Great Northern train order

[A0]

313001 ought to be a candidate for the NRM - being the first of it's kind ?

Really the NRM ought to have claimed one of the prototype PEPs - which given they weren't scrapped until 1990 it's inexcusable that they didn't.

Definitely one of the PEP units should be preserved - if only because it was the point at which BR's fundamental approach to EMU design changed, moving away from a simple 'motorised' Mk1 carriage with slam doors and instead onto a design that allowed for carrying a large number of people with minimum dwell time at stations.

 

[fgwrich]

Currently running as 313201 under Southern (Coastway routes) and is not due to be replaced under the current franchise; it has a few more years of running left

It would have also been extensively refurbished as well then so would need some original 313 interior saved from another unit for it - probably from a TFL 315.

 

[ungreat]

These units wouldn't be allowed to go to Peterborough because of shoe gear clearance,same as the 313s

 

[petersi]

These units wouldn't be allowed to go to Peterborough because of shoe gear clearance,same as the 313s

I believe this not true as the 700's used for thameslink will not have retractable pick up shoes

The routes they serve just will not take them north of Hitchin

Plus they are designed as inner suburban stock so no toilets
Which makes then not good for longer journeys

 

[A-driver]

These units wouldn't be allowed to go to Peterborough because of shoe gear clearance,same as the 313s

700s won't have retractable shoes either which is why the will be late appearing on the GN as network rail need to rebuild the Ouse bridges at Huntingdon and nene bridges at Peterborough to give clearance to the units.

Of Coursencome Monday morning after a weekend blockade they will have no shoes at farringdon as the p-way will have built the ballast too high'

 

[jon0844]

With the internal design, any 'accidents' are easily washed clean!

 

[SpacePhoenix]

For the Desiro Cities that don't have loos installed, will all the internal plumbing and wiring be in place underneath the floor to allow loos to be installed at at later date if needed?

 

[Fincra5]

Wouldn't shock me if we get more "new" 313's for coastway services!

 

[physics34]

there are no tables!!!!!!! AAAARRRGGGGHHHH!

*ONLY JOKING*

 

[D365]

700s won't have retractable shoes either which is why the will be late appearing on the GN as network rail need to rebuild the Ouse bridges at Huntingdon and nene bridges at Peterborough to give clearance to the units.

Any idea when these works will be taking place? Haven't seen much activity at either location so far.

 

[jopsuk]

Given the timescales and the major GN Thameslink changes these trains are highly unlikely to operate north of Stevenage or across the Digswell Viaduct. Whilst it's still not officially on the cards, it really wouldn't surprise very many if at a future franchise renewal the Moorgate metro operation was spun off into the orange empire, though this would need political support at Herts County Council.

 

[jon0844]

Given HCC doesn't want to spend any money and get a huge surplus, I can't see that being a problem. Given the nature of the line, it makes perfect sense to spin this off to London Overground.

I'm convinced it will happen sooner or later.

TfL may wish to wait until the new stock comes into serve. Oyster will already be operational by then so it will just need a new livery. Job done.

 

[NickBucks]

Thank you to all those contributors with a greater knowledge of train loos than mine. I think I had better purchase one of those portable appliances you see in the junk mail in case of need. In the meantime Merry Christmas to all.

 

[Mikey C]

It would have also been extensively refurbished as well then so would need some original 313 interior saved from another unit for it - probably from a TFL 315.

Yes, the 315s seem much more 'original' inside

 

[WAB]

Does anyone know what's happening with the seating layout?

 

[Domh245]

Thank you to all those contributors with a greater knowledge of train loos than mine. I think I had better purchase one of those portable appliances you see in the junk mail in case of need. In the meantime Merry Christmas to all.

How do you cope with the current 313s?

 

[jon0844]

People mostly cope fine, or get off early if caught short. I believe the story was a bit different when 313s formed more late night services and, well, let's just say it's lucky they have vinyl flooring...

 

[LLivery]

Does anyone know what's happening with the seating layout?

The link says none of that Overground style longitudinal layout (thankfully). So I'd assume 2+2.

 

[swt_passenger]

The link says none of that Overground style longitudinal layout (thankfully). So I'd assume 2+2.

I wouldn't really interpret it that way, I think they probably mean they will not have 100% longitudinal seating as per 378s, but I expect there must be at least some areas of longitudinal seats, firstly in the multipurpose areas, and possibly near the through gangways as well.

Wouldn't large size through gangway openings be a bit of a waste of time if they had 2+2 seat backs in the immediate vicinity?

 

[jon0844]

I think you're right that there will be some longitudinal seating near gangways and in the accessible area(s).

Large open spaces should be a must on modern stock. More standing room in the peaks, more room for buggies and bags at other times. And of course more room for wheelchairs at all times.

 

[Class 170101]

And of course more room for wheelchairs at all times.

That assumes you can get to the trains in the first place to board them.

 

[jopsuk]

Yes, but might as well make the trains wheelchair friendly so that when the stations are finally brought to compliance they're good to go.

From Moorgate, what is the first station, Northbound, that has step-free street to platform?

 

[petersi]

Potters bar ?

 

[D365]

For the life of me I can't remember where I saw it, but there is a GTR route map that has been designed with step-free access information for every station.

 

[A-driver]

Yes, but might as well make the trains wheelchair friendly so that when the stations are finally brought to compliance they're good to go.

From Moorgate, what is the first station, Northbound, that has step-free street to platform?

Potters bar on the mainline, or Hertford (palmers green on the down may have a gate from the platform to the car park but it may be a solid fence all along).

 

[Skimble19]

For the life of me I can't remember where I saw it, but there is a GTR route map that has been designed with step-free access information for every station.

It's on all of the new rote map posters across GN stations now. Also includes a rough guide to station staffing hours.

 

[Clip]

Probably

But on the issue of lack of toilets seeing as these are replacing 313s (that don't have them) do they (the 313s) ever end up going as far as Peterborough?

I doubt it and these probably never will but I was just being as silly as someone saying it was against the law or something earlier in the thread

 

[JaJaWa]

For the life of me I can't remember where I saw it, but there is a GTR route map that has been designed with step-free access information for every station.

It's the standard route map http://www.thameslinkrailway.com/your-journey/planning/map/

Potters Bar is correct.

 

[petersi]

Look as though they have finance in place
Using a new entrant rock rail. Usual stuff about value etc in link below

http://www.railwaygazette.com/news/...signs-first-rolling-stock-financing-deal.html

 

[jopsuk]

Note that this is 18 more carriages than the current fleet, and I'd guess they will hope for higher availability as well.

If they're 100mph capable like the TL spec units, will they be able to go any faster than the 313s on the slow lines/the loop, and will this actually help at all?