Great coupling

[455driver]

I once had a plank of a driver who I can only assume was only used to coupling empty stock. I was the dispatcher and he refused to couple two trains unless I detrained them first. I decided far easier than detraining two intercity services would be to ring control and drop him in it as he was also rather rude. Funnily enough after a short phone conversation occurred he got on with it.

Speaking as I driver I think that is disgusting!




There is no need to detrain and if the plank doesnt know the procedures of the complany he works for then he shouldnt be driving. As for being rude, you should have told him to eff off and do his job properly! Some drivers do have a king sized chip on their shoulder!

 

[185]

Classed as a collision, very naughty.

Source of much debate at Leeds with the 1603 Liverpool empties on the platform, and the incoming 1607 set from Scarborough, some days going straight on, other days following rule book procedure. done right there's no problem. Done wrong and... well

A true collision was a driver setting off at Hull in a 158 with a faulty direction switch, took power, sailed backwards and coupled at 7-8mph with a unit on the blocks behind him. That got covered up

 

[edwin_m]

There is no need to detrain and if the plank doesnt know the procedures of the complany he works for then he shouldnt be driving. As for being rude, you should have told him to eff off and do his job properly! Some drivers do have a king sized chip on their shoulder!

If there was a plank of a driver with a chip on his shoulder then would that have been recorded in the log? Or is it just an old saw?

 

[najaB]

If there was a plank of a driver with a chip on his shoulder then would that have been recorded in the log? Or is it just an old saw?

Get your coat, sir.

 

[BestWestern]

I'm assuming you've had a bad day at the office today, my world was the world of driving 170s and 222s from St Pancras for 10 years so I'm not some platform dreamer who thinks he knows better than the professionals, when I coupled up units I was in charge and I did what I wanted, not what the platform staff wanted, not what the train manager wanted and certainly not what the passengers wanted, you're more than entitled to do it how you want to of course

Presumably what you actually did was to follow the procedure on how sets should be coupled, which I imagine would have been rather clearly laid down by the TOC, and of course the relevant elements of the Rulebook - as opposed to doing 'what you wanted'. Or were you one of that increasingly unfashionable breed of driver with a God complex?!

 

[ExRes]

Presumably what you actually did was to follow the procedure on how sets should be coupled, which I imagine would have been rather clearly laid down by the TOC, and of course the relevant elements of the Rulebook - as opposed to doing 'what you wanted'. Or were you one of that increasingly unfashionable breed of driver with a God complex?!

You can be as pedantic as you want if it makes your day happier, if you can't see the point of my post then I've certainly no intention of spelling it out to you letter by letter

 

[BestWestern]

You can be as pedantic as you want if it makes your day happier, if you can't see the point of my post then I've certainly no intention of spelling it out to you letter by letter

We quite like teamwork at our place, perhaps it hasn't filtered through to all the London termini just yet

 

[SPADTrap]

I once had a plank of a driver who I can only assume was only used to coupling empty stock. I was the dispatcher and he refused to couple two trains unless I detrained them first. I decided far easier than detraining two intercity services would be to ring control and drop him in it as he was also rather rude. Funnily enough after a short phone conversation occurred he got on with it.

You'd have had a shock with our control that's for sure!

 

[ExRes]

We quite like teamwork at our place, perhaps it hasn't filtered through to all the London termini just yet

Ok then, you're the driver and you're trying to carry out a safe movement, you then get a train manager or a member of platform staff who decides to take over and do his/her own thing, which happens regardless of how perfect you think your teamwork is, what do you do then, take control yourself or let any tom dick or harry stick their oar in possibly resulting in an injury to a passenger ?, I always preferred to keep my job and do what I was paid for, to keep the passengers and my fellow staff in one piece

 

[muz379]

If the driver doesnt follow the correct procedure and the units split out of course later down the line , you can bet all of the movements will be on the OTDR and if he has not done it as is required he will have a chat with no tea or biscuits .

This is the risk you take when you dont do it right .

I tell the driver when I'm going to open the doors and they work it out based on that. Sometimes I let the passengers out first and sometimes I don't, it depends how tight the turnaround is. Letting them out first is my normal preference as there's loads of time to do the split/join. On the couple of occasions where it's about 2 or 3 minutes I keep them on until it's done. It's all about teamwork but the important point is that the driver operates the train under the direction of the guard - station duties and how they're complete are up to the guard.

Exactly this , The Driver and Guard should speak prior to coupling to make sure both know in what order it is going to be done and so that each can make sure they comply with their responsibilities correctly . My responsibility as the guard is to make sure the doors are closed on both units and the DKS is off on both units .And to make an announcement warning passengers of the coupling .The drivers responsibility is to ensure that the units are joined together properly .

If Ive not been told otherwise then when the train stops in the platform at a station that I am booked to stop at the doors will get opened . If the driver planned to couple them before I had done this then it is tough .

If he had told me prior to arrival that when we arrive at X I am going to couple to the empty unit there then I will know not to switch my DKS on or open the doors and will make an announcement warning passengers we are going to couple up to another unit . Even if we stop and he gives me 2-2 on the buzzer telling me not to open the doors I can speak to him on the C2C and find out what he is doing which is not a problem . But after I have released the doors it is too late to do anything about it then , he will have to wait for the passengers to alight and for it to be safe for him to resume his coupling .

Again if I arrive at the platform and there are two units that need coupling unless the driver tells me when he is ready to start coupling them up he is going to have to wait whilst I close my doors and make the announcement,dks off etc or he is going to have to split them and couple them again if it is not done properly . In this situation I prefer to be on the platform because I can keep people trying to board the train back away from it in case something goes wrong and the coupling fails the pull away test .
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Ok then, you're the driver and you're trying to carry out a safe movement, you then get a train manager or a member of platform staff who decides to take over and do his/her own thing, which happens regardless of how perfect you think your teamwork is, what do you do then, take control yourself or let any tom dick or harry stick their oar in possibly resulting in an injury to a passenger ?, I always preferred to keep my job and do what I was paid for, to keep the passengers and my fellow staff in one piece

If I open the doors you cant get the brake off to couple them up . If you dont tell me not to open the doors because you want to couple then I will do as I have been instructed to do on arrival at a station where I am booked to stop and open my doors . That is not me sticking my oar in or getting involved . That is me doing my job .

If you dont tell me you are going to couple so I can make the announcement warning any passengers on board that the unit is about to couple up then any injuries that occur as a result of an unannounced coupling will be your responsibility . Its not just you that has responsibilities to keep the passengers safe during coupling .

If you dont tell me you are coupling so I can ensure my DKS is off and then there is no continuity and the buzzer doesn't work or door controls dont operate as required as a result , it is you that is going to have to split and rejoin them and you that will then have to explain any delay as a result of this .

 

[HarleyDavidson]

If there was a plank of a driver with a chip on his shoulder then would that have been recorded in the log? Or is it just an old saw?

Boo Hiss Gerr off...

 

[Jonny]

Would it help to turn off the interior lights during coupling, so it doesn't look like a train that's about to be missed?

Also, on units that support it, set the LEDs that surround the door control buttons to flash red in an unusual manner (i.e. not the same as doors opening/closing)

Remember, these are situations with passengers on board. Turning off the main interior lights would be inappropriate.

 

[HarleyDavidson]

Bournemouth & Southampton are two locations where attachments & detachments are common place, particularly during the peak periods where passengers remain on the train whilst it's attached/detached.

There's an automated announcement for such things.

 

[LexyBoy]

Is there a requirement to stop and check that decoupling has occurred properly? I was a bit surprised recently on a Southern service recently which stopped at a station as 12 car, then after the usual stop time the front 8 coaches (with me inside) departed immediately. I didn't see the rear portion so it could be that it pulled back beforehand - just in my limited experience it's been the front which has detached, and stopped, before departing.

(Some confusion when it was announced over the PA that the train would be splitting - first I knew of it as it wasn't announced at the station where I boarded, and the on-board signs were not working. Of course, nobody knew which coach they were in...)

 

[BestWestern]

Ok then, you're the driver and you're trying to carry out a safe movement, you then get a train manager or a member of platform staff who decides to take over and do his/her own thing, which happens regardless of how perfect you think your teamwork is, what do you do then, take control yourself or let any tom dick or harry stick their oar in possibly resulting in an injury to a passenger ?, I always preferred to keep my job and do what I was paid for, to keep the passengers and my fellow staff in one piece

I agree, but surely it's teamwork?! The Guard is responsible for closing or authorising you to close the doors beforehand, assuming you're not full DOO? Whoever is doing it shouldn't be unless the punters are clear of the doors and the train, which is where the platform staff are handy, and so on... Something which always tends to p*ss me off is when you arrive at a platform where you're attaching or splitting, open em up and walk to the other end so as to be where the action is, and before you get there your front cab-dwelling colleague decides that actually they will close the doors, because they belong to that mysterious group of drivers who are constantly in a hurry with these things! Grrrr. I'm fairly sure if the Guard hopped into the cab and started shutting down or starting engines because they were in a rush, most drivers would have something to say about it, and likewise if the platform staff decided to phone the panel on the driver's 'behalf', and so on. Equally some platform staff will also leap in and start excitedly pressing door buttons. It's a minor gripe but it still constitutes incorrect procedure, and besides that I don't like being locked out of my own train!

 

[Parham Wood]

If a unit stops short, does not detrain passengers and then couples up at what time is the incoming service considered to have arrived? Logic says that it is only when the pax have started to detrain or the moment the doors are opened for them. If this is true then presumably an allowance in the timetable is made for the coupling up to take place before official arrival.

 

[muz379]

I agree, but surely it's teamwork?! The Guard is responsible for closing or authorising you to close the doors beforehand, assuming you're not full DOO? Whoever is doing it shouldn't be unless the punters are clear of the doors and the train, which is where the platform staff are handy, and so on... Something which always tends to p*ss me off is when you arrive at a platform where you're attaching or splitting, open em up and walk to the other end so as to be where the action is, and before you get there your front cab-dwelling colleague decides that actually they will close the doors, because they belong to that mysterious group of drivers who are constantly in a hurry with these things! Grrrr. I'm fairly sure if the Guard hopped into the cab and started shutting down or starting engines because they were in a rush, most drivers would have something to say about it, and likewise if the platform staff decided to phone the panel on the driver's 'behalf', and so on. Equally some platform staff will also leap in and start excitedly pressing door buttons. It's a minor gripe but it still constitutes incorrect procedure, and besides that I don't like being locked out of my own train!

I agree , Ive experienced drivers before in a rush with their coupling or splitting to get an on time departure because they'd rather spend an extra 5 minutes in the mess mouthing off than actually doing the job they are paid to do . And no before anybody jumps in they where not on a late PNB or anything like that .

 

[starrymarkb]

I once had a plank of a driver who I can only assume was only used to coupling empty stock. I was the dispatcher and he refused to couple two trains unless I detrained them first. I decided far easier than detraining two intercity services would be to ring control and drop him in it as he was also rather rude. Funnily enough after a short phone conversation occurred he got on with it.

I've had TPX force everyone off a pair of 158s so they could split them. For someone used to Salisbury splitting and combining 159s with passengers onboard in 2 mins it was rather strange to be forced off

 

[ExRes]

I agree , Ive experienced drivers before in a rush with their coupling or splitting to get an on time departure because they'd rather spend an extra 5 minutes in the mess mouthing off than actually doing the job they are paid to do . And no before anybody jumps in they where not on a late PNB or anything like that .

I'm sure that virtually every driver could return your stupid comment with interest, what are you, on train or platform ?, but of course none of those grades would dream of 'mouthing off', oops, you just did

 

[najaB]

I've had TPX force everyone off a pair of 158s so they could split them...

That's unusual, when they used to join/split at Carlisle I don't once remember them detraining the passengers. Where did this happen?

 

[muz379]

I'm sure that virtually every driver could return your stupid comment with interest, what are you, on train or platform ?, but of course none of those grades would dream of 'mouthing off', oops, you just did

Oh A lot of people in my grade also mouth off .But then we weren't talking about my grade , we where talking about drivers .

Im not the one that completely ballsed up the coupling procedure later resulting in units splitting out of course because of being in a rush to do it . But I know someone who did . And they are often someone that does as I said above .Of course they got their chat with no tea or biscuits which gave them something else to mouth off about which was kinda funny .

 

[D1009]

At FGW stations, maybe so, but I can assure you that this does not apply at some other locations. So there are a couple of ways of doing this.

XC attach Voyagers at Bristol Temple Meads on northbound services fairly regularly. Doors are always released prior to attachment, and there is often concern among passengers when they are subsequently closed without warning.

 

[hassaanhc]

In my experiences, only SWT (at Waterloo and Bournemouth) attach first before releasing the doors.

All the following I've seen release doors, then close again to attach/split, before opening the doors again.
Southern at London Bridge and Horsham
London Midland at Euston and Northampton
EMT at Nottingham
Greater Anglia at Liverpool Street
TPE at Preston

 

[SpacePhoenix]

Do all Desiros have the doors and traction motors "interlocked" so that the driver can't take power when any doors are open?

 

[Kentish Paul]

Is there a requirement to stop and check that decoupling has occurred properly? I was a bit surprised recently on a Southern service recently which stopped at a station as 12 car, then after the usual stop time the front 8 coaches (with me inside) departed immediately. I didn't see the rear portion so it could be that it pulled back beforehand - just in my limited experience it's been the front which has detached, and stopped, before departing.

(Some confusion when it was announced over the PA that the train would be splitting - first I knew of it as it wasn't announced at the station where I boarded, and the on-board signs were not working. Of course, nobody knew which coach they were in...)

At Ashford when decoupling takes place with a 395 the onboard manager will physically watch the detachment and will signal the rear half driver that the units are indeed seperated.

Not sure if Ashford is the coupling/decoupling capital but it certainly happens 4 times an hour minimum. Add on the HS1 peak time and various Victoria line joins/unjoins and it all adds up.

I love the pull back test when a 466 couples to the rear of a 465. The 466 goes into reverse and vainly tries to move the 465 with much noise and vibration.

 

[HarleyDavidson]

Do all Desiros have the doors and traction motors "interlocked" so that the driver can't take power when any doors are open?

Lose door interlock, you'll get a full brake application if stationary or an emergency brake at speed.

 

[CyrusWuff]

If a unit stops short, does not detrain passengers and then couples up at what time is the incoming service considered to have arrived? Logic says that it is only when the pax have started to detrain or the moment the doors are opened for them. If this is true then presumably an allowance in the timetable is made for the coupling up to take place before official arrival.

From the point of view of TRUST and the like, it's when the train enters the "berth" in the signalling system that triggers the arrival report...which could be a minute or more before it actually comes to a stand and the doors are released.

 

[BestWestern]

XC attach Voyagers at Bristol Temple Meads on northbound services fairly regularly. Doors are always released prior to attachment, and there is often concern among passengers when they are subsequently closed without warning.

There should always be an announcement made on board, and ideally platform staff in place to advise the punters trying to get on.

 

[Starmill]

Yeah maybe in your world, but here in the real world if we try and do it that way when we try to close the doors to couple up some wan idiot will think the train is going and force the doors open. That is why we do it the way we do, because of the stupid passengers who eff the job up for everyone else!

London Midland do it that way at Birmingham New St sometimes - I have never once watched it and not seen passengers going crazy about the fact they're locking up 10 minutes before departure time, people thinking they're stuck on while family is on the platform banging on the windows, hammering open buttons and shouting at the driver and co doing the coupling are all things I've seen there!

 

[starrymarkb]

That's unusual, when they used to join/split at Carlisle I don't once remember them detraining the passengers. Where did this happen?

Scarborough - it was April 06 IIRC (I was heading back from Whitby) - One of the two was the 158 in Regional Railways colours (which later turned up in FGW land)