bothers to actually work it out. There is much to be gained.

It has (like the yellow front end) become a case of 'well, that's how it's always been done' culture. There will be many decades without high speed for those not able to take advantage (notably the south west) of high speed.

As any tin can on wheels can do 125mph these days, I would have thought the economic and social desirability of a sub 5hour journey to Cornwall passing through many towns should be enough to justify upgrades, but then with a market led railway, we just don't care about that sort of thing (and I'm a staunch capitalist). There are just some areas where a lead has to be taken for the good of the country, not because the investment ratio means Devon and Cornwall can go to hell, or Norwich can't get 125mph even between Ipswich and Norwich when it's technically easy to do.

I do start to despair. There's always a uniquely British excuse.

 

[edwin_m]

Does this mean the class 80x will need fitting with the obsolete GW ATP system? If so it's yet another cost the taxpayer will end up footing one way or another.

Even with suitable signalling 140mph will eat capacity on sections where slower trains also operate (pretty much everywhere except the mains east of Didcot). And for a Penzance train using the faster Berks and Hants route, the trains won't get anywhere near 140mph on diesel power and I doubt there's any suitable track between Reading and Newbury, so the benefit would be east of Reading only. There would be more scope for acceleration via Bristol but that would just make the slower route a bit closer in time to the faster one .

 

[JN114]

800s are fitted with GW ATP; and I understand were always planned to in the interim period between introduction into service and ETCS coming along. It's a requisite for greater than 110mph operation East of Reading.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Is this not over cautious? I mean ETCS has been fitted to railways before (albeit still a minority sport). Classic lines in Portugal, Italy in the north, Austria with Railjet and Berlin - Hamburg all have some form of technology that is ahead of lights on sticks signalling which allows them to travel to 143mph. Why are we the only ones creating our own ceiling at 125mph? It has been done, it is being done and the arguments about not much time saving is nonsense when one bothers to actually work it out. There is much to be gained.

It's a lot more complicated that that, though.
I don't think it's the technology that is problematic now, it's the cost and impact on operations that matter more.
The cost of fitting all the cabs on a particular route is very high.
The benefits are not yet proven, and it might even reduce capacity in some UK conditions.
140mph running comes well down the list of priorities at the moment.
In the case of the ECML, a huge amount of work is necessary on the route to allow 140mph, separate from installing ETCS.
However it would be a pity if the replacement of GW ATP was deferred.

 

[jimm]

There is one pointless HST stopper that I use on a Friday morning heading to Swindon from Maidenhead.

2N16 comes along, usually a three car Turbo, at 0838. Everyone going to Reading or beyond gets on that train. About 5 minutes after this leaves, the platform is almost empty and 1R02 arrives with a service to Reading, no different to a Turbo in the fact it calls at Twyford, but has 8 coaches. It's normally empty inside, and hardly anyone gets on it because it's so closely timed to 2N16 that it's pointless.

I have never understood the reasoning to operate that service with a HST. I love it, how quiet it is and being able to catch a HST from Maidenhead for Reading, but the extra capacity isn't needed at that time clearly. The way I see it, could be better used elsewhere - though I'm not complaining!

It could be that it has to run and rather than have it as an enjoy train movement they use it as a service.

The other odd thing about this hst turn is the return working 1P95 0915 Reading - Paddington. This is the last train from both Reading and Maidenhead that Off Peak tickets are NOT valid and so runs lightly loaded as passengers use the substantially cheaper trains a few minutes later. In the case of Reading the next London bound hst is the 0505 from Penzance which is usually busy before the 0930 Off Peak spike hits it at Reading.

In the last years of NSE LHCS there was a 1F37 0935 Reading - Paddington that ran specifically to absorb this passenger spike. 1F37 came ECS from Paddington. 1P95 is the modern day equivalent train but fails to meet this objective. If 1P95 ran 15 minutes later, then 1R01 being almost empty would not matter so much (better 1R01 than 5F37). Perhaps electrification and the use of 387s will address this anomaly (desperate attempt to get back on topic...)

I suspect the reason it runs is to get the HST out of a platform at Paddington to help make room for an inbound service and also reflects the fact that most of the HSTs arriving at Reading from the west between 0900 and 0930 don't tend to have that many empty seats to accommodate people from Reading heading into London, plus giving later commuters from Maidenhead (not everyone starts at 9 these days) a fast run into London.

This diagram (starts the day as the 04.30 from Paddington to Didcot, returning at at 06.32) looks a fair bet to go over to 387 operation in January.

The HST is used currently as a queue-buster to shift the heavy load on the inbound service from Didcot, in the absence of enough outer-suburban rolling stock in the GWR fleet. The 387s will change that.

 

[Ploughman]

I see we have drifted back off topic again.
Discussing about HSTs etc rather than actual Electrification work.
Other threads are available for train talk.

 

[jimm]

Platform 12 at Reading station now has the contact wire in place.

Just Platform 10 left to finish, with the catenary wire fitted along it so far.

 

[cjmillsnun]

Is this not over cautious? I mean ETCS has been fitted to railways before (albeit still a minority sport). Classic lines in Portugal, Italy in the north, Austria with Railjet and Berlin - Hamburg all have some form of technology that is ahead of lights on sticks signalling which allows them to travel to 143mph. Why are we the only ones creating our own ceiling at 125mph? It has been done, it is being done and the arguments about not much time saving is nonsense when one bothers to actually work it out. There is much to be gained.

It has (like the yellow front end) become a case of 'well, that's how it's always been done' culture. There will be many decades without high speed for those not able to take advantage (notably the south west) of high speed.

As any tin can on wheels can do 125mph these days, I would have thought the economic and social desirability of a sub 5hour journey to Cornwall passing through many towns should be enough to justify upgrades, but then with a market led railway, we just don't care about that sort of thing (and I'm a staunch capitalist). There are just some areas where a lead has to be taken for the good of the country, not because the investment ratio means Devon and Cornwall can go to hell, or Norwich can't get 125mph even between Ipswich and Norwich when it's technically easy to do.

I do start to despair. There's always a uniquely British excuse.

Off topic I know, but why is it technically easy to increase to 125 between Norwich and Ipswich? From what I understand it would require major civil engineering works to get the trackbed sufficiently stable.

 

[3973EXL]

Had a look today for any progress, for my own benefit.

For anybody else who may be interested:

Maidenhead trackwork and wires look complete.

Plat 5 loop fully wired, including crossover to Plat 4.
Turnback finished.
Stabling sidings track and wires look good, still other work going on and sleeper blocking access.

Wires finish at MP25 and there is then a gap on all lines to approximately MP25 3/4.

UR/DR then wired to approximately MP28 3/4.
UM/DM wired until just before MP30. However, approximately 1 mile of the UM is catenary wire only, MP28 3/4 to MP29 1/4.

Twyford, portal still missing east of the station.
Plat 2,3 & 4 canopy work.
Road bridge parapet work.
New signal off Reading end of the DR platform. Bagged over.
There appears to be two mast bases covered over on plat 4. I don't know if they will be used, I'm guessing they are for the wires coming off the Henley branch connection (if ever done).

Wires start again after MP31 1/2 (west of Loddon viaduct).
Twyford West crossovers part wired, Relief to Relief.
DM/UM wired to approximately MP34 3/4 Kennet loop area. Section of DM which had the contact wire removed, has now been replaced.
DR/UR wired the same except, UR section of catenary wire only coming out of the west end of Sonning Cutting.
DR couple of sections with no wires from east of Warren Road bridge to where the old Sonning sidings were.

 

[jyte]

Had a look today for any progress, for my own benefit.

For anybody else who may be interested:

Maidenhead trackwork and wires look complete.

Plat 5 loop fully wired, including crossover to Plat 4.
Turnback finished.
Stabling sidings track and wires look good, still other work going on and sleeper blocking access.

Wires finish at MP25 and there is then a gap on all lines to approximately MP25 3/4.

UR/DR then wired to approximately MP28 3/4.
UM/DM wired until just before MP30. However, approximately 1 mile of the UM is catenary wire only, MP28 3/4 to MP29 1/4.

Twyford, portal still missing east of the station.
Plat 2,3 & 4 canopy work.
Road bridge parapet work.
New signal off Reading end of the DR platform. Bagged over.
There appears to be two mast bases covered over on plat 4. I don't know if they will be used, I'm guessing they are for the wires coming off the Henley branch connection (if ever done).

Wires start again after MP31 1/2 (west of Loddon viaduct).
Twyford West crossovers part wired, Relief to Relief.
DM/UM wired to approximately MP34 3/4 Kennet loop area. Section of DM which had the contact wire removed, has now been replaced.
DR/UR wired the same except, UR section of catenary wire only coming out of the west end of Sonning Cutting.
DR couple of sections with no wires from east of Warren Road bridge to where the old Sonning sidings were.

Thanks.

That MP25 gap has been around for a while now - but it's nice to see the wiring is a bit more filled in west of Maidenhead - plus one of the missing portals has been put in too by the sounds of things.

 

[92002]

Thanks.

That MP25 gap has been around for a while now - but it's nice to see the wiring is a bit more filled in west of Maidenhead - plus one of the missing portals has been put in too by the sounds of things.

Quite a number of masts either side of Chippenham now. Some with cantilevers. Goes most of the way to West of Swindon station, with a piece in the middle where signal ducting is being replaced.

Also a good number of bases from Westerleigh Junction towards Bristol parkway. Beyond Parkway towards Cardiff looks more or less complete. Nothing towards Temple Meads yet with extra tracks being added first.

 

[QueensCurve]

Quite a number of masts either side of Chippenham now. Some with cantilevers. Goes most of the way to West of Swindon station, with a piece in the middle where signal ducting is being replaced.

Also a good number of bases from Westerleigh Junction towards Bristol parkway. Beyond Parkway towards Cardiff looks more or less complete. Nothing towards Temple Meads yet with extra tracks being added first.

Any photos of these?

 

[swt_passenger]

That MP25 gap has been around for a while now...

I would seriously expect that is exactly as intended, a part of the safety plan.

A definite boundary between electrically live and dead worksites, that they can install as a specific task later on.

 

[jimm]

Any photos of these?

Some from east of Chippenham have been posted on pages 128 and 129 of the RMweb thread

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/78877-gwml-electification/page-128

 

[Parallel]

Regarding the recent engineering works at Bath Spa, were the platform lengths extended? I know they were made wider to allow for future electrification, but it looks like platform 2 has actually been made shorter, with the west bound part of the platform now fenced off?

 

[HowardGWR]

Nothing towards Temple Meads yet with extra tracks being added first.

I didn't think there was supposed to be, until CP6?

 

[59CosG95]

I didn't think there was supposed to be, until CP6?

Yep, pushed back after the Hendy Review IIRC; trackwork on the approach to Temple Meads still needs re-organising, and it'd be pretty wasteful to install all the OLE only to have it ripped out again to match the new track geometry!

 

[jyte]

Re: the missing mast at Twyford...

It's been conspicuously absent for a while now.

Is it under/next to a bridge/on some crappy ground/on bad piles?

It just seems odd that it's missing - mind you I know virtually no specifics of this project!

Also for some reason I remembered seeing something about 387s on the GWML testing from the 9th May, am I going nuts? Have these tests taken place/been postponed or should I take this to the 387 thread?

Edit:387 question answered elsewhere.

 

[swt_passenger]

Regarding the recent engineering works at Bath Spa, were the platform lengths extended? I know they were made wider to allow for future electrification, but it looks like platform 2 has actually been made shorter, with the west bound part of the platform now fenced off?

It will probably just be a stage in the overall works so far. You'd only need to produce a platform long enough for existing trains (i.e. full length HSTs) in the first phase blockade, and then the extension from that to full length can mostly happen in normal overnight and weekend possessions, like many other platform extension projects that go on elsewhere alongside the operational railway.

 

[reddragon]

Twyford, portal still missing east of the station.
Plat 2,3 & 4 canopy work.
Road bridge parapet work.
New signal off Reading end of the DR platform. Bagged over.
There appears to be two mast bases covered over on plat 4. I don't know if they will be used, I'm guessing they are for the wires coming off the Henley branch connection (if ever done).

A sewer was hit and the mast base needed a redesign, hence 2 bases / incomplete work.

 

[AnthonyRail]

are they adding more lines into temple meads, seems a lot of trackbed clearance around filton area. or is for masts??

 

[snowball]

are they adding more lines into temple meads, seems a lot of trackbed clearance around filton area. or is for masts??

The Filton line is being converted back to four tracks.

 

[Hellzapoppin]

It will probably just be a stage in the overall works so far. You'd only need to produce a platform long enough for existing trains (i.e. full length HSTs) in the first phase blockade, and then the extension from that to full length can mostly happen in normal overnight and weekend possessions, like many other platform extension projects that go on elsewhere alongside the operational railway.

Not quote the case as the station sits between a viaduct and a bridge so its quite involved extending the platforms. The down platform will be extended but the up remains as is, I think the west end of 2 is classed as non operational so can be closed off and works carried out non possession.

 

[alxndr]

There was plenty of piling work going on last night in Swindon, and I believe the rest of the week too. Presumably people were getting quite concerned by it as Wiltshire Police ended up posting on Facebook that the noises were railway related and not a matter for concern! Sounded as though they were working from at least Highworth Junction through to the other side of the station.

A concrete block was also installed just off the London end of platform, near to the existing gantry. Didn't look substantial enough for either OLE foundations or a new signal gantry, so wondering if they going to be installing a stick signal. That would then pose the question of how they're going to handle the up main running through the middle, perhaps a cantilever from platform 3? Or I could be barking up entirely the wrong tree.

 

[3973EXL]

Wires finish at MP25 and there is then a gap on all lines to approximately MP25 3/4.

UR/DR then wired to approximately MP28 3/4.
UM/DM wired until just before MP30. However, approximately 1 mile of the UM is catenary wire only, MP28 3/4 to MP29 1/4.

Twyford, portal still missing east of the station.
Plat 2,3 & 4 canopy work.
Road bridge parapet work.
New signal off Reading end of the DR platform. Bagged over.


Wires start again after MP31 1/2 (west of Loddon viaduct).
Twyford West crossovers part wired, Relief to Relief.
DM/UM wired to approximately MP34 3/4 Kennet loop area. Section of DM which had the contact wire removed, has now been replaced.
DR/UR wired the same except, UR section of catenary wire only coming out of the west end of Sonning Cutting.
DR couple of sections with no wires from east of Warren Road bridge to where the old Sonning sidings were.

No change to the wires at Ruscombe.
Some SPS still to go up in the crossover area. Nearly there.
Southbury Lane bridge Ruscombe, planning application posted to raise the parapets.
Four track portal at Twyford East now up.
Twyford overbridge, parapet work ongoing.
Station canopy work, cutting back 2 3 & 4.

UR now fully wired MP31 1/2 to MP34 3/4.
DR section with no wires now has a catenary wire up, MP33 to MP34 1/4 approximately.

 

[jyte]

A concrete block was also installed just off the London end of platform, near to the existing gantry. Didn't look substantial enough for either OLE foundations or a new signal gantry, so wondering if they going to be installing a stick signal. That would then pose the question of how they're going to handle the up main running through the middle, perhaps a cantilever from platform 3? Or I could be barking up entirely the wrong tree.

Any chance someone can deliver a picture? Sort of struggling here:/

 

[alxndr]

Any chance someone can deliver a picture? Sort of struggling here:/

Don't have a photograph, but in the dark it looked as though it was simply a concrete block, perhaps 2ft square, with bolts protruding from the top. I'm assuming it was some sort of concrete base some signals are bolted onto, like this. I could be completely wrong though as I didn't get to see exactly where they put it, or close up, and it was dark.

You might not be able to get a vantage point to see it from the platform, I suspect it could be hidden below the edge.

 

[Hellzapoppin]

I actually saw this base earlier today, I was on a train heading east, it seems too small for a signal and the area has been resignalled recently. I'll ask some questions and see what I can find out.

 

[Tio Terry]

There was plenty of piling work going on last night in Swindon, and I believe the rest of the week too. Presumably people were getting quite concerned by it as Wiltshire Police ended up posting on Facebook that the noises were railway related and not a matter for concern! Sounded as though they were working from at least Highworth Junction through to the other side of the station.

A concrete block was also installed just off the London end of platform, near to the existing gantry. Didn't look substantial enough for either OLE foundations or a new signal gantry, so wondering if they going to be installing a stick signal. That would then pose the question of how they're going to handle the up main running through the middle, perhaps a cantilever from platform 3? Or I could be barking up entirely the wrong tree.

Sounds like an SPT base but I would have thought they would have put that at the top of the ramp.