Grand Central new Class 820 IET units.

[800001]

Not building the bodies anymore following the 810 fiasco?

Could be first of class done in Japan like they did with other fleets?

Edit - post edited to include 2 pictures, taken my a friend (happy to allow me to share in here), showing a wrapped up driving car and a label stating car 5, 895001.

Further to that. A source at Aycliffe factory has stated to me Grand Central units are not due into production until May 2027, and all shells will be coming from Japan!

 

[vuzzeho]

Could be first of class done in Japan like they did with other fleets?

Edit - post edited to include 2 pictures, taken my a friend (happy to allow me to share in here), showing a wrapped up driving car and a label stating car 5, 895001.

Further to that. A source at Aycliffe factory has stated to me Grand Central units are not due into production until May 2027, and all shells will be coming from Japan!

895001 isn't an 895?

 

[Doveymain158]

895001 isn't an 895?

895 is the Class allocated to HS2 sets

 

[pokemonsuper9]

895001 isn't an 895?

I don't think it could be, since the sign on it calls it Car No. 5 and it is clearly an end car.
895s are 8 car units so only car 1 and 8 would be end units.


Class 803s for example are
803001 - 841001,842001,843001,844001,845001
so it's pretty reasonable for 895001 to be the 5th carriage of 820001 (with 891001, 892001, 893001, 894001 being the others)

 

[800001]

895001 isn't an 895?

It isn't the unit number, it is the carriage number!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: Yesterday at 08:20 ==

895 is the Class allocated to HS2 sets

And this carriage is not an 895, the number is the carriage number eh 891001, 892001, 893001, 894001 and 895001 for what ever the number or this unit is.

895001 depicts car 5 of this unit.

 

[Peter Sarf]

895001 isn't an 895?

This (895001) does raise the spectre of a coach number in one class of unit (5th/end coach of unit 820001) being the actual unit number of another class of unit (895001) ?.

So - is 895001 an actual coach number ?.

 

[norbitonflyer]

This (895001) does raise the spectre of a coach number in one class of unit (5th/end coach of unit 820001) being the actual unit number of another class of unit (895001) ?.

Quite common;
Some coach numbers on class 331 duplicate unit numbers of class 466
Some coach numbers on class 385 duplicate unit numbers of class 444
Some coach numbers on class 701 duplicate unit numbers of class 484
Some coach numbers on class 717 duplicated unit numbers of class 456
Some coach numbers on class 720 duplicate unit numbers of class 450
Some coach numbers on class 745 duplicated unit numbers of class 332

Makes you wonder why it was necessary to renumber thousands of carriages of DMU and hauled stock in the 1980s

 

[Snow1964]

Quite common;
Some coach numbers on class 331 duplicate unit numbers of class 466
Some coach numbers on class 385 duplicate unit numbers of class 444
Some coach numbers on class 701 duplicate unit numbers of class 484
Some coach numbers on class 717 duplicated unit numbers of class 456
Some coach numbers on class 720 duplicate unit numbers of class 450
Some coach numbers on class 745 duplicated unit numbers of class 332

Makes you wonder why it was necessary to renumber thousands of carriages of DMU and hauled stock in the 1980s

At the time computers could only handle 5 digits.
Every coach, locomotive, DMU and EMU vehicle had unique number (although they were occasionally accidental duplicates), even limited use vehicles like Royal train were in the sequence, from memory (0)29xx, leading zeros were not painted.

Nowadays they are 6 digit numbers (or even whole European number) but only last 5 digits are usually shown, so I suspect the full number is different

 

[bnsf734]

Probably because the computer systems then couldn't cope with duplication of numbers but 40 odd years on systems have improved?

 

[trainlogger]

Could be first of class done in Japan like they did with other fleets?

Edit - post edited to include 2 pictures, taken my a friend (happy to allow me to share in here), showing a wrapped up driving car and a label stating car 5, 895001.

Further to that. A source at Aycliffe factory has stated to me Grand Central units are not due into production until May 2027, and all shells will be coming from Japan!

Just wondering - the labels in the pictures say "FOA PROJECT" and "FOA" - could those initials perhaps imply that this shell is for "Firstgroup Open Access" fleet rather than the GC 820 fleet?

 

[Snow1964]

Just wondering - the labels in the pictures say "FOA PROJECT" and "FOA" - could those initials perhaps imply that this shell is for "Firstgroup Open Access" fleet rather than the GC 820 fleet?

First Group (Lumo brand) ordered 14 trains December 2024 (22 months ago) for first delivery late 2027, so timeframe fits.

Further to that. A source at Aycliffe factory has stated to me Grand Central units are not due into production until May 2027

Arriva (Grand Central brand) ordered 4 months later (April 2025) so the Grand Central batch commencing Spring 2027 also seems logical timescale

 

[800001]

This (895001) does raise the spectre of a coach number in one class of unit (5th/end coach of unit 820001) being the actual unit number of another class of unit (895001) ?.

So - is 895001 an actual coach number ?.

Yes it is a coach number, not a unit number.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: Yesterday at 11:12 ==

First Group (Lumo brand) ordered 14 trains December 2024 (22 months ago) for first delivery late 2027, so timeframe fits.


Arriva (Grand Central brand) ordered 4 months later (April 2025) so the Grand Central batch commencing Spring 2027 also seems logical timescale

Yea, just noticed it does say 'FOA' on the label so yes that would fit with these been Lumo/first group carriages

So apologies for posting in the GC thread.

 

[norbitonflyer]

At the time computers could only handle 5 digits.
Every coach, locomotive, DMU and EMU vehicle had unique number (although they were occasionally accidental duplicates), even limited use vehicles like Royal train were in the sequence, from memory (0)29xx, leading zeros were not painted.

Indeed. Wholesale renumbering of several hundred DMU cars to avoid duplication of fewer than 200 class 50s and 56s. Also hauled stock in the 25xxx, 26xxx, 81xxx and 86xxx ranges despite many of the numbers not corresponding to a locomotive, and of those that did, all but a handful had already been withdrawn.

Later, common sense prevailed and only dmu cars that actually duplicated new class 59 or 60 locomotives were renumbered, and class numbers that duplicated coaching stock ranges were avoided (hence no classes 61-65 or 94-96)

Nowadays they are 6 digit numbers (or even whole European number) but only last 5 digits are usually shown, so I suspect the full number is different

Most older carriages still have 5-digit car numbers. The first to have 6-digit ones were, I believe the class 387s in 2016

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: Yesterday at 11:13 ==

 

[Rick1984]

Just read that the proposed Cleethorpes services plans have been withdrawn

 

[Peter Sarf]

Yes it is a coach number, not a unit number.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: Yesterday at 11:12 ==


Yea, just noticed it does say 'FOA' on the label so yes that would fit with these been Lumo/first group carriages

So apologies for posting in the GC thread.

Never mind but perhaps we need a thread just for Newton Aylcliffe. To cover all sorts.

Cheeky thought - maybe the vehicles from Japan are replacements sneaked in for the mysterious 810002 !.

 

[Pete_uk]

Are these a descendant of the original 800 family or the 810 cousins?

 

[Snow1964]

Are these a descendant of the original 800 family or the 810 cousins?

The 80x family, closer to 803 or 805
But with some updates

No one in their right mind would order the troublesome 810 version when the 26m versions work ok

 

[800001]

Are these a descendant of the original 800 family or the 810 cousins?

The 8XX 26m family. The difference being these with be tri-mode, diesel, electric and battery I believe.

 

[Snow1964]

The 8XX 26m family. The difference being these with be tri-mode, diesel, electric and battery I believe.

At time of ordering was described as 14 trains (and 13 options).
The 14 trains would be mix of diesel bimode and battery electric. The split between types was not stated. None of the First (Lumo) were described as tri-mode.

The Arriva (Grand Central) order was described as tri-mode so can presumably has both battery and diesel on each unit

 

[800001]

At time of ordering was described as 14 trains (and 13 options).
The 14 trains would be mix of diesel bimode and battery electric. The split between types was not stated. None of the First (Lumo) were described as tri-mode.

The Arriva (Grand Central) order was described as tri-mode so can presumably has both battery and diesel on each unit

I am referring to GC units which is what the thread is about.