Great Northern and Thameslink May 18 service changes

[TheDavibob]

Oh. Does that include weekend services?

Not as yet, though a Saturday run might be possible, I'd've thought.

They're currently running as an additional service (north of London) rather than, as of May, a replacement of the Cambridge-Kings Cross semi-fast, so I don't think there's much chance of many other than the 1424 (on weekdays) running until May, potentially a couple more lunchtime runs (though this is me wildly hypothesising).

 

[Hadders]

Deleted

 

[arb]

I think it is another week another missed deadline from GTR. (Remember GTR apologists the set the date last week not us).
...
So still work in progress. GTR are very quiet about missing thier own deadline.

It's starting to remind me of the debacle of the replacement timetable for the recent Ely Blockade works not being available until only a couple of weeks in advance...

 

[Richardr]

Thameslink did tweet earlier today:

"Some services in our May 2018 timetable are not yet showing on journey planners. We are working to upload these as quickly as possible."

 

[TheDavibob]

I note the Cambridge London slows (GN) and semi fasts (TL) now depart within a few minutes of each other. Previously the GN departures were nicely spread out with one in each quarter of an hour, going fast, semi fast, fast, slow. Now they go fast (long gap), fast, semi fast and then almost immediately, slow.

Actually, I've looked at this again: there are now two slows every hour, departing Cambridge at xx:27 and xx:57, with the latter commencing from Cambridge North, and following the Brighton semifast at xx:54. This seems to be utterly consistent throughout the day. Much better?

 

[GoatSarah]

Much better?

Considerably! Really pleasing to see that.

 

[ijmad]

Oh. Does that include weekend services?

Nothing on the weekends. Don't get too excited about the weekdays either, it's literally one test train per day.

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/sea...18/03/07/0000-2359?stp=WVS&show=all&order=wtt

 

[sefton]

Is there anywhere that shows the length of the trains, particularly the Peterborough services that will still be going to and from King's Cross?

 

[Class 466]

Nothing on the weekends. Don't get too excited about the weekdays either, it's literally one test train per day.

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/sea...18/03/07/0000-2359?stp=WVS&show=all&order=wtt

Two in each direction from next Monday!

 

[Failed Unit]

The whole situation with the spring timetable is getting silly now

Still no local services uploaded on Sunday
Lots of weekday services still missing. (Such as nothing leaving WGC between 0654 and 0722)
Nothing northbound from Moorgate to WGC

Come on GTR you said 2 weeks ago not us. If you set a deadline meet it (or don’t set it)

 

[ijmad]

Wondering if there are still Thameslink services missing (hoping so anyway). In particular, three missing Thameslink Orpington services on weekdays at 19:26, 19:56 and 20:26. Can't figure out if these are just missing or actual gaps in the timetable, but it would mean no Orpington services between 18:56 and 20:56, which seems wrong, given it's a clock face timetable for the entire rest of the day. This would also mean only 2tph through Catford Loop stations during these hours. The ID numbers on RTT skip a few in the pattern which makes me hopeful they've just been overlooked and will be fixed later.

Speaking of Catford Loop, still wondering if there might be extra peak flow services up the sleeves of Thameslink or Southeastern, but becoming increasingly concerned there won't be. I know I've mentioned it before but in terms of trains during the high peak we'd be down from 7 services to 5 services at a series of stations that is already massively overcrowded.

On the plus side, I am pleased to see considerably strengthened peak direction services from Beckenham Junction to Blackfriars and vice versa. These might actually be useful now.

 

[sefton]

Is there anywhere that shows the length of the trains, particularly the Peterborough services that will still be going to and from King's Cross?

As I was early at the station today I thought I would ask if any information was available.

According to the member of staff in the ticket office (who was clearly not enjoying their job) there will be no fixed pattern for the number of carriages on each service, it will depend on what stock can be found in the yard.

Hmm...

 

[jon0844]

As I was early at the station today I thought I would ask if any information was available.

According to the member of staff in the ticket office (who was clearly not enjoying their job) there will be no fixed pattern for the number of carriages on each service, it will depend on what stock can be found in the yard.

Hmm...

Very hmm.. The workings clearly show how many coaches each train will be and it should be the same every day. Of course the exact unit may vary, but it isn't a case of a driver going into the sidings and choosing a train from what's there.

Also, I think there are 3 8-car 700s in operation this Saturday for those who want to see them and haven't had a chance in the week.

 

[arb]

There appears to be an extra Great Northern Cambridge to Ely shuttle in the evening peak at 17:44. Very useful given how busy the current 17:40 (retimed to 17:39 from May) is when it departs Cambridge.

Does anybody know if this is just the rear four coaches of the 17:40, which currently detach and go back to London, and are now going to detach and continue to Ely instead? Or if it's a completely different train? If it is the 17:40 splitting then it will presumably help spread the load all the way from King's Cross, not just from Cambridge.

 

[gazr]

Two small changes I have noticed: 1) The Huntingdon bay platform has its service withdrawn (requires a shunt to gain access) and 2) Baldock sees some peak trains terminate using the crossover.

 

[sefton]

Very hmm.. The workings clearly show how many coaches each train will be and it should be the same every day. Of course the exact unit may vary, but it isn't a case of a driver going into the sidings and choosing a train from what's there.

Of course. I know that, you know that, everyone knows that.

It just amused me that someone hated their job so much that even if they didn't have the information they felt the need to make up a BS story that makes their employer look like incompetent idiots.

 

[Failed Unit]

Of course. I know that, you know that, everyone knows that.

It just amused me that someone hated their job so much that even if they didn't have the information they felt the need to make up a BS story that makes their employer look like incompetent idiots.

GTR. Incompetent? Never seen that in the same sentence before

 

[bspahh]

There appears to be an extra Great Northern Cambridge to Ely shuttle in the evening peak at 17:44. Very useful given how busy the current 17:40 (retimed to 17:39 from May) is when it departs Cambridge.

Does anybody know if this is just the rear four coaches of the 17:40, which currently detach and go back to London, and are now going to detach and continue to Ely instead? Or if it's a completely different train? If it is the 17:40 splitting then it will presumably help spread the load all the way from King's Cross, not just from Cambridge.

Both the 17:39 and the 17:44 leave Cambridge from Platform 1, so I think its one train splitting.

These are the train times betweem Ely, Waterbeach (WBC), Cambridge North (CMB) and Cambridge (CBG) for Tuesday May 22nd from http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/

Code  Ely d    WBC a  CMB a  CBG a
1T09  2 07:12  07:21         7 07:30
2T09  3 07:15         07:28  7 07:34
2H13  3 07:30         07:41  4 07:47
1K59  2 07:33         07:45  5 07:53
2T11  3 07:43  07:52         7 08:01
1T11  2 07:47         07:59  7 08:04
1L26  2 07:52                4 08:08
2H15  3 08:00  08:09  08:13  7 08:19
1T13  2 08:14  08:23  08:28  8 08:34
1K61  2 08:33         08:44  5 08:51
1T15  2 08:45  08:54  08:59  7 09:04
1L28  2 08:54                7 09:13
1T17  2 09:17  09:26  09:30  7 09:36
1K65  2 09:38         09:50  5 09:59
1T19  2 09:48  09:57  10:02  7 10:06
1L30  2 09:52                8 10:09
1T21  3 10:17  10:26  10:30  8 10:36

Code  CBG d    CMB d  WBC d  Ely a
1N61  1 16:01                1 16:15
1T40  1 16:04  16:08         3 16:23
1K78  5 16:09  16:13         1 16:26
2T92  6 16:20         16:26  1 16:36
1T42  1 16:35  16:39  16:44  1 16:54
1N63  4 17:01                1 17:15
1K80  5 17:09  17:13         1 17:26
2H42  4 17:21  17:26  17:30  1 17:39
1T46  1 17:39  17:44  17:49  1 17:58
2T96  1 17:44  17:47  17:52  3 18:03
1N65  1 18:01                1 18:15
1T48  1 18:07  18:11         3 18:24
1K82  6 18:11  18:15         1 18:27
1H82  1 18:19         18:25  1 18:34
2H20  5 18:22  18:26  18:30  1 18:40
1T50  1 18:41  18:45  18:50  1 19:02
1N67  7 19:00                1 19:15
1T52  7 19:09  19:14  19:18  1 19:27
1H86  1 19:19         19:25  1 19:34
1K84  5 19:22  19:26         1 19:38

In the morning, at the moment the first off peak train from Ely to Cambridge North is on the 8.58 into Cambridge and the 9.28 back to Cambridge North for 9.34. In the new timetable, the first off peak train will be the 9.17 that gets in an 9.30.

In the evening, at the moment there are departures from Cambridge North to Ely at 17:14, 17:26, 18:10, 18:15, 18:26 and 19:26. There are some connections via Cambridge in the big gaps, but they use the Cross Country train which is often packed.

 

[arb]

There appears to be an extra Great Northern Cambridge to Ely shuttle in the evening peak at 17:44. Very useful given how busy the current 17:40 (retimed to 17:39 from May) is when it departs Cambridge

These are the train times betweem Ely, Waterbeach (WBC), Cambridge North (CMB) and Cambridge (CBG) for Tuesday May 22nd from http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/

And your table shows that the 17:05 has been removed completely. So you could argue that the 17:44 isn't providing extra capacity, just a shuffling of capacity from slightly earlier to slighly later. I don't know how busy the 17:05 and other departures around 17:00 typically are - they're a bit early for me on a normal day.

 

[arb]

Oh, there are still probably a handful of trains to be uploaded. At lest the 05:25 and 10:25 ELY-CBG are missing in the morning, and the 17:05, 19:25, 20:51 and 21:28 CBG-ELY are missing in the evening.

 

[jon0844]

Of course. I know that, you know that, everyone knows that.

It just amused me that someone hated their job so much that even if they didn't have the information they felt the need to make up a BS story that makes their employer look like incompetent idiots.

Most likely agency (I hope!) who seem to be totally uninterested.

 

[Skimble19]

Most likely agency (I hope!) who seem to be totally uninterested.

Sad but true. Was talking to a couple of new agency guys the other day, they get £8 an hour for the first 3 months, zero hour contracts with no guarantee of any hours, the worst shifts at quite often the worst stations (nights at Watton At Stone anybody?!) although some are let loose at bigger/better stations but usually on the worst shifts again.

Not a massive surprise a lot of them are not jumping with enthusiasm unless they actually want to transfer to GTR at some point, as a select few of the good ones have done! Sadly they're also usually incredibly uninformed, so if passengers ask questions it's unlikely they'll know an accurate answer.

Returning to topic, as posted above, this Saturday will indeed be the first Saturday with 700s in service on Great Northern.

 

[sefton]

Most likely agency (I hope!) who seem to be totally uninterested.

Nope, permanent member of staff who has been there years and always looks like they are chewing a wasp.

Now the agency member of staff on the barrier is a ray of sunshine.

And back to the topic, non-commuters seem to be getting very confused with the new train services.

I had to reassure an elderly couple yesterday they didn't need to wait 40 minutes for the next KGX train as they could catch the service to Horsham but to make sure they got off at STP. "But we want to go to Kings Cross" was the reply.

 

[APUK002]

Sad but true. Was talking to a couple of new agency guys the other day, they get £8 an hour for the first 3 months, zero hour contracts with no guarantee of any hours, the worst shifts at quite often the worst stations (nights at Watton At Stone anybody?!) although some are let loose at bigger/better stations but usually on the worst shifts again.

Not a massive surprise a lot of them are not jumping with enthusiasm unless they actually want to transfer to GTR at some point, as a select few of the good ones have done! Sadly they're also usually incredibly uninformed, so if passengers ask questions it's unlikely they'll know an accurate answer.

Returning to topic, as posted above, this Saturday will indeed be the first Saturday with 700s in service on Great Northern.

What diagrams?

 

[Ianno87]

There appears to be an extra Great Northern Cambridge to Ely shuttle in the evening peak at 17:44. Very useful given how busy the current 17:40 (retimed to 17:39 from May) is when it departs Cambridge.

Does anybody know if this is just the rear four coaches of the 17:40, which currently detach and go back to London, and are now going to detach and continue to Ely instead? Or if it's a completely different train? If it is the 17:40 splitting then it will presumably help spread the load all the way from King's Cross, not just from Cambridge.

The current service the rear portion forms is a stopper back to London. From May, all stoppers will become 'Thameslink' Class 700 services (albeit not going through the core). So that portion now has nothing to do. So it might as well form a rear portion to Ely instead.

Anything to give extra capacity on the 1644 is a good thing - it's one insanely busy train throughout!

 

[OwenB]

Anyone have any idea when the equivalent of the 17.58 KGX-WGC (HAT for me) will be added. There's also a 06.39 (I think) HAT-KGX that's not been added.

Surely these semi-slow (sorry, not sure on the terminology) haven't been axed, as one train every 30 minutes KGX-HAT (xx:51, xx:21) seems light. Thank you

 

[AS43]

Anything to give extra capacity on the 1644 is a good thing - it's one insanely busy train throughout!

Looks as though the 1544 also gains some relief, as the current 1619 Cambridge - Downham Market train is extended through to Lynn. Something needed doing, as in the 15 minutes between the two trains departing, an awful lot of college kids appear and the 1544 is invariably full leaving Cambridge. Quite whether it will help, I'm not sure, but it's better than nothing!

 

[Failed Unit]

People will asking about what happened to having all timetables publish on the 25th Feb. as GTR published themselves. GTR now can’t provide a date when they will have everything uploaded. Why they said the 25th Feb just sums up how incompetent they are. Hopefully this is hitting them hard with a financial penalty. Consider DfT have them on a management contract they seem to have no control over them.

 

[Skimble19]

People will asking about what happened to having all timetables publish on the 25th Feb. as GTR published themselves. GTR now can’t provide a date when they will have everything uploaded. Why they said the 25th Feb just sums up how incompetent they are. Hopefully this is hitting them hard with a financial penalty. Consider DfT have them on a management contract they seem to have no control over them.

Probably because (from what I've been told, from a good source but don't want to guarantee it!) the delay is apparently down to Network Rail and not GTR?

 

[Failed Unit]

Probably because (from what I've been told, from a good source but don't want to guarantee it!) the delay is apparently down to Network Rail and not GTR?

Ok. Will wind my neck in. Just with GTRs track record saying stuff, then getting proved it isn’t true. It is difficult to believe anything they say.