It would be lovely to have a railway with no influence from the government, but at the end of the day the railways eat up a sizable wad of cash every year. If the government was some say in how the railways are wrong I’d argue there isn’t much way anyone can say no, unless GBR can somehow remove the need for subsidy.
There was. Inter-city just had that on the side of coaches. I would be happy to back to the old sector liveries. NSE was ok. Not sure if Anglia would have 3 liveries as a result however
Yeah. At the end of the day, i think it's just flag waving and triumphism rather than an actual identity brand. However, since the railways change so much every decade, they probably will apply a new livery within the next few years
My hope is that when GBR is established and gets going the whole brand issue will be revisited.
That's true. Hopefully when GBR is up and running they can make changes and improvements going forward so yeah we might potentially see a sectorisation approach similar to 1982 on a modern level.
I saw the 114 at Lancaster (they weren't common there), and got my last TWPTE Class 143 at Windermere.
No because a) it is a DfT specified operation, b) GoVia no longer run it and c) it would very quickly fail the ORR's revenue abstraction test.
Probably not, because it will struggle to pass the 'not primarily abstractive' test.
GBR won't exist for another year, at best. Once it does exist, there'll be a lot to do, and many trains (357s, SWR 158s/159s, a few Electrostar classes, possibly some Chiltern stock, etc) and stations (EWR, Cambridge South, Euston, Waterloo, etc) that will have undergone, or started to undergo repaints and refurbs and new trains being delivered, like the LNER 897s. Why wait until a busy period of reorganisation to start designing? If they waited, they could end up not having a livery until 2028 - the design process is a lot more than just sketching something down! Additionally, from a government perspective, this is a key campaign promise. The general public is not as tuned into this as we are on here. People want to see something to know that they're doing something, which is why they're flashing it on all the new and refurbed stock - 'oh, my GBR train is so nice and has AC! Thanks, Keir' - or something like that.
Lets not forget the "Inter City" blue and grey livery that started appearing on express stock from around the mid 1970s. In my area, the last batch of 4-VEPs on the Southern (7854-7894?) were outshopped new in this livery and I believe suburban EPBs started receiving it in the early 1980s.
I think you must have mixed me up with someone else because I can't get my head around how this relates to anything I said.
Sorry, I might've been a bit unclear. You said
in your original message. My response was to that, that the people who designed the branding could (and likely will) move into GBR when it's set up, making the point essentially moot as it's the same people. This was done internally at the DfT with some team members from DFTO. They'll transfer over to GBR, and so, it was (in a way) up to GBR. Also, a lot of GBR's starting senior team is probably already with DFTO, and they would've had to approve it.
Right, I now understand what you meant - thanks. However, I certainly don't agree with what you're saying at all.
I have it on good authority that the bold bit isn't true. The ministers may have given the brief to 'design a livery' but they did not determine the livery, and certainly didn't decide it (other than approval, I presume). It was an in house team of designers.
That may be true. That may not be true. We simply don't know yet, but even if they don't think the design work of GBR should have anything to do with civil servants, it has been. Not only do we have no good reason to assume they wouldn't do something similar, but even if they would, as I said above, we likely wouldn't start to see it until 2028. Hiring designers, getting them to start work, creating the finished products (since liveries have to be tweaked for every kind of unit or unit family), and starting to apply them would take a while. Getting started now just saves GBR some cost, and crucially, gives visibility to the public that GBR is actually happening.
And again you're claiming I said things which I didn't. I didn't say government ministers actually designed the livery. It was their decision to adopt a livery for GBR before GBR comes into being. Of course they issued the brief and approved it.
You're clutching at straws there.
We don't really have anything but straws to clutch at. But sure.
It'll be very, very similar to a franchise change. The names will be stickered over very quickly (1st one or two nights) but with the livery taking a lot longer to repaint, so you'll have 'GBR | EC' stickered trains running around with the LNER colours underneath.
That's always fun to look at. I do wonder when this will happen though, as people have suggested that the Azumas will start to be done this month (apparently?) but that would be a very quick change to happen so soon. Alternatively, why not Anglia? The 357s are undergoing repaints and this is a name change that's pretty needed across the Anglia region.
I know they aren’t everyone’s favourite company here, but LNER have established a strong brand image with the generic public. Surely that isn’t all going to be thrown in the bin so soon?
Here's an "out there" thought: they could have a brand for long distance, one for south east commuters, and one for all other shorter distance routes.
True, but they're not a million miles away from leisure customers using GWR, XC or AWC - do they really all need separate branding, mascots and marketing teams?
Not sure it matters that much.. i think its overstated, as with GWR. I doubt 'its an LNER train' is a fact in peoples decision to buy a rail ticket, (infact u could argue they are so uncomfortable it might work againat them).
