Great coupling

[VP185]

We regularly couple and even uncouple at locations across the London Thames Valley region, Reading, Oxford and Paddington before releasing the doors. Makes life a lot easier and, especially at Paddington in the peak, once the doors are released passengers can board the empty unit which results in the platform clearing quicker for those passengers leaving the train. If you release the doors first some platforms become too crowded much makes coupling awkward and you always get a passenger who takes his/her time to leave a train and when they see the doors closing pulls the passcom.

There's normally another driver or fitter present with the set to be coupled to who gives you the thumbs up if everything is OK. You are supposed to stop first but a number of drivers go straight on.

 

[Tracky]

Coupling first saves time. Should be preceded by an announcement. Happens a lot at Mach and Shrewsbury...

 

[najaB]

Scarborough - it was April 06 IIRC (I was heading back from Whitby) - One of the two was the 158 in Regional Railways colours (which later turned up in FGW land)

Maybe they changed their procedures as when the Glasgow and Edinburgh portions used to join and split at Carlisle they would stop and open the doors, then close them while they were coupling and then open them again afterwards. I'm 99% sure they do things this way at Preston.

 

[edwin_m]

Maybe they changed their procedures as when the Glasgow and Edinburgh portions used to join and split at Carlisle they would stop and open the doors, then close them while they were coupling and then open them again afterwards. I'm 99% sure they do things this way at Preston.

I think so too. Another reason to open the doors first is that on something like a 185 with no through gangways, it gives people in the wrong portion a bit more time to get themselves into the correct one.

 

[ExRes]

Oh A lot of people in my grade also mouth off .But then we weren't talking about my grade , we where talking about drivers .

Im not the one that completely ballsed up the coupling procedure later resulting in units splitting out of course because of being in a rush to do it . But I know someone who did . And they are often someone that does as I said above .Of course they got their chat with no tea or biscuits which gave them something else to mouth off about which was kinda funny .

I did actually notice that at least one person in your grade, whatever that might be, tends to mouth off

I assume that I was only dreaming on the numerous occasions that Train Managers, Customer Hosts and Platform Staff used their T key to open the galley door on a 222 when I was in the middle of coupling or splitting, but hey, what does it matter if they broke the interlock and endangered themselves or their colleagues while i was carrying out a safety critical movement, I expect their concentration was broken by a gang of drivers mouthing off on the platform or something, maybe I should have reported them each time they cocked up so they could enjoy a chat with no tea or biscuits, that would've been kinda funny as well don't you think

 

[LowLevel]

If you came to a clear understanding with your guard regarding the movement being made then that is indeed their problem as they're responsible for managing the onboard staff. However I don't think we need a ridiculous inter grade online slanging match

I find the easiest way to go about it is I tell the driver when I'm releasing the doors, he does the coupling at the appropriate time, and I release the doors when he tells me he is done. It was your rather sweeping statement that it's nowt to do with anyone bar the driver that I think people were taking issue with, whereas in reality you need a clear, cooperative understanding between the guard, person in charge of the platform and driver.

 

[bigdelboy]

Couple of points on the different techniques:

stop-opendoors-closedoors-couple-opendoors-closedoors-go

- This is better for those changing at an interchange station such as guildford .. less chance of missing a connection
- Electorstars (e.g. southern) have a faster door sequence than desiros (e.g. SWT) so this is less impacting for them.

stop-couple-opendoors-closedoors-go

- This is worse for those changing at an interchange station such as guildford .. more chance of missing a connection and EXTREMELY frustrating if that happens.
- As has been said probably quicker overall.

 

[sarahj]

Down here in southern land, the guard has nothing to do with the split/attachment bar just an announcement before arrival and one when its done. The job is done by driver and platform staff.

As for the splits. During a split the doors stay open on the front unit and closed on the rear unit during a split as its the rear one thats moving. If I'm working a front unit, as soon as the platform staff has done the split and informed me, my GKS goes on and you get to hear something like.' this train has now divided. If you can hear me, this is the service for Littlehampton, calling at Burgess Hill, (etc etc). Any passengers requiring connections towards Lewes and Eastbourne should leave this train immediately'. The driver then puts in the PIS code, its time to go, we get the tip and off we go.
If your doing the rear part, you have to wait until the driver releases the doors. Some drivers (units) are faster than others.

On attachments, one thing of note is the driver, when instructed must take power, move slightly, brake, then take power again and attach. If they dont do the little brake its classed as a collision and its time for tea and biccies.

We never have to detrain passengers. I guess with the amount of attaching/ detaching we do, we have it down to a fine art. It goes wrong only very rarely, and can only be frustrating when your asked to attach your units at midnight, at Barnham in a blizzard with a 7 inches of standing snow. Your allowed 3 attempts at a attachment before your supposed to stop. Dread to think how many times we tried. Someone even got the kettle out. Bizzare night, we eventually 'stole' another train to get back to Brighton.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

Does it make much difference as to which method is best for when one unit is being brought into service (arriving ECS from somewhere) or it both units are in service, having presumably arrived from different places?

 

[sarahj]

If its ECS's the doors will not be opened until the attachment is done, and then only if the unit is due into service. As for others, well all I can say is, thats how we do it down here, its the way we are used to. Some may say its best, some may not. Its almost a ' how high is up' question.

 

[muz379]

I did actually notice that at least one person in your grade, whatever that might be, tends to mouth off

I assume that I was only dreaming on the numerous occasions that Train Managers, Customer Hosts and Platform Staff used their T key to open the galley door on a 222 when I was in the middle of coupling or splitting, but hey, what does it matter if they broke the interlock and endangered themselves or their colleagues while i was carrying out a safety critical movement, I expect their concentration was broken by a gang of drivers mouthing off on the platform or something, maybe I should have reported them each time they cocked up so they could enjoy a chat with no tea or biscuits, that would've been kinda funny as well don't you think

I never said that my grade never mouthed off , you must have imagined me saying that . I know my grade cock up as well and I know they mouth off . A lot of people on the railway do not realizing how good they have it .
Ive seen platform staff messing with doors which at my TOC they are not supposed to do , ive seen drivers messing with them as well which again they are not allowed to ,ive seen guards messing with stuff they arent supposed to , or mouthing off in the mess room getting to their train just in time so then it leaves late because platform staff dont bell you out till you get there.All grades do it

If i came accross like I was implying only drivers mouth off or cock up I appologise Im fully aware all grades can do and have mouthed off and cocked up .In this thread we where talking about drivers mainly so thats why I mentioned drivers mouthing off .


Ive seen drivers couple up to a unit before I have closed the local door with the butterfly which is interfering with my safety critical part of the coupling procedure in a dangerous manner . We could go on all day about things that we see other grades doing , but at least I acknowledge my grade do get it wrong sometimes , you seem incapable of acknowledging despite it being evidenced many times that your grade also do dumb things for seemingly pointless reasons .


As for reporting , The guard rightly reported the split to control whilst the driver spoke to the signaller , the guard didnt know why they had split, the unit was downloaded as per procedure and all became apparent . Luckily it was non corridor stock or his actions could have cost people their lives which could have ended much more seriously than a chat with no tea and biscuits for him .

If you think someone is acting in a dangerous way doing their job then maybe you should report it and they should get their chat with no tea or biccies .Do what many do and dont report it I dont really care its on your conscience if one day it does go pear shaped and its someone you've observed acting dangerously that decision is for you and you alone though .

I know guards who have had their tea and no biccies chat for doing things they know they shouldnt and yes it is ironic that it is usually the ones that mouth off the most who have the most issues and it is funny that the chat gives them something else to moan about .

 

[Starmill]

On attachments, one thing of note is the driver, when instructed must take power, move slightly, brake, then take power again and attach. If they dont do the little brake its classed as a collision and its time for tea and biccies.

We never have to detrain passengers. I guess with the amount of attaching/ detaching we do, we have it down to a fine art. It goes wrong only very rarely, and can only be frustrating when your asked to attach your units at midnight, at Barnham in a blizzard with a 7 inches of standing snow. Your allowed 3 attempts at a attachment before your supposed to stop. Dread to think how many times we tried. Someone even got the kettle out. Bizzare night, we eventually 'stole' another train to get back to Brighton.

I have to say, what I have seen at Horsham and Haywards Heath certainly looks a lot more 'polished' than anywhere else! I suppose modern stock helps.

 

[TDK]

SWTs don't do a pull-away test (afaik) with the 444s and 450s as the computer shuts a cab down as soon as it detects another unit has coupled to it.

Do any other classes of unit built since around 2000 shut the cabs down as soon as they detect another unit has coupled to it?

A pull away test MUST be done, surely the desk doesn't shut down until the couple button has been pressed? If it does it is breaching safety.

 

[MCR247]

I'm sure this discussion has been had recently in another thread.
IIRC quite a few people were surprised that they don't (and can't?) do a pull away test on desiros

 

[edwin_m]

The Desiro has a different type of coupling from classes 142-170 and also different electrical circuitry. I imagine these are able to prove that the coupler is fully engaged and therefore can be relied on without having to do a pull test.

Certainly there have been a few cases of 142-170 separating after ostensibly being coupled together, which is probably the reason why a pull test is now required for these classes. I'm not aware of anything similar happening to Desiros.

 

[455driver]

A pull away test MUST be done, surely the desk doesn't shut down until the couple button has been pressed? If it does it is breaching safety.

There is no couple button on the 444/450s, you bash them together and that is it, the cab shuts down immediately the trains are attached on the 444 and 450s so you are wrong on that one, all you do after bashing them together is sit there until you are requested to press the "acknowledge configuration" button on the TMS.

Can you explain if a pull away test must be done how SWT have got away without doing one for the last 10 years?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I'm sure this discussion has been had recently in another thread.
IIRC quite a few people were surprised that they don't (and can't?) do a pull away test on desiros

It was discussed recently and I am sure we will have to go through it again in a few months! :roll:

 

[dgl]

I thought that on dellner coupled units (like the 444/450) due to the design there is no requirement to do a pull away test, possibly because there are features within the coupler that will not show to the driver that the units have coupled unless it has been sucessful, but on tightlock/BSI coupled units (i.e. sprinters/networkers) there is more chance of coupling not being successful thus a pull away is required.

It's probably a mixture of improved coupler design and electronics/computers that can detect/prevent unsuccessful coupling.

Note: this is just a laymans view and I have no real world experience in this so ignore if necessary