Grand Central platform staff

[kermit]

It all depends how they said it.

In my view it's fair enough though. Grand Central don't have any station/ground staff other than maybe two or three.The East Coast staff will have had other priorities such as dispatching other services etc. so why should they be taken away from that for another train company's benefit? The EC members of staff will be the ones taking the abuse, why shouldn't it be the GC staff? I'm not saying the abuse is right, merely pointing out it will happen and if it is going to be directed towards someone then it should be toward the right people! Why should East Coast get a bad rep for a Grand Central problem?

Or to look at it another way, why do we continue to accept a fragmented rail system, with in-built inefficiency, poor overall customer service and the inevitability of precisely this kind of situation? Time to re-invent a modern, integrated, customer focussed British Rail that all staff are proud to work for.

 

[Tetchytyke]

If GC paid EC to despatch their trains, would the staff be more helpful? - Discuss

Very probably. IME some of the EC middle management swallowed all of GNER's hatred of GC whole, and a decade on still haven't let go of it.

It's not a Doncaster problem, it's a railway problem. Whoever is the dominant operator gets all the control, even at stations which are supposedly managed impartially by Network Rail. The difference at Euston, for instance, between a Virgin problem and a London Midland problem is marked; if you're travelling LM or Overground you're basically left to your own devices, because the station staff are too busy pandering to Virgin.

Grand Central's control are hopeless though.

 

[Urban Gateline]

if you're travelling LM or Overground you're basically left to your own devices, because the station staff are too busy pandering to Virgin.

LM have their own platform/RPI/Booking office and control staff at Euston so this is not the case that you won't get help in disruption!

 

[87019Chris]

GC self Dispatch as the guards have to be trained to dispatch trains at the likes of Brighouse and Wakefield Kirkgate so why pay to train them to dispatch themselves and then pay EC to Dispatch there trains as well, doesn't make financial sense. But some sort of customer service help would be good at York Doncaster and KGX if they could pay EC for it.

 

[Urban Gateline]

GC self Dispatch as the guards have to be trained to dispatch trains at the likes of Brighouse and Wakefield Kirkgate so why pay to train them to dispatch themselves and then pay EC to Dispatch there trains as well, doesn't make financial sense. But some sort of customer service help would be good at York Doncaster and KGX if they could pay EC for it.

It may be that GC just don't want to pay out for someone to dispatch them to keep costs down. The reason you mentioned first can't be true as the likes of VT and EC Guards self dispatch at smaller stations like Sandwell and Dudley or Gleneagles, however at the larger stations they get assisted dispatch, like FCC staff dispatching EC trains at Stevenage!

 

[87019Chris]

It may be that GC just don't want to pay out for someone to dispatch them to keep costs down. The reason you mentioned first can't be true as the likes of VT and EC Guards self dispatch at smaller stations like Sandwell and Dudley or Gleneagles, however at the larger stations they get assisted dispatch, like FCC staff dispatching EC trains at Stevenage!

I was just assuming this but now you mention it that's a good point, however I think it is just to keep cost's down too. And I wonder if you asked about a Northern Service Would you get the same treatment from the EC staff as if you asked about a GC service in a similar situation?

 

[Urban Gateline]

And I wonder if you asked about a Northern Service Would you get the same treatment from the EC staff as if you asked about a GC service in a similar situation?

I would say it depends on the individual member of staff, some will help no matter what TOC is concerned whilst others might try to fob you off saying it's nothing to do with them!

I think the latter attitude does staff no favours, you end up with disgruntled passengers with a negative view of the Railway industry, any staff who take pride in their job will help out in the name of good customer service.

 

[Luke185]

Speaking to train crew a while back, sounds to me like a lot of the decisions of Xc control with regards to GC are very last minute and not very proactive. Whether they had told the Guard to get people onto that other EC or not I can't say, but it seems unlikely they would have got an agreement with EC that quickly! I travel a fair bit from Thirsk and Wakefield and i've always found GC staff very good in delays/cancellations, quite often they are on the platform or come through the train. But sounds like this is more an issue with Doncaster staff, rather than GC (ok - yes it's annoying they cancelled the train, but it happens) - surely they are there to help all passengers if they are "station staff" - regardless of which TOC is carrying them?!

 

[brompton rail]

I thought EC dispatchers at Doncaster were there to dispatch trains (their own and XC) on time. If the EC Leeds train had the road, who would pay for notifying the signal box, and then re- notifying the box and the subsequent delay minutes. By the way, Doncaster to Leeds services are three times per hour during most of the day.

 

[Sleepy]

I thought EC dispatchers at Doncaster were there to dispatch trains (their own and XC) on time. If the EC Leeds train had the road, who would pay for notifying the signal box, and then re- notifying the box and the subsequent delay minutes. By the way, Doncaster to Leeds services are three times per hour during most of the day.

Unfortunately there could be a train every 5 minutes - people will still complain like they have been asked to push the train to Leeds ! If they are aware of a train it MUST be the one caught at all costs. I have witnessed many tantrums at Colchester for example when the next train is only 3 minutes later

 

[Tetchytyke]

Unfortunately there could be a train every 5 minutes - people will still complain like they have been asked to push the train to Leeds

In this case there is a 40-minute gap between the 2145 EC and the 2223 EC. That is a frustrating gap when, with an additional 30 seconds, you could have caught the previous one.

LM have their own platform/RPI/Booking office and control staff at Euston so this is not the case that you won't get help in disruption!

Something seems to go wrong in disruption then. Virgin get all the announcements, the help for LM seems to disappear. It's a common complaint on LM's twitter feed whenever the job stops out of Euston; something that's happening a lot due to the signalling between Harrow and Watford.

 

[robertclark125]

I think it's worth pointing out that in timetables there are statements which read, to the effect of "we can't hold up trains for a minute or two to allow people to make tight connections, or to avoid missed connections. It's in the interests of the people on board that the train leaves on time".

The other point is, the guard saw the service (I presume) come into the other platform, and just assumed that everyone could get on board it. I know he may have been trying to help customers, but sometimes there are procedures to go through, and as annoying as it may sound, I don't think he did go through them properly.

I'm not familiar with the layout at Doncaster, so I don't know if there was a sizable waiting room for passengers on the platform the GC service failed in, but would it not have been better for the GC guard to say "go to the waiting room, and as soon as I can, I'll tell you what to do next."

 

[northernchris]

I take it they offered impartial advice? Sorry to be a pedant, but my Mum picked me up on this the other day, in public too! I'm 47 3/4!

Haha, I never knew it meant that

Whoever is the dominant operator gets all the control, even at stations which are supposedly managed impartially by Network Rail

Is there a reason why Network Rail manage some large stations but not all? I've found Leeds to be reasonably good at providing info during disruption whereas Doncaster is more hit and miss. Even during normal circumstances it isn't uncommon for the Northern services to not be announced at all whereas the East Coast services will get 2-3 announcements

 

[Andyh82]

I'm not familiar with the layout at Doncaster, so I don't know if there was a sizable waiting room for passengers on the platform the GC service failed in, but would it not have been better for the GC guard to say "go to the waiting room, and as soon as I can, I'll tell you what to do next."

If everyone hadn't rushed off like there was a fire, we could have stayed sat in the train. The failed train stayed in the platform for a while before being moved to the carriage sidings.

 

[wensley]

I thought EC dispatchers at Doncaster were there to dispatch trains (their own and XC) on time. If the EC Leeds train had the road, who would pay for notifying the signal box, and then re- notifying the box and the subsequent delay minutes. By the way, Doncaster to Leeds services are three times per hour during most of the day.

The delay would have gone back to the GC delay incident if Control had agreed ticket acceptance on that train as it would have been an 'authorised connection'. In these circumstances it does sound like bad timing hindered by the EC staff at Doncaster. I've always found them to be very good in the main, but do tend to disappear when it all kicks off.

GC have a station rep at Kings Cross, shared with FHT, which works well across the spread of trains. At EC stations the station access charges include the provision of customer service to passengers.

With regards dispatch, EC's trains are almost twice as long, justifying the assisted dispatch on the platform - for GC surely this is an unnecessary cost - arguably platforms like Halifax are worse to dispatch from than York or Doncaster.

 

[TUC]

I still come back to the fact that all of the above discussion seems to be based on which companies have train despatch responsibilities rather than who has station management responsibilities which is every bit ad much a relevant consideration in terms of who should be looking after disrupted passengers.

 

[kermit]

I still come back to the fact that all of the above discussion seems to be based on which companies have train despatch responsibilities rather than who has station management responsibilities which is every bit ad much a relevant consideration in terms of who should be looking after disrupted passengers.

Which all, fundamentally, arises from the fragmentation of responsibility that has been the inevitable consequence of botched privatisation.
I can't believe people get caught up in the sterile debate of who was justified in doing what - none of it should have happened in the first place, because all railway staff should be working for one clearly identifiable and responsible company, for the wellbeing of every customer.

Headlines today about outrageous profiteering amid woeful customer service from the privatised utilities. Ring any bells??

 

[OMGitsDAVE]

Grand Central have 'Travel Ambassadors' iirc at Hartlepool and Eaglescliffe who turn up in orange jackets before each departure. I'm not sure where they go in between...

The Station Ambassadors are voluntary, and as far as I can recall only visit the stations on Sundays, as this is when most travel disruption occurs. This is definately the case for the Hartlepool SA's, and they only arrive for the Southbound departures. They are not trained fully, but do have access to the Control Room for updates and information relating to specific trains!

 

[ATW Alex 101]

I also noted the station ambassadors whilst waiting for a Grand Central train at Brighouse earlier this month. I noticed they were older people and my first thoughts they were something similar to the volunteers that work on the S&C line.

They were very friendly and asked us (me and Class92) where we were going and whether we had used GC before and then talked about the general service when we mentioned we were just bashing. In my opinion things like that can make peoples journey experience better as they aren't in your face and are very pleasent with you.

 

[Moonshot]

I also noted the station ambassadors whilst waiting for a Grand Central train at Brighouse earlier this month. I noticed they were older people and my first thoughts they were something similar to the volunteers that work on the S&C line.

They were very friendly and asked us (me and Class92) where we were going and whether we had used GC before and then talked about the general service when we mentioned we were just bashing. In my opinion things like that can make peoples journey experience better as they aren't in your face and are very pleasent with you.

Do you think that the whole UK rail experience would be a lot better from the passengers point of view if we had more of these ambassadors?

 

[reb0118]

Do you think that the whole UK rail experience would be a lot better from the passengers point of view if we had more of these ambassadors?

Yes, because the money saved by not paying these "ambassadors" a wage can be ploughed into improving passenger, sorry customer, comfort on trains and at stations.

 

[Moonshot]

Yes, because the money saved by not paying these "ambassadors" a wage can be ploughed into improving passenger, sorry customer, comfort on trains and at stations.

So assuming they are volunteers and tend to be older , there has to be an attraction for doing this type of role, and I m almost certain that the attraction would be free rail travel in much the same way as Station Adopters get anyway.

Would you feel that this ambassador type role would be further enhanced if the person carrying out this role was paid and had very good customer service skills?

 

[ModernRailways]

Yes, because the money saved by not paying these "ambassadors" a wage can be ploughed into improving passenger, sorry customer, comfort on trains and at stations.

I'm not sure if you're being sarcastic or serious. I do hope it's the former though!


I, personally, would hate someone coming up to me asking where I was going, what I was doing and just generally trying to have a chat with me. I'm there to catch my train, if I need help I'll ask, otherwise leave me alone. I'm probably not the only one to have this view either.

 

[Gemz91]

I'm not sure if you're being sarcastic or serious. I do hope it's the former though!


I, personally, would hate someone coming up to me asking where I was going, what I was doing and just generally trying to have a chat with me. I'm there to catch my train, if I need help I'll ask, otherwise leave me alone. I'm probably not the only one to have this view either.

I'm quite the opposite. Always happy to chat away to anybody about anything. Sort of thing, that if happened to me, it'd probably make me use them again in future if I'd not used them before. But you can't please everyone.

 

[maniacmartin]

I'm not sure if you're being sarcastic or serious. I do hope it's the former though!


I, personally, would hate someone coming up to me asking where I was going, what I was doing and just generally trying to have a chat with me. I'm there to catch my train, if I need help I'll ask, otherwise leave me alone. I'm probably not the only one to have this view either.

I would hate it too. Its why I avoid small shops

 

[ATW Alex 101]

Each to their own I guess.

 

[tsr]

Each to their own I guess.

Quite. Unless I am feeling particularly ill or suchlike, I will happily chat to anyone who wants to have a reasonable conversation - train-related or not. Staff who approach customers whilst they wait for a train in normal circumstances do usually (in my experience) tend to have at least some sort of passing cheerful remark which will go some way to making the journey a bit more pleasant. If they were that grumpy they probably wouldn't approach you! I understand that some people need/want to be left alone, but in general, I think it's good to be sociable, when so much rail use (commuting in large cities, for example) feels impersonal and strangely solitary.

 

[Moonshot]

Quite. Unless I am feeling particularly ill or suchlike, I will happily chat to anyone who wants to have a reasonable conversation - train-related or not. Staff who approach customers whilst they wait for a train in normal circumstances do usually (in my experience) tend to have at least some sort of passing cheerful remark which will go some way to making the journey a bit more pleasant. If they were that grumpy they probably wouldn't approach you! I understand that some people need/want to be left alone, but in general, I think it's good to be sociable, when so much rail use (commuting in large cities, for example) feels impersonal and strangely solitary.

This post in bold has hit the nail squarely on the head...

How many passengers do you see nowadays who are wearing headphones and totally oblivious to what is happening around them.?

 

[Craglad1975]

That's a great idea British rail , I think that could work

 

[ModernRailways]

I'm quite the opposite. Always happy to chat away to anybody about anything. Sort of thing, that if happened to me, it'd probably make me use them again in future if I'd not used them before. But you can't please everyone.

It wouldn't stop me using them, but I would probably time when I go to avoid them, or make sure I have headphones in so I can pass them - I don't usually have headphones in, I only use them to avoid contact with other people.

I would hate it too. Its why I avoid small shops

It's why I use Tesco for the most part, as all their stores near me have self-service checkouts. I'll say 'Thanks' to the person operating them, unless they are busy, but that's as far as I go. I hate talking to shop staff, because they either try to get you buy something else, or they want to know your life story.

Quite. Unless I am feeling particularly ill or suchlike, I will happily chat to anyone who wants to have a reasonable conversation - train-related or not. Staff who approach customers whilst they wait for a train in normal circumstances do usually (in my experience) tend to have at least some sort of passing cheerful remark which will go some way to making the journey a bit more pleasant. If they were that grumpy they probably wouldn't approach you! I understand that some people need/want to be left alone, but in general, I think it's good to be sociable, when so much rail use (commuting in large cities, for example) feels impersonal and strangely solitary.

Maybe, that's why I love public transport so much? I hate getting a Taxi, or even a lift of people because you have to make small talk and I hate it!


I should point out though, I'm happy to talk to people, but if I'm not interested in what they are saying then I pretty much blank them and just give one word replies. If they are discussing something interested in - the railway, games etc. - then I could talk for my local town but other than that I prefer to sit in my own little world listening to things around me. I never wear headphones either because I'm not sure if others can hear them and obviously we don't want that, I may pop them in if I'm walking home from the Metro but other than that they stay in my pocket or on my desk