Grand Central new Class 820 IET units.

[stadler]

I can not find a thread for these so i thought it was worth starting one to discuss the construction and delivery and introduction of these units.

It looks like the new Grand Central IET units have been given the Class 820 classification very recently.

British Rail Class 820 - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Grand Central tweaks Cleethorpes plan - confirms class number of tri-mode sets

Open access operator makes minor adjustment to its application for new London Kings Cross-Cleethorpes services.

www.railmagazine.com

Grand Central tweaks Cleethorpes plan - confirms class number of tri-mode sets

By David Stubbings

17 March 2026

Grand Central has modified its application to run direct services between London Kings Cross and Cleethorpes.

The open access operator first applied to run four return services to the Lincolnshire town in March 2025, also calling at Scunthorpe, Habrough and Grimsby.

It has proposed services would join existing services between London and Doncaster, where they would split/join.

Grand Central (GC) has now updated its application to include Barnetby on all services and additional Peterborough stops (two Monday-Saturday and one on Sunday).

It has also confirmed Class 180 diesel multiple units would be used until the arrival of tri-mode units, now designated as Class 820.

Nine five-car sets were ordered in spring last year with the first expected in 2028.

GC has said that if it secures access rights until 2038 (in line with its Bradford and Sunderland routes) then it would order two more ‘820s’.

In its application form to the Office of Rail and Road (ORR), the operator said, if approved, it would look to hire to more Class 180s from December 2026 until the Hitachi-built replacements are ready. Angel Trains currently owns four ‘180s’which are off lease.

GC also said it had held “extensive discussions” with Network Rail, (NR) adding: “It is the belief of GC that there are no issues preventing the introduction of these proposed services.”

It said NR had advised it wasn’t responding in support or otherwise yet.

“We look forward to receiving NR's feedback in due course and are confident the robust approach to our application will see us pre-emptively answer any concerns that NR does raise directly with the ORR.”

One area thought to be of concern is the idea of trains dividing/joining at Doncaster.

While GC has said this will mean no more paths are needed on the East Coast Main Line, it said in its P Form it recognised the potential risk but “will work closely with NR on detailed contingency arrangements to ensure any delay is minimised”.

GC continued: “In advance of that detailed work, we have set out our suggested process for the splitting and joining, and also contingency planning in a document attached to our application.”

I am surprised they have skipped straight to 820 instead of 804 or 806 or 808 or 809 which are all still available. But i suppose classifications are always quite random now. You never know what they will choose.

Does anyone know whether the Hitachi factory have started construction of these new Grand Central units yet.

 

[_toommm_]

No pay wall, you just need to log in:

Grand Central has modified its application to run direct services between London Kings Cross and Cleethorpes.

The open access operator first applied to run four return services to the Lincolnshire town in March 2025, also calling at Scunthorpe, Habrough and Grimsby.

It has proposed services would join existing services between London and Doncaster, where they would split/join.

Grand Central (GC) has now updated its application to include Barnetby on all services and additional Peterborough stops (two Monday-Saturday and one on Sunday).

It has also confirmed Class 180 diesel multiple units would be used until the arrival of tri-mode units, now designated as Class 820.

Nine five-car sets were ordered in spring last year with the first expected in 2028.

GC has said that if it secures access rights until 2038 (in line with its Bradford and Sunderland routes) then it would order two more ‘820s’.

In its application form to the Office of Rail and Road (ORR), the operator said, if approved, it would look to hire to more Class 180s from December 2026 until the Hitachi-built replacements are ready. Angel Trains currently owns four ‘180s’which are off lease.

GC also said it had held “extensive discussions” with Network Rail, (NR) adding: “It is the belief of GC that there are no issues preventing the introduction of these proposed services.”

It said NR had advised it wasn’t responding in support or otherwise yet.

“We look forward to receiving NR's feedback indue course and are confident the robust approach to our application will see us pre-emptively answer any concerns that NR does raise directly with the ORR.”

One area thought to be of concern is the idea of trains dividing/joining at Doncaster.

While GC has said this will mean no more paths are needed on the East Coast Main Line, it said in its P Form it recognised the potential risk but “will work closely with NR on detailed contingency arrangements to ensure any delay is minimised”.

GC continued: “In advance of that detailed work, we have set out our suggested process for the splitting and joining, and also contingency planning in a document attached to our application.”

 

[stadler]

No pay wall, you just need to log in:

Thank you for that. What an odd setup. I know many sites have paywalls but i have never heard of a site that lets you view it for free but only if you sign up. Why not just make visible for all. At least we can see the content of the article now.

So the order is for 9x 820s but they will increase the order to 11x 820s if access rights are approved. I am not sure if 11x 820s will be enough to replace all of the 14x 180s once the Cleethorpes service starts. I wonder if the order could be further increased in the future.

It looks like the plan is for attaching and dividing the 820s at Doncaster once the new Cleethorpes service starts. This may well be the first timetabled attaching and dividing of IETs in passenger service. The article also seems to confirm that Grand Central want to take on the remaining four 180s until the 820s are ready.

No details about the interior yet or what type if seats will be used. I presume one carriage will be first class. It is also not clear if a buffet counter will be installed on the 820s or if they will just use a trolley.

Also are these normal longer length IET carriages like the 800/801/802/803/805/807 units or shorter ones like the 810 units? The fact that they classified it as an 820 makes me wonder if the carriage length is different? I think that is the reason that EMR changed the classification from 804 to 810 before introduction?

 

[Bletchleyite]

They appear from the pictures to be standard 26m units in terms of the body shell. The shorter 810s have a different nose and fewer windows.

 

[quantinghome]

If feels like quite a waste of limited capacity to be ordering 5 car trains, but fair enough if they are consistent in running them paired up from KX to Doncaster.

 

[brad465]

It looks like the plan is for attaching and dividing the 820s at Doncaster once the new Cleethorpes service starts. This may well be the first timetabled attaching and dividing of IETs in passenger service. The article also seems to confirm that Grand Central want to take on the remaining four 180s until the 820s are ready.

GWR split and join 5-car units regularly at Swansea for Carmarthen trains, and often at Plymouth as well for 10-car Penzance services. Granted in these cases a 5-car terminates/starts at said splitting/attaching location, but it's still timetabled.

 

[D6130]

Do LNER not also couple/uncouple 5 car units at Leeds on some of the Harrogate services?

 

[Alfie1014]

It looks like the plan is for attaching and dividing the 820s at Doncaster once the new Cleethorpes service starts. This may well be the first timetabled attaching and dividing of IETs in passenger service. The article also seems to confirm that Grand Central want to take on the remaining four 180s until the 820s.

GWR 800s and 802s have divided and attached at Plymouth since introduction and AWC 805s divide and attach at Crewe and Chester.

 

[D365]

I can not find a thread for these so i thought it was worth starting one to discuss the construction and delivery and introduction of these units.

It looks like the new Grand Central IET units have been given the Class 820 classification very recently.

Just for completeness, the previous Grand Central Hitachi thread is here.

 

[rick pike]

Well at least the route to Cleethorpes is cleared for 820s. Thanks must go to LNER for their test runs the other year. Especially now that the LNER plans have been scrapped.

 

[YorksLad12]

I am surprised they have skipped straight to 820 instead of 804 or 806 or 808 or 809 which are all still available. But i suppose classifications are always quite random now. You never know what they will choose.

Fairly random, but also a case of not using a number that was previously allocated (804) for a while. Same thing used to happen with telephone numbers. There may also be internal (mechanical) differences or upgrades to the 80x sets. In Ye Olden Days we'd have 800, 801, 810 and lots of sub-classes

 

[Narrowgauge725]

Do LNER not also couple/uncouple 5 car units at Leeds on some of the Harrogate services?

There was a plan to join Harrogate and Huddersfield 5 car units, but the Huddersfield service never got beyond the route learning stage before it was killed off

 

[pokemonsuper9]

replace all of the 14x 180s

Grand Central only have 10 180s, and 2 221s, so 11 820s replacing 12 DMUs.

 

[Segedunum]

Do LNER not also couple/uncouple 5 car units at Leeds on some of the Harrogate services?

The evening Skipton gets to Leeds as a 10-car, then five detach there and go to Doncaster Carr.

 

[wickham]

Fairly random, but also a case of not using a number that was previously allocated (804) for a while. Same thing used to happen with telephone numbers. There may also be internal (mechanical) differences or upgrades to the 80x sets. In Ye Olden Days we'd have 800, 801, 810 and lots of sub-classes

You are correct about not being able to use a number that has already been allocated even if the build did not come to fruition for a set period of time, possibly 5 years?


This is to avoid any confusion with paperwork or data that might still be live. It is also the case nowadays that the unit number and carriage numbers tie up in that they all end in the same final digits. If the rolling stock library can not find a suitable selection of vacant numbers that tie up they will look for another selection, bearing in mind that the six-figure numbers being used now were freight stock numbers under BR and some of the batches may still be live. It only needs one number in a whole string to be still in use from a previous allocation to mess up the whole plan and the five-year rule applies to this too.

 

[Trainman40083]

They are 820s probably because they are different to earlier builds. Aren't they trimode?

 

[stadler]

Grand Central only have 10 180s, and 2 221s, so 11 820s replacing 12 DMUs.

The article states that Grand Central are taking the remaining four 180s that are currently in storage. I presume that the 221s will get withdrawn and hopefully go to Cross Country once this happens. So it will be 11x 820s replacing 14x 180s meaning they will have three less units.

 

[pokemonsuper9]

They are 820s probably because they are different to earlier builds. Aren't they trimode?

Yes, as will FirstGroups'.

 

[ainsworth74]

The article states that Grand Central are taking the remaining four 180s that are currently in storage. I presume that the 221s will get withdrawn and hopefully go to Cross Country once this happens. So it will be 11x 820s replacing 14x 180s meaning they will have three less units.

Yes but 180 reliability is so dreadful that I can well believe that 11 820s will be sufficient to cover the work of 14 180s.

 

[Kite159]

And I would imagine a 5 coach '820' will have quite a few extra seats compared to a 180 (and hopefully, the overhead luggage racks will be more usable as the racks on a 180 are a bit on the small side).

(As for GC getting those former EMR/Hull trains units, considering they have been sat around at Ely for 2+ years, I would imagine the reliability will be even worse than the existing batch!)

 

[Merle Haggard]

Yes but 180 reliability is so dreadful that I can well believe that 11 820s will be sufficient to cover the work of 14 180s.

The East Midlands have experienced first hand the 'reliability' of both 180s and 8xx (810s) for comparison.
It's a low bar...

 

[ainsworth74]

Today for instance it appears that of their available twelve units that they have on hand they were using:

221142
221143
180103
180105
180106
180107
180112

So seven of the available twelve units and only five of the allegedly ten 180s that they have on hand.

Yesterday they were using:

221142
221143
180103
180105
180106
180112
180114

Again seven of the available twelve units and five of the the ten 180s.

Someone will no doubt be able to confirm but I would assume that GC currently only need seven units each day to cover their existing services. But the reliability of the 180s is so dreadful that it takes twelve units including two of a different class (that are getting hammered every day) to actually run the service.

Nine 820s would therefore seem to be more than enough and and extra pair for the Cleethorpes service making eleven would also seem to be plenty.

 

[357]

(that are getting hammered every day)

If there ever needs to be an advertisement for how good Voyagers are from a reliability point of view - it is the GC Voyager operation. The same two units provide 75% of the Bradford service, 6 days a week, with very little complaint.

 

[Transilien]

It's a shame that they didn't go for the new nose design like the 810s had, which IMO looks nicer than the standard IET front end.

 

[hexagon789]

It's a shame that they didn't go for the new nose design like the 810s had, which IMO looks nicer than the standard IET front end.

The 810s have that only because of the shorter car length (24m) I understood?

 

[357]

It's a shame that they didn't go for the new nose design like the 810s had, which IMO looks nicer than the standard IET front end.

It is not an updated design - it is a different design as part of the work to reduce the length of each coach

 

[trawler]

Where will these new trains be maintained? I cannot see Crofton. Heaton?

 

[Sheridan]

With regard to class numbers and their allocation, I remember someone from Avanti saying (I think on a Geoff Marshall video?) that it wasn’t exactly a coincidence that the 805s are 5-car and the 807s are 7-car. There clearly is still quite a bit of scope in the 8xx range!

 

[rattyben]

And I would imagine a 5 coach '820' will have quite a few extra seats compared to a 180 (and hopefully, the overhead luggage racks will be more usable as the racks on a 180 are a bit on the small side).

(As for GC getting those former EMR/Hull trains units, considering they have been sat around at Ely for 2+ years, I would imagine the reliability will be even worse than the existing batch!)

The interior condition of those EMR 180s is dreadful and that’s saying something given that the Grand Central units aren’t in the best state either.

I can’t imagine they’ll get much of a refurb for sake of a couple years of use.

 

[19Gnasher69]

Someone will no doubt be able to confirm but I would assume that GC currently only need seven units each day to cover their existing services. But the reliability of the 180s is so dreadful that it takes twelve units including two of a different class (that are getting hammered every day) to actually run the service.

I haven’t monitored the 180s’ recent performance but has it settled down? A year or so ago they seemed to fail regularly but I don’t recall reading about anything untoward over the past few months.
Is GC simply giving the units which aren’t diagrammed more TLC as a preventative measure?
Or am I being too optimistic??